Zamasu. Hero or Main Villain of next arc? *Spoiler*

[TRL]

Toriyama once before designed a green dude with a white mohawk. It was back in 1997 when he designed characters for the fighting game Tobal.
Meet Mark. This also marks the first time he used Mark as a pun on Akuman (devil)(pun intended I guess xP)



Now that I delved into that game again, I came to the conclusion Beerus kinda has a previous appearing in that game too!
Emperor Udon is the final boss in the tournament mode and he's also a fighting cat/bunny.



Just wanted to throw that out there. Please proceed.

[ChronoTwigger]

Zamasu == Magus from CronoTrigger.
So, indeed, a guy with a tragic past that want to "retcon" things by destroy everything (=kill Zeno).
But Sayan, the universes fighters for justice (in other universes, right) stop his plan, so he decide to exterminate all of them in the past by using the strongest guy (Goku) controlled via magic.

Ok, too complex for Super, but whatever. Let me dream.

[MaGyunia]

Remember, Black is seen travelling back in time and using his ring. It's additional "proof" that he has innate or acquired powers that go beyond mere fighting prowess or hugely large Ki, he's probably on par with the most powerful dities in terms of time, space and reality manipulation.

Let's not forget Black is shown speaking with someone as soon as he uses his ring.

I think he's talking to himself, isn't he?
I just wonder, if Black is an experienced time traveller, he shouldn't be surprised by Trunks vanishing..maybe it's not as simple like that.

I'm a little bit surprised at the fact that someone apparently as insanely powerful as Black (both fighting-wise and in terms of reality manipulation, apparently) didn't wipe out Mirai no Trunks in a flash already in the future timeline. If he, or whoever it is behind him or his creation and his secrets and his immense power, is powerful enough to mean a threat to the entire universe, which contains "only" SSJB Goku, SSJB Vegeta, Beerus, Whis, Vados, Champa, let alone any Kaioshin, he could have wiped out the entire Earth in a blink of a second instead of having it in ruins for such a long time and even allowing Trunks to escape. Remember, Beerus can wipe out an entire planet with a finger, and he has enough power to destroy the entire universe easily (any villain since Cell has become powerful enough to destroy the entire universe given enough time, variating depending on who it is and how powerful they are), and we seem to be introduced to Black as a menace even to Beerus. Or maybe Beerus won't play an active role in fighting him, or he just won't care.

Maybe Black enjoys playing around a little bit, although he did seem a little annoyed and surprised at Trunks' escape back in time.

I would say that for more than one obvious reason Black isn't THAT omnipowerful and he'll be taken on by Goku (and Vegeta). I just want to know if Goku (and Vegeta) will have to reach yet another stage by acquiring a new "type" of power (beyond fighting ability), like reality and time manipulation, which is the degree we need to be dealing with at this point, or just how Black will eventually be defeated. But make no mistake, it will be Goku who will the honors in the end somehow.

I just hope they take this excellent and fantastic opportunity that the concept of Black so far presents - at least in terms of how he looks, sounds and acts, and how powerful he appears to be -, among other concepts in this new arc, and don't screw it up in terms of plot, and stretch it just right instead of making it either too short or too long.

And I'd say Black was "created" more than something or some level of power or state of existence someone reached. And that involves someone else behind him. But all of this is pure speculation, this time around, unlike before, they actually learned and kept the secrets of the future events of this arc as hidden as possible, to the point where we actually need to watch the episodes as they unfold and air to know what's gonna happen. We have virtually no information on who or what Black is and what's going on and what surrounds his existence and came to being. And that's good, even if it means suffering a lot while waiting for the next episode(s). We really can only speculate, but there really isn't much, if anything at all, to come up with a solid theory for his existence, nothing to base ourselves upon. Only pure speculation and debate over something which could turn out to be a complete surprise to anyone. Wouldn't the a first.

[ryou766]

Remember, Black is seen travelling back in time and using his ring. It's additional "proof" that he has innate or acquired powers that go beyond mere fighting prowess or hugely large Ki, he's probably on par with the most powerful dities in terms of time, space and reality manipulation.

Let's not forget Black is shown speaking with someone as soon as he uses his ring.

I think he's talking to himself, isn't he?

Spoiler:

You can make out a silhouette emitting from the rings ray. Immediately after that, we get a shot of Black speaking to presumably whomever he summoned.

My guess is that this is Zamasu who he's talking to.

[Hellspawn28]

I hope he is a bad guy, We never had a evil Kai before and it would be nice to have one.

[Araki]

Spoiler:

You can make out a silhouette emitting from the rings ray. Immediately after that, we get a shot of Black speaking to presumably whomever he summoned.

My guess is that this is Zamasu who he's talking to.

I think he's not summoning anyone, but the ring is connecting to wherever Trunks is and opening a rift. We'll see...

[ryou766]

I've thought about that and it could be possible. We could also be misled into believing that the big "Black vs Goku and company" brawl will happen next weekend. It might be Black arriving to THEIR timeline to deliver a message/warning. But as you said, we'll have to wait and see.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I'm not sure whether he is good or evil...but I did notice one funny thing. I don't think it means anything but if it's an accident its pretty funny to me:

The earrings Zamasu wears are orange...now obviously Goku isn't literally orange but what color is the uniform of Goku? Orange.

The earring Black wears is green. What color is Zamasu? Green.

[Alee9977]

Zamasu having a name is pretty weird, I mean, I dont remember other Kaioshins having a name, we have the kaioshin from universe 7, universe 6, of time, and no one has a name, so, I think he used to be a kaioshin and now he is a villain.
Also I don't think they are going to introduce Zamasu for at least 10 episodes more, this arc seems its going to last a good amount of episodes, and wont end in 10 episodes like the others.

[MaGyunia]

Going back to the question of which this thread consists, I'd say he's simply a Kaioshin of another Universe other than the 6th or 7th ones, hence a good guy. I couldn't call him a "hero", as you can't really call the Kaioshin's actions during the Majin Buu arc - let alone after that - heroic at all, both because of unwillingness and because of incapacity to do anything to stop stronger villains.

[Retan]

Maybe Zamasu is manipulating Black Goku somehow and speaking through him, and hates saiyans for some reason, and will eventually destroy Black Goku after everyone else?

[Nejishiki]

Zamasu having a name is pretty weird, I mean, I dont remember other Kaioshins having a name, we have the kaioshin from universe 7, universe 6, of time, and no one has a name, so, I think he used to be a kaioshin and now he is a villain.
Also I don't think they are going to introduce Zamasu for at least 10 episodes more, this arc seems its going to last a good amount of episodes, and wont end in 10 episodes like the others.

Before she became the Kaioshin of Time, her name was revealed to be Chronoa in the past, just to note the single precedence before Zamasu.

[ryou766]

We're all blind. Clearly the mastermind behind all this is the announcer for the U6/U7 tournament.

[dbgtFO]

We're all blind. Clearly the mastermind behind all this is the announcer for the U6/U7 tournament.

By the way, anyone know, if he has the same voice actor as the announcer for the Earth tournaments?

Zamasu having a name is pretty weird, I mean, I dont remember other Kaioshins having a name, we have the kaioshin from universe 7, universe 6, of time, and no one has a name, so, I think he used to be a kaioshin and now he is a villain.
Also I don't think they are going to introduce Zamasu for at least 10 episodes more, this arc seems its going to last a good amount of episodes, and wont end in 10 episodes like the others.

I think Zamasu will be introduced in the next episode or the one after that, now that we will have some time spent with Black thinking what his next move is going to be(Toriyama always introduces his characters accompanied by another, so Black should reveal his accomplice or some person accompanying him for whatever reason).

So yeah, I think Zamasu is an evil Kaioshin or at least antagonistic Kaioshin and I like the theory of him being one of the Kaioshin of one of the universes Zeno destroyed in the past, now seeking his revenge.
Basically I'm all on board on this being a more elaborate take on Toyble's AF story with Black being the stand in for Xicor and Zamasu being the stand in for Lila, the West Kaioshin.
Zamasu in this respect could be rebelling against Zeno, because of his feeling of unfairness at seeing his universe destroyed due to actions of a minority of the population(perhaps Saiyans pissing off Zeno, thus explaining his disdain for Saiyans?).

He took on the name of Zamasu to demonstrate that he wasn't just a nameless being, that's just part of Zeno's order of the universes, but rather a guy, who doesn't have to be bogged down by his so-called role. If I recall correctly his name translates to "to be/to exist" so it's definitely set up for it to be a meaningful name, in the vein of telling us, that he is a living being, they have a right to exist, not just as Zeno's playthings, but as their own individual beings.
I don't know, if it's starting to enter angst territory, but I do think this villain will be more complex, than what we have got up till now. At least I hope so!

[MaGyunia]

I hope he is a bad guy, We never had a evil Kai before and it would be nice to have one.

According to official info, extremely rare occurrences of magical beings who are born evil from the fruit in the Kai original planet gain/are born with an entire different physique and physical characteristics, like Dabura or any other of the Makaioshin. Zamasu looks too much like a normal Kaioshin, I think there's no need to invent too much here. And again, we do see him falling over apparently dead in the opening for this arc. My best guess is that he's just a Kaioshin from another Universe other than the 6th or 7th - the Supreme one or the only remaining one for some reason, like Kaioshin became after Majin Buu's initial rampage - and hence a good guy who just can't control Black, just the way none of the Kaioshin could stop Majin/Kid Buu. The Kaioshin are relatively extremely strong and have an extremely high position in terms of deity hierarchy, but they can't be really be called "heroes", as their actions during the Majin Buu arc and especially after that demonstrate and illustrate how powerless they are against the very strongest in the Universe(s). It's both unwillingness and actual incapactity to do anything about it. On top of that, they're even in terms of diety hierarchy arguably below the Hakaishin and their respective attendants, and obviously below Zen-ou-sama.

[Nejishiki]

We're all blind. Clearly the mastermind behind all this is the announcer for the U6/U7 tournament.

By the way, anyone know, if he has the same voice actor as the announcer for the Earth tournaments?

I'm afraid not, the new announcer is voiced by Kazunari Tanaka.

[MaGyunia]

I just want to point out this is the only chance in the series outside of any fanstories to see a battle Vegetto VS Gogeta. All they need is a second Vegeta (well, one of the fusions would probably still be the same evil guy but at least it would look like a battle as Vegetto and Gogeta).

I don't really think they meant to do it this way to make that possible or even that it even crossed their mind, but yeah, that would be beyond awesome. I'd be rooting for Vegitto, though.

On the soon upcoming episode, I bet Goku'll meet and see Black only at the very last scenes of the episodes, and that's where it'll end.

[Muffin Man]

All they need is a second Vegeta

*Purple Vegeta returns and fuses with Goku Black, forming Dark Purple Vegetto*

[MaGyunia]

That or Vegitto Super Saiya-jin Blue and Goku Super Saiya-jin Blue fight, then fuse and form Gojitto Super Saiya-jin Blue, the single most powerful entity the Universe has ever or will ever witness.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Zamasu having a name is pretty weird, I mean, I dont remember other Kaioshins having a name, we have the kaioshin from universe 7, universe 6, of time, and no one has a name, so, I think he used to be a kaioshin and now he is a villain.
Also I don't think they are going to introduce Zamasu for at least 10 episodes more, this arc seems its going to last a good amount of episodes, and wont end in 10 episodes like the others.

Shin-jin have names (Kibito for example) but when they gain the title Kaioshin, that's what they're addressed as.