Non-thread-worthy discussions

[MasenkoHA]

They did indeed get Icarus from the syndicated dub because they invented it themselves (its actually more surprising the Pioneer/Ocean dub wasn't forced to keep it)

That was probably for the same reason the original pronunciation for Kaio-Ken was kept. The Pioneer movie dubs were produced independently of Funimation as Pioneer got the sublicense for the home video market.
.

Eh Funimation still had Gen Fukanaga supervising the Pioneer dub and we still got Funi isms like "World Martial Arts Tournament" instead of Tenkaichi Tournament and Goku instead of Son Goku and Say In instead of Sai yan and the aforementioned Destructo Disk instead of Kienzan. I would at least assume Funimation gave Pioneer some style guide to know what names to use and considering the Funi version for syndication had to have been dubbed first I'm surprise there wasn't some memo "By the way, we're calling the dragon Icarus "

I think Kaio Ken being pronounced correctly is just what happens when you don't have Barry Watson involved

[Vegetto95]

If you've seen the 2006 in-house dub Funimation did about 90 percent of that script was recycled from the syndicated dub some corny jokes and dialog censorship are removed and occasionally some additional dialog is added (example when Yamucha is using his Sokidan in the syndicated dub he says "You want some of this, fly face! In the 2006 redub he just says "You want some of this!") but it's basically the same script right down to the nonsense line about the fruit from the tree of might being for the Eternal Dragon and not the gods.

Also worth noting FUNimation was very much in charge of scripting since day uno, even when they were dubbing in Canada. They did indeed get Icarus from the syndicated dub because they invented it themselves (its actually more surprising the Pioneer/Ocean dub wasn't forced to keep it)

That's one thing I've noticed in the few instances where, really for my own amusement more than anything, I've spot-checked the dubs to compare between each other and the Japanese version, that FUNi's 2005 "Ultimate Uncut" redub (also from what little I remember of it that I briefly watched on the "Season One" "orange brick" DVD set in 2007 before permanently switching to Japanese-only shortly after) tended to just reuse their 1996-98 scripts almost word-for-word 97.8% of the time instead of, you know... actually putting in ANY effort whatsoever to update the scripts to be more accurate to the original Japanese dialogue. And IIRC (I honestly haven't watched more than probably ten or twenty minutes of the dub combined total over the last 15 years lol), even the scenes that were cut out of the heavily edited 96-8 dub had newly scripted dub dialogue in the 2005 redub that wasn't Japanese-accurate.

And the thing that makes that even more ridiculous is that they DID change some things here and there, like getting rid of the "Your father was a brilliant scientist who saved us all from the radical weaponry on Rygol 7 when he invented this technique" bullshit, replacing it with the more accurate explanation from the Japanese dialogue (though of course the use of "Blutz waves" was there, obscuring the original pun on "fruits")... but on the other hand, there's other stuff from the '96-8 dub that was COMPLETELY wrong but was left entirely, almost word-for-word unchanged in the 2005 UUE redub, such as Kaiō-sama's story about the origin of the Saiyans STILL having the whole made-up bit about the "Arcosians" (replete with retaining such AMAZING lines as "I'm sure you've heard the joke, 'How many Saiyans does it takes to build a rocketship?' " GROOOOOOOOAAAN). Which leads me to believe that they ONLY fixed the "brilliant scientist" thing because of the years of well-known ridicule it had gotten on the internet to the point where its belittlement has grown beyond being a niche fansite-exclusive thing, even then in 2005. Which was NOT exactly the best reason to do that.

But hey... at least they got rid of some of the other hilariously awful shit like "You just wait until it grows back!", "I can see their parachutes! They're okay!", "It's too bad it's Sunday. That building would have been full tomorrow", "They blew up the cargo robot!", "The Home for Infinite Losers", "That area may have been evacuated, but it'll give them something to think about!" and "sent to the Next Dimension". Sooooooo... yay for them, I guess? Because we all know that's SUUUUUCH a high bar... (Especially since dumb, cringey, juvenile shit like "Oh excuse me, has anyone seen my arm? You can't miss it, it's green!"; "Your brother's a beast, and he stunk!" - "Yeah, I noticed that too!", and soooo many others like that were still kept, again, almost always word-for-fucking-word.)



Even MORE ridiculous than that is how SOME of the dub line change stuff from as late as the mid-2000s actually traces back even before FUNimation was first founded as a company in 1994!! Not only are the still-used-to-this-day "Power Pole" and "Flying Nimbus" products of the obscure, EXTREMELY short-lived 1989/1990 Harmony Gold dub of the first five episodes of Dragon Ball... but a lot of the current dub script is as well!

One specific example I remember is the scene where Oolong tries to escape from Blooma's boat by turning into a fish, but Blooma puts her panties on a fish hook and lures him back in. Immediately after, Gokū holds up a knife and fork, and says, in the Japanese version "If you try running away again, I'll slice you up and eat you!", to which Oolong replies "I'll come with you since I have no other choice, but at least give me those panties!" Which is hilarious lol

However, the Harmony Gold dub cut out the fish and hook scene entirely, so they changed Gokū's line to "All the food's gone! Did you make a pig of yourself again?", and Oolong's response to "Unfortunate choice of words, squirt, but these great outdoors do make me hungry!", which comes off as a COMPLETELY random and out-of-place non-sequitur that's there solely to try and explain away Gokū holding the utensils. And it's also not REMOTELY as funny as the original dialogue.

The original 1995 FUNimation dub of the first 13 episodes of Dragon Ball kept the fish and hook scene in, but (horribly) digitally edited a stack of dollar bills over Blooma's panties, because stupid censorship. However, Gokū's line remained almost WORD FOR WORD the same as the Harmony Gold change, with only a VERY SLIGHT wording change to "Hey, why's all the food gone? Did you make a pig of yourself?", despite the context that would make the original Japanese line make sense this time around. And hell, they could have even changed Oolong saying "at least give me those panties" to "give me the money" or something to fit in with the censorship, but nope... the great outdoors still made him hungry!

And to top it all of, making matters EVEN WORSE is that, when FUNi redubbed those first 13 episodes in 2001 with their 1999 in-house voice cast to finally fully dub the entire 153 episode series... they STILL kept in the Harmony Gold line (though with the aforementioned barely-altered 1995 wording)! And it's STILL there to this day, both in the uncut 2009 "Season One" DVD release (the most recent FUNimation physical release of original Dragon Ball), AND the official streaming version on Crunchyroll!!! FUNi's sheer laziness and lack of any initiative whatsofuckingever to just make their Dragon Ball/Z/GT dubs faithful to the series' original vision is ASTOUNDING.



Like, I am NOT a fan of the American English dubs of the DB franchise to ANY degree whatsoever... but godDAMN is their twisting, turning, ridiculous, batshit crazy, 10 billion layers deep of sheer WTFness history FASCINATING

[MasenkoHA]

That's one thing I've noticed in the few instances where, really for my own amusement more than anything, I've spot-checked the dubs to compare between each other and the Japanese version, that FUNi's 2005 "Ultimate Uncut" redub (also from what little I remember of it that I briefly watched on the "Season One" "orange brick" DVD set in 2007 before permanently switching to Japanese-only shortly after) tended to just reuse their 1996-98 scripts almost word-for-word 97.8% of the time instead of, you know... actually putting in ANY effort whatsoever to update the scripts to be more accurate to the original Japanese dialogue. And IIRC (I honestly haven't watched more than probably ten or twenty minutes of the dub combined total over the last 15 years lol), even the scenes that were cut out of the heavily edited 96-8 dub had newly scripted dub dialogue in the 2005 redub that wasn't Japanese-accurate.

Oh yeah, I guess it would have been weird if the UUE dub had accurately translated scripts just to transition to the 99 dub shitfest in the middle of the conflict with the Ginyus.

Some of the dialog they kept didn't even make sense. Like Goku making a Sir Isaac Newton reference (we should all know after the original Dragon Ball finally aired here that Goku wouldn't know who that is) or Goku telling the oni escort driver he practices the Kame Sennin style of martial arts (as opposed to saying Turtle Hermit style)

One specific example I remember is the scene where Oolong tries to escape from Blooma's boat by turning into a fish, but Blooma puts her panties on a fish hook and lures him back in. Immediately after, Gokū holds up a knife and fork, and says, in the Japanese version "If you try running away again, I'll slice you up and eat you!", to which Oolong replies "I'll come with you since I have no other choice, but at least give me those panties!" Which is hilarious lol

However, the Harmony Gold dub cut out the fish and hook scene entirely, so they changed Gokū's line to "All the food's gone! Did you make a pig of yourself again?", and Oolong's response to "Unfortunate choice of words, squirt, but these great outdoors do make me hungry!", which comes off as a COMPLETELY random and out-of-place non-sequitur that's there solely to try and explain away Gokū holding the utensils. And it's also not REMOTELY as funny as the original dialogue.

The original 1995 FUNimation dub of the first 13 episodes of Dragon Ball kept the fish and hook scene in, but (horribly) digitally edited a stack of dollar bills over Blooma's panties, because stupid censorship. However, Gokū's line remained almost WORD FOR WORD the same as the Harmony Gold change, with only a VERY SLIGHT wording change to "Hey, why's all the food gone? Did you make a pig of yourself?", despite the context that would make the original Japanese line make sense this time around. And hell, they could have even changed Oolong saying "at least give me those panties" to "give me the money" or something to fit in with the censorship, but nope... the great outdoors still made him hungry!

And to top it all of, making matters EVEN WORSE is that, when FUNi redubbed those first 13 episodes in 2001 with their 1999 in-house voice cast to finally fully dub the entire 153 episode series... they STILL kept in the Harmony Gold line (though with the aforementioned barely-altered 1995 wording)! And it's STILL there to this day, both in the uncut 2009 "Season One" DVD release (the most recent FUNimation physical release of original Dragon Ball), AND the official streaming version on Crunchyroll!!! FUNi's sheer laziness and lack of any initiative whatsofuckingever to just make their Dragon Ball/Z/GT dubs faithful to the series' original vision is ASTOUNDING.

Yep, other than fixing a few errors and rewriting some bits to accommodate the uncut footage Funimation's in-house dub of the first 13 episodes was pretty much a straight redub of their 95 dub with BLT and since that dub borrowed a lot from the Harmony Gold dub, we had dialog written in 1989 surviving all the way to 2001. Which explains things like "totally radical".

Like, I am NOT a fan of the American English dubs of the DB franchise to ANY degree whatsoever... but godDAMN is their twisting, turning, ridiculous, batshit crazy, 10 billion layers deep of sheer WTFness history FASCINATING

Even in Kai they would occasionally reuse old not all that accurate dialog from their Z dub.

Like the scene where Mr.Popo and Kami talk about the changing Piccolo, the Kai dub reuses the Z dub dialog word for word right down to omitting the bit that that Raditz going to the next world instead of being unable to pass on was a sign Piccolo was no longer a mazoku (which creates a dub only plot hole since the original Dragon Ball dub did keep the whole "those killed by Piccolo and his tribe can't pass on to otherworld and are doomed to suffer as restless spirits" albeit without explaining WHY that was a thing)

[Vegetto95]

[Oh yeah, I guess it would have been weird if the UUE dub had accurately translated scripts just to transition to the 99 dub shitfest in the middle of the conflict with the Ginyus.

I mean, very soon after, they did a (partial) redub of the "season three"/"Captain Ginyu/Frieza sagas" stuff in the "Season Three" orange brick DVD box set in 2008, where quite a few VAs re-recorded their lines (and a few got out-and-out replaced, like Butta/"Burter", Dende, and the narrator). In particular, Sonny Strait, Chris Sabat, and Stephanie Nadolny redubbed ALL of their lines as Kuririn, Vegeta, and Gohan (though Sabat unfortunately left his 1999-2000 Piccolo performance alone, which IIRC you've (accurately) referred to in the past as "Moron Piccolo" , so we still get the same absolutely lovely "YES YES YES I.CAN.WIN.I.FEEL.GREAT.I!CAN!DO!THIS!UUARRGH!" from '99), but problem is... the vast majority of those re-voiced lines were the exact same.

You had that infamously AAAAWFUL "Woah... mondo cool!" "That's right, boys... MONDO COOL" scene (that also included the 1000% incorrect bullshit about "the liquid in the [healing] capsule is synthetic Saiyan DNA"... I can't even BEGIN to explain all the things wrong with that) being reproduced WORD FOR WORD, despite ALL THREE characters in the scene having re-recorded lines. Like, Sonny's Kuriririn sounds less high-pitched and nasally, Sabat's Vegeta sounds more deep and uncomfortably gravelly, and Stephanie's Gohan sounds less raspy. But they're all still saying the same dumb, juvenile "Mondo cool!!" garbage from nine years earlier. Like, WHY bother re-recording 40+ episodes of dialogue (I think they stopped re-doing every line at the end of the Garlic, Jr. arc) if they were gonna keep the same HORRIBLE dialogue? Clearly, FUNimation simply DID. NOT. CARE.

So yeah, while I definitely understand the notion that having the first 67 episodes be re-scripted to be more accurate to the Japanese version would be weird and offputting when they lead straight into the decidedly inaccurate 1999 episodes, at the same time... they DID also redo a LOT of material from those 1999 "season three" episodes. They COULD have gone all the way if they wanted to, but they chose to be fucking lazy, as always.

Even in Kai they would occasionally reuse old not all that accurate dialog from their Z dub.

Like the scene where Mr.Popo and Kami talk about the changing Piccolo, the Kai dub reuses the Z dub dialog word for word right down to omitting the bit that that Raditz going to the next world instead of being unable to pass on was a sign Piccolo was no longer a mazoku (which creates a dub only plot hole since the original Dragon Ball dub did keep the whole "those killed by Piccolo and his tribe can't pass on to otherworld and are doomed to suffer as restless spirits" albeit without explaining WHY that was a thing)

I mean, Kai's dub as a whole is NOWHERE NEAR the GIGANTIC improvement so many claim it is. On top of Kai just... not being a particularly good product at all even in its original Japanese for a dozen different reasons, the only real improvement in the Kai dub was the more accurate dialogue (and I suppose Chris Ayres' perfectly-okay-but-still-kinda-average performance as Freeza still being WAY better than Linda Young's ABSOLUTELY ATROCIOUS Freeza), but that's really about it. And it does count for a decent bit, sure, but here's the thing... aside from the correctly pronounced use of Makankosappo thankfully replacing "sPeCiAl BeAm CanNoN" (you know... the literally only two times it's ever said, which is only in the very first three episodes lol) and Kaiōken, and Grand Elder replacing "Guru", there's still SO many dub names and spelling and pronunciations that remain totally unchanged. The Kai dub still uses "Say in", "Tien", "Krillin", "King Kai" and "Supreme Kai", "Tri-Beam", "Flying Nimbus", "Shenron", "Yemma", "Korin", "Yah-djuh-row-bee", "Dr. Djuh-row", "Dabura", "Vegito", "Frieza", "Androids", "Guldo", "Recoome", "Jeice", "Burter", and so much other shit. Hell, they couldn't even be bothered to pronounce Kienzan correctly, and instead said "KienzEn" (I mean, I'm *GLAD* "dEsTrUcTo DiSk" went away, but COME ON. That all but PROVES they didn't ACTUALLY care one bit).

And the voices, my god... yeah, they're still BAD. Contrary to the EXTRAORDINARILY popular belief that I've seen parroted time and time and time again both here and elsewhere (Reddit, YouTube, etc), 99.9% of the returning actors still sound EXACTLY the same as they did in the last few years of the Z dub in 2002-3. In particular, Kaiō-sama, Gyūmaō, Reacoom, second form Cell, fat Majin Boo, Yajirobe, Sea Turtle, Oolong, and more ALL still sound like absolute fucking IDIOTS who are IMPOSSIBLE to take seriously in ANY way and to ANY degree whatsoever. First form Cell and Butta's generic bug alien voices are still seriously grating. Muten Rōshi's southern hick accent and Jheese's Australian accent are still horribly, cartoonishly overdone. No. 16 still has his dumb, generic, monotone, emotionless robot voice. Sabat's Piccolo is still trying WAY too hard to be all "stoic and cool and suuuuper deeeeep-voiced". Sabat's Vegeta (the dub voice I hate the most by far) still sounds like the illegitimate lovechild of Randy Savage and Hulk Hogan's stage voices that smoked a pack a day since the day he was born, and it's impossible to take him at all seriously as well (his forced, fake cartoon "tough guy" voice has honestly become SO obnoxiously gravelly that it's almost physically uncomfortable for me to listen to, kinda like a nails on a chalkboard sensation).

And a few of the new voices are even worse than their predecessors IMO; Nadolny's Gohan was never all that good, but anyone who thinks his new actress (I forget her name, nor do I care) sounds like a 4-5 year old in the Saiyan arc needs their ears checked (and if Nozawa could believably sound like a very young child when she was in her 50s/60s, which she absolutely DID... they have NO excuse). Vollmer's Blooma always sucked, but her Kai-onward actress (ditto with her name) turned the character into an ABSOLUTELY UNLIKABLE BITCH. Like... I can't. That's the real reason why the more accurate dialogue doesn't ACTUALLY improve things ANYWHERE NEAR as much as I see SOOOO many people keep saying... because said more accurate dialogue is STILL being delivered via a whoooole heapin' bunch of HORRIBLY unfitting '80s He-Man kiddie cartoon silly voices.

As a whole, Kai is a completely lazy, half-assed show to begin with, and FUNi's dub of it is equally lazy and half-assed. I'll take Japanese Z every single time over a half-assed dub of a half-assed show, thank you very much (or better yet, the manga lol).

[GhostEmperorX]

On top of Kai just... not being a particularly good product at all even in its original Japanese for a dozen different reasons...As a whole, Kai is a completely lazy, half-assed show to begin with

One of those reasons on the JP side being their ridiculous idea to recut "Z" for its 20-year anniversary (makes you wonder why they did nothing for original DB in 2006 ), while they completely failed to future-proof just about anything from the original run in the first place.
Of course, they must have learned that lesson the hard way all throughout its production process, and even more so 2 years later when their MD had an earthquake of its own just 2 episodes before the end of the TV run (and 2 days before the Tohoku Earthquake).
Were they really that drunk on the IP's massive success?

[Cure Dragon 255]

This is actually thread worthy but I promised to only do a thread per month so...


I know Toriyama is famous for being lazy and forgetful... but the people saying this HAVE NO IDEA how hard it is to do a manga on weekly shonen jump. YOU HAVE to do a 15 page minumum comic EACH WEEK. I know he cuts corners but HE IS NOT LAZY. I mean sure once he stopped he said "NEVER AGAIN" but if you had to go through what he did you would be the same way. I also saw that he never ever missed a week in the entirety of Dragon Ball's weekly publication. We need to stop treating mangaka like robots. They are humans.

[MasenkoHA]

This is actually thread worthy but I promised to only do a thread per month so...


I know Toriyama is famous for being lazy and forgetful... but the people saying this HAVE NO IDEA how had it is to do a manga on weekly shonen jump. YOU HAVE to do a 15 page minumum comic EACH WEEK. I know he cuts corners but HE IS NOT LAZY. I mean sure once he stopped he said "NEVER AGAIN" but if you had to go through what he did you would be the same way. I also saw that he never ever missed a week in the entirety of Dragon Ball's weekly publication. We need to stop treating mangaka like robots. They are humans.

I agree. As long as he's not profiting off other people picking up the slack let the man work smarter not harder. So much of what made Dragon Ball unique as a series comes from Toriyama cutting corners and finding ways to make his workload easier and that's honestly part of the series charm.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

This is actually thread worthy but I promised to only do a thread per month so...


I know Toriyama is famous for being lazy and forgetful... but the people saying this HAVE NO IDEA how had it is to do a manga on weekly shonen jump. YOU HAVE to do a 15 page minumum comic EACH WEEK. I know he cuts corners but HE IS NOT LAZY. I mean sure once he stopped he said "NEVER AGAIN" but if you had to go through what he did you would be the same way. I also saw that he never ever missed a week in the entirety of Dragon Ball's weekly publication. We need to stop treating mangaka like robots. They are humans.

Honestly I'd go as far as to argue that a lot of the people who say that have no idea what hard work is, and if they were in Toriyama's position they would regret ever criticizing him. Keyboard warriors always think they know better than anyone else because its a hell of a lot easier to trash someone or something else on the internet than actually being in their position and trying to do better themselves.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Wow I am so glad you agree. I am hoping to have become a better poster. Thank you so much.

[Vegetto95]

Honestly I'd go as far as to argue that a lot of the people who say that have no idea what hard work is, and if they were in Toriyama's position they would regret ever criticizing him. Keyboard warriors always think they know better than anyone else because its a hell of a lot easier to trash someone or something else on the internet than actually being in their position and trying to do better themselves.

It's also due in VERY large part, much like a LOOOOOOT of other still-thrown-around-with-reckless-abandon-decades-after-being-thoroughly-disproven Dragon Ball misconceptions, to misinformation spreading like wildfire because someone somewhere on the internet says it, and countless others parrot it around without doing any actual fact-checking of their own.

I would HEAVILY assume that "Toriyama was crazy lazy actually" came about in the EXACT same ways that stuff like "FUNimation only started dubbing DBZ in 1999 after 'taking over' from Ocean", "Toriyama created the initial design for Super Saiyan 4", "Toriyama decided to do Battle of Gods in direct response to his displeasure at Dragonball Evolution", "Gohan was the main character of the entire Artificial Humans arc", "the original version of Broli was boring because all he could say was 'CACARROTTO!!!!", "Dragon Ball Super takes place six months after the defeat of Boo", "Toriyama was ACTUALLY planning to end the series _________", "Freeza's race is actually called changelings/Arcosians/Frost Demons, etc.", "Dragon Ball Kai cuts out AAAALL of Z's 'filler' and is 100% accurate to the manga!!!", and SOOOOO much other totally wrong, misinformative bullshit came about that I still see a BUNCH of people (a.k.a. WAAAAAAY too fuckin' many) saying TO THIS DAY.

The Dragon Ball fandom on the internet as a whole has honestly done a pretty goddamn poor job of policing itself over the years/decades (I know it's mostly a well-worn joke by now that "Dragon Ball fans don't read", but at the same time... most if not all stereotypes do come from SOMEWHERE lmao). Kanzenshuu does a GREAT job at keeping it really real with regards to the truths and misconceptions about the franchise... but unfortunately, we're just one small corner of the internet with only so much reach... *sigh*

[ZeroNeonix]

I honestly didn't know how many pages he had to put together every week. And he's not just the artist for the manga, but the writer too, so he had to come up with the story as he was illustrating it. I never held Toriyama's "laziness" against him. I mean, sure, he was making everything up as he went, and he cut corners (making Namek have three suns so he wouldn't have to draw night-time settings, making Super Saiyan hair yellow so it wouldn't have to be inked in, etc), but it worked. In terms of narrative flow, it worked much better than Super has so far. I've heard it said that in terms of content, Super has already caught up to the original series in length, manga and animation, but boy does it not feel like it.

[MasenkoHA]

(I know it's mostly a well-worn joke by now that "Dragon Ball fans don't read",

Dragon Ball fans don't watch/read Dragon Ball is a meme with a hell of a lot of truth to it, if perusing through things like the DBZ subreddit, YouTube and Tiktok comments, and tweets is any indication.

[Grimlock]

I know Toriyama is famous for being lazy and forgetful... but the people saying this HAVE NO IDEA how had it is to do a manga on weekly shonen jump. YOU HAVE to do a 15 page minumum comic EACH WEEK. I know he cuts corners but HE IS NOT LAZY. I mean sure once he stopped he said "NEVER AGAIN" but if you had to go through what he did you would be the same way. I also saw that he never ever missed a week in the entirety of Dragon Ball's weekly publication. We need to stop treating mangaka like robots. They are humans.

Even stuff you like and want to do it, you have to go in prepared. Because even your dream job has its downsides that you should not only have anticipated them, you'll have to deal with them. I went into translation knowing I would also be translating some of the most boring and tedious stuff that I'm not interested at all, yet those are the works I double the effort so as not to make a half-assed job. It is great if you found a way to cut corners and made your work easier, but you have to be smart about it and use them cleverly.

However, for every "Super Saiyan" situation, you have a "tail" situation. To this day we still don't know why Goku and Vegeta never regained their tails, even though it should regrow back as previously and clearly established. A "possible" explanation only exists from outside material and even then, it's a bullshit and half-assed explanation that does not make sense in the slightest. Not to mention the hybrids... If tails are a nuisance to draw, then they should have never existed in the first place. Don't get rid of them overnight without some decent explanation first. And if you can't find a decent explanation, you will draw them until the end of times... And I'm not sure if I accept that "evolved differently" thing for Universe 6, at least not without knowing their history deeper (which obviously we will never know, because why would we, right? We still barely know anything about Universe 7 Saiyans...).

That said, I'm not on board with this line of work consuming a lot of time and energy, to the point of the artists only having to sleep around three hours or so, from what I've heard. It's something that should definitely change.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I know Toriyama is famous for being lazy and forgetful... but the people saying this HAVE NO IDEA how had it is to do a manga on weekly shonen jump. YOU HAVE to do a 15 page minumum comic EACH WEEK. I know he cuts corners but HE IS NOT LAZY. I mean sure once he stopped he said "NEVER AGAIN" but if you had to go through what he did you would be the same way. I also saw that he never ever missed a week in the entirety of Dragon Ball's weekly publication. We need to stop treating mangaka like robots. They are humans.

Even stuff you like and want to do it, you have to go in prepared. Because even your dream job has its downsides that you should not only have anticipated them, you'll have to deal with them. I went into translation knowing I would also be translating some of the most boring and tedious stuff that I'm not interested at all, yet those are the works I double the effort so as not to make a half-assed job. It is great if you found a way to cut corners and made your work easier, but you have to be smart about it and use them cleverly.

However, for every "Super Saiyan" situation, you have a "tail" situation. To this day we still don't know why Goku and Vegeta never regained their tails, even though it should regrow back as previously and clearly established. A "possible" explanation only exists from outside material and even then, it's a bullshit and half-assed explanation that does not make sense in the slightest. Not to mention the hybrids... If tails are a nuisance to draw, then they should have never existed in the first place. Don't get rid of them overnight without some decent explanation first. And if you can't find a decent explanation, you will draw them until the end of times... And I'm not sure if I accept that "evolved differently" thing for Universe 6, at least not without knowing their history deeper (which obviously we will never know, because why would we, right? We still barely know anything about Universe 7 Saiyans...).

That said, I'm not on board with this line of work consuming a lot of time and energy, to the point of the artists only having to sleep around three hours or so, from what I've heard. It's something that should definitely change.

This is a great post and makes great points. I know any job worth doing, especially when its your dream job, will never be easy and I love the nuanced take you got.

[ABED]

I don't consider that a great post bc a decade long manga with no gaps is not the same as a new work project. It's one thing to be prepared, it's another to have it all planned out in a serialized narrative. There are always things that change on the fly, and you can't anticipate everything. Man plans and god laughs. Writing for TV or a manga is like laying down railroad ties as the train is in motion. So what if we don't know why Vegeta's tail doesn't regenerate?

[GhostEmperorX]

The Dragon Ball fandom on the internet as a whole has honestly done a pretty goddamn poor job of policing itself over the years/decades (I know it's mostly a well-worn joke by now that "Dragon Ball fans don't read", but at the same time... most if not all stereotypes do come from SOMEWHERE lmao). Kanzenshuu does a GREAT job at keeping it really real with regards to the truths and misconceptions about the franchise... but unfortunately, we're just one small corner of the internet with only so much reach... *sigh*

And then you have the people who it's beyond obvious they've never seen any official credit material or even a proper, accurately sourced database that reflects the information therein. Which leads to misattribution after misattribution after misattribution... and it's not even exclusive to one side of the fandom. "Source: Idk/Made-up" is pretty much everywhere to some extent.

Of course, props go to this site for setting the record straight on many things, and it's more than a helpful resource for finding official information in general.
But you haven't seen real accuracy till you visit a place where you have to search every nook & cranny of a scan for credits and link them in their original languages (along with all typo/alias variations thereof), providing sources every step of the way.

[Vegetto95]

And then you have the people who it's beyond obvious they've never seen any official credit material or even a proper, accurately sourced database that reflects the information therein. Which leads to misattribution after misattribution after misattribution... and it's not even exclusive to one side of the fandom. "Source: Idk/Made-up" is pretty much everywhere to some extent.

Soooooo... basically the Dragon Ball wikia on Fandom?

As most of us on here know, that place is just utterly and unforgivably ATROCIOUS... and yet it's probably the No.1 MAIN source of DB "information" to a HUGE swath of the casual English speaking DB fandom... and THAT is a very, very scary thought. I know it's only one part of that overall equation... but I would wager it's a very big part.

[GhostEmperorX]

Well, as a matter of course, any problem that's bad elsewhere is a lot worse here with this IP, so on a place like Fandom wikia that tends to be sloppy on average with original/official source verification and other such material, it would only be multiplied when it gets to DB.
Doesn't help that the scope is far too broad with unstandardized elements like synopses, quotes, descriptions, etc, and the line between official info and speculation is blurred.

[Grimlock]

Hey, finally one of these characters profile contained some unexpected info. I didn't expect they would know about Toriyama's possible name for Bulma's mother. I'm yet to see them mentioning something that comes from a guidebook.

[super michael]

I want to ask is it ok to make a topic about this "Which digimon and dragon ball character would get along"? It would be interesting to see what replies a topic like that would get.