Base Cabba stronger than ssj3 Gotenks?

[Jaden]

If Copy-Vegeta has the same amount of power Vegeta has and Gotenks as a ssj3 couldn't scratch him, does that mean Cabba in his base form is stronger than ssj3 Gotenks? Because IIRC Vegeta said they're equal in their base forms during their fight in the tournament.

Or was Copy-Vegeta using Vegeta's Saiyan Beyond God form as his base and not Vegeta's regular non-god-ki base form? This could explain it, right?

Other than that , I don't see the logic in it.. a saiyan in base form who wasn't even aware of a super saiyan is stronger than a ssj3 ..but then again, Super is full of plotholes.

Any ideas?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I don't think you need to look at this logically. Super doesn't make sense in general.

But yeah, Base Cabba is above Gotenks and most of the guys from the Boo saga.

[LowRyder2005]

Possibly. But yeah, I second Super Saiyan 4 Turlast's suggestion: don't get too scientific; Super doesn't take it itself too seriously.
My main gripe and the reason I keep Cabbe in the lower end of the spectrum is that in the fight against Vegeta, it pretty much looks like his first goal is to have Cabbe learn Super Saiyan and then win the match.
Adding how he effortlessly tanks SS Cabbe's hits when he - supposedly - gets a little more serious as a SS himself, I wouldn't be surprised if he could've mandhandled SS Cabbe in base all along.

The only tidbit of information we have available is that Cabbe regards Frost as the better hand-to-hand fighter. He is most likely referring to a form which is not his Final: Frost says that he kept it sealed for "a long time"; since one race possesses a pretty long lifespan and Cabbe more or less looks like a teen, it's very possible that with "a long time" he meant long before Cabbe was ever born.

So I'd put Base Cabbe somewhere above First Form Frost and Piccolo, but still weaker than Base Vegeta (and even SS3 Gotenks). Super Saiyan Cabbe slightly above Base (Buutenks tier), way stronger than Gotenks SS3, but still way behind Vegeta's regular Super Saiyan.

[pacz360]

Theres a lot shit doesn't makes sense in db period but the point is yes base cabba is stronger than ssj3 gotenks people need to understand buu saga tier fighters are fodders at this point.

[pacz360]

Possibly. But yeah, I second Super Saiyan 4 Turlast's suggestion: don't get too scientific; Super doesn't take it itself too seriously.
Now, I'll preface that I have SS Cabbe around as strong as SS3 (Z anime) Goku right now.
My main gripe and the reason I keep him in the lower end of the spectrum is that in the fight against Vegeta, it pretty much looks like his first goal is to have Cabbe learn Super Saiyan and then win the match.
Adding how he effortlessly tanks SS Cabbe's hits when he - supposedly - gets a little more serious, I wouldn't be surprised if he could've mandhandled SS Cabbe in base all along.

The only tidbit of information we have available is that Cabbe regards Frost as the better hand-to-hand fighter. He is most likely referring to a form which is not his Final: Frost says that he kept it sealed for "a long time"; since one race possesses a pretty long lifespan and Cabbe more or less looks like a teen, it's very possible that with "a long time" he meant long before Cabbe was ever born.

So I'd put Base Cabbe somewhere above First Form Frost and Piccolo, but still weaker than Base Vegeta (and even SS3 Gotenks). Super Saiyan Cabbe slightly above Base (Buutenks tier), way stronger than Gotenks SS3, but still way behind Vegeta's regular Super Saiyan.

Vegeta himself said that cabba equal to his base form at this point base goku and vegeta have more evidence that supports them being stronger than most fighters in the buu saga.

[LowRyder2005]

Possibly. But yeah, I second Super Saiyan 4 Turlast's suggestion: don't get too scientific; Super doesn't take it itself too seriously.
Now, I'll preface that I have SS Cabbe around as strong as SS3 (Z anime) Goku right now.
My main gripe and the reason I keep him in the lower end of the spectrum is that in the fight against Vegeta, it pretty much looks like his first goal is to have Cabbe learn Super Saiyan and then win the match.
Adding how he effortlessly tanks SS Cabbe's hits when he - supposedly - gets a little more serious, I wouldn't be surprised if he could've mandhandled SS Cabbe in base all along.

The only tidbit of information we have available is that Cabbe regards Frost as the better hand-to-hand fighter. He is most likely referring to a form which is not his Final: Frost says that he kept it sealed for "a long time"; since one race possesses a pretty long lifespan and Cabbe more or less looks like a teen, it's very possible that with "a long time" he meant long before Cabbe was ever born.

So I'd put Base Cabbe somewhere above First Form Frost and Piccolo, but still weaker than Base Vegeta (and even SS3 Gotenks). Super Saiyan Cabbe slightly above Base (Buutenks tier), way stronger than Gotenks SS3, but still way behind Vegeta's regular Super Saiyan.

Vegeta himself said that cabba equal to his base form at this point base goku and vegeta have more evidence that supports them being stronger than most fighters in the buu saga.

And Vegeta himself disproves this idea about them being even in Base when he tanks Super Saiyan Cabbe's hits.
If they were equal in base, they'd have to be equal in Super Saiyan form, yet Vegeta is far ahead of him as a Super Saiyan.

It's very reasonable to believe that Vegeta was just bluffing. I mean, first off we know for certain that Vegeta was taking it very easy, Cabbe is seen surviving hits when Vegeta is supposed to be exactly 50 times stronger than him, just saying.

[Nejishiki]

Why would their Super Saiyan forms have to be equal? Cabba only learned how to do it in about five minutes. He's hardly as experienced as Vegeta is with handling it and I can't see it in his personality to praise another Saiyan without basis.

[LowRyder2005]

Why would their Super Saiyan forms have to be equal? Cabba only learned how to do it in about five minutes. He's hardly as experienced as Vegeta is with handling it and I can't see it in his personality to praise another Saiyan without basis.

Well, I'm just following the databooks ad litteram here. The databooks expressly say that the Super Saiyan multiplier is a *50 for everyone.
Incidentally, after his "we're evenly matched" Vegeta remarks that Base Cabbe is so weak he shouldn't have even entered the tournament and I doubt he sees himself in Base form, Piccolo or Buu as "too weak to enter the tournament".
Of course, it could be some kind of motivational drill sergeant's talk, but I don't really see an issue in Vegeta lying about he and Cabbe being evenly matched in base as well.

[Hugo Boss]

My theory is that while Cabba & Vegeta's Galick Guns may have the same power output, Cabba's body is less strong and resistent than Vegeta's, explaining why Vegeta doesn't have any problem in taking attacks. But to take a kick in the neck like Copy-Vegeta did, I think Cabba probably could do better.

[SaiyaSith]

Vegeta could have just been training Cabba the entire match. It's very similar to what Goku did with Uub.

[Kuririn Fan]

I love it when people say that Super doesn't make sense, as if power levels in Z made all the sense and Toriyama did the manga with calculator, carefully calculating all this bullshit, and not just for the money and to entertain young boys. Yeah, it makes sense, it's all about the power levels.

[BitchIlooklikeGoku]

How the hell did Cabba get such a high base when he couldn't even turn SSJ ?

Cabba didn't have a tail either and in Daizenshuu they said tailess half breeds tend to have amazing potential. I wonder if the saiyans of Universe 6 are all tailless and have amazing potential (i.e. they have Freeza level stats at a young age).

[generalred3]

The way I think of it (and try making sense out of it) is that in the Buu arc, Gohan was stronger than Gotenks ( I think). In Super, Gohan hasn't trained and had a huge power decrease. If Goten and Trunks haven't been training just like Gohan, wouldn't they receive the same decrease. All 3 have stopped training so maybe Gotenks is even weaker the Super's Gohan. Just a thought.

Also, Cabba could be very strong without turning SSJ. It seems (atleast in the series) pure blooded saiyans transform after they experience a large amount of rage. I guess it is different for half saiyans since they can just be born with it. But atleast this is what I use to explain to myself how Cabba can be so strong without transforming yet.

[Lord Beerus]

Out Of Universe answer: Characters in Super are as strong as the plot needs them to be

In Universe answer: Cabba's baseline power, along with the baseline power of possibly a good majority of the Saiyan race in Universe 6, is much than that of the Saiyans in Universe 7. And it is alluded to with Cabba stating that the Saiyan race "evolved" in his universe.

[Bullza]

He was chosen to take part in the Tournament so he would have to be incredibly strong. It's not really a plot hole that he's stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.

[Zephyr]

If the U6 Saiyans never went Super Saiyan, they'd be able to continue racking up zenkai boosts, right?

[Tectorman]

My take on Cabba being as strong as he is is that it's the difference between the mostly villainous U7 Saiyans and the heroic U6 Saiyans. U7 Saiyans were thugs and brutes so the idea of five good-hearted Saiyans contributing their power to a sixth to make him incredibly stronger and hopefully not turn on the poor saps who just helped him attain god-like power is so rare that it had only happened once before and was known only to the Oracle Fish and Shenron. U6 Saiyans having a greater tendency to be heroic would lead to U7's "awesome and rare SSJG ritual" being more their "standard operating procedure". And while not all of them would have Goku's genius ability to make SSJG's power his own, the Law of Large Numbers says that it would still happen sometimes, given enough attempts. So I think that Cabba was, at one point, the recipient of a SSJG ritual that he was, to some extent, able to make his own. Not as much as Goku or Vegeta, though, so maybe mastery of SSJ helps with the process.

[Big Black Sayian]

Because why wouldn't he be? Not like Gotenks has ever been useful. :p

[Friezacooler]

Universe 6 characters are weak but are made to look strong for plot purposes, the Creators don't care about Power levels anymore and
Hate pretty much anything that is not Goku lol.

[TekTheNinja]

The answer is bad writing. That's pretty much it.