Non-thread-worthy discussions

[Matches Malone]

I think the wierdest thing is, what was the point of the Whis outfits? They appear for two arcs and then were completley dropped

Toriyama didn't want there to be too much Blue between their forms and outfits, but Toei decided that modern DB wasn't nostalgic enough, so they decided to switch back to their classic looks. It's a shame that this franchise isn't allowed to evolve even in small ways such as clothes. I'm honestly surprised Bulma was allowed to keep her new look and wasn't switched back to her Buu/BOG look.

[Mad Swami]

I think the wierdest thing is, what was the point of the Whis outfits? They appear for two arcs and then were completley dropped

Toriyama didn't want there to be too much Blue between their forms and outfits, but Toei decided that modern DB wasn't nostalgic enough, so they decided to switch back to their classic looks. It's a shame that this franchise isn't allowed to evolve even in small ways such as clothes. I'm honestly surprised Bulma was allowed to keep her new look and wasn't switched back to her Buu/BOG look.

Yeah, sadly Dragonball is too large for risks to be taken like that. Classic is safe and easy.

[Matches Malone]

Yeah, sadly Dragonball is too large for risks to be taken like that. Classic is safe and easy.

They won't take risks now, yet the product that started this revival (BOG) was a massive risk. Everything that was expected from it and done in previous movies was completely thrown out in favor of a new, fresh direction for both the franchise and the characters involved. Despite being over 7 years old and 7 stories later, it's still the biggest highlight of this revival.

[Grand Marshal 1]

In terms of clothing/armor I think that CC Goku and Vegeta are wearing quite nice (inspired by the old and the new) armor sets.

The black in goku's gi def is appealing to the eye, although you can argue that navy dark blue suits him better.

While Vegeta's blue isn't that dominant, unlike his ToP/Cell saga armor. I'm trying to imagine him with a more Grey tone that could go well with Goku's black. But what other color would suit Vegeta for that extra tint? No orange, not red, def not green, perhaps yellow is too much...

Props for the most epic armor designs to the Xeno crew tho

[Mad Swami]

In terms of clothing/armor I think that CC Goku and Vegeta are wearing quite nice (inspired by the old and the new) armor sets.

The black in goku's gi def is appealing to the eye, although you can argue that navy dark blue suits him better.

While Vegeta's blue isn't that dominant, unlike his ToP/Cell saga armor. I'm trying to imagine him with a more Grey tone that could go well with Goku's black. But what other color would suit Vegeta for that extra tint? No orange, not red, def not green, perhaps yellow is too much...

Props for the most epic armor designs to the Xeno crew tho

I agree

[Witty User Name]

Yeah, sadly Dragonball is too large for risks to be taken like that. Classic is safe and easy.

They won't take risks now, yet the product that started this revival (BOG) was a massive risk. Everything that was expected from it and done in previous movies was completely thrown out in favor of a new, fresh direction for both the franchise and the characters involved. Despite being over 7 years old and 7 stories later, it's still the biggest highlight of this revival.

I agree with you that BoG was a risk, only I'm not of the opinion that it's the best "modern" DB movie.

[Matches Malone]

I'm not of the opinion that it's the best "modern" DB movie.

Production wise, I think Broly is the best thing to have the DB name attached to it. Everything about that movie's visuals are simply breathtaking. Story wise however, I have to give it to BOG. Great characters development, great world building, and great new characters. It's everything I've always wanted from a Toriyama written sequel. For me personally, a good looking movie isn't enough. If an author is going to continue a story that ended 2 decades ago, I expect a story that has something valuable to add to it, and so far, BOG is the only one to fit that description.

[RandomGuy96]

I just realized that Namekians are vaguely elf-like, though I've never seen anyone else make that comparison.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves_in_ ... n_features

Modern fantasy literature has revived the elves as a race of semi-divine beings of human stature who are friendly with nature. Although the álfar of Norse mythology has influenced the concept of elves in fantasy, the elves are different from Norse and the traditional elves found in Middle Ages folklore and Victorian era literature.

A hallmark of fantasy elves is also their long and pointed ears (a convention began with a note of Tolkien's that the ears of elves were "leaf-shaped"). The length and shape of these ears vary depending on the artist or medium in question. Post-Tolkien fantasy elves (popularized by the Dungeons & Dragons role-playing game) tend to be immortal or longeval in comparison to humans, more beautiful and wiser, with sharper senses and perceptions, and abilities or crafts that seem alien or magical. Often elves do not possess facial or body hair, are not portrayed fat or old and are consequently perceived to be androgynous.

As a race, Elves are more ancient than humans or other races, mentioned to have flourished in a sort of Golden Age which has been forgotten by other races. That age was often long before other races appeared or were created. Consequently, Elves are often a living relic of a setting's respective fictional mythology and source of its lore.

Half-elves and divergent races of elves, such as high elves and dark elves, were also popularized at this time; in particular, the evil drow of Dungeons & Dragons have inspired the dark elves of many other works of fantasy.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... sAreBetter

-Human-sized, or sometimes smaller. (Exception: High Elves are usually taller but slimmer, just to emphasize their inherent superiority.)
-Lithe and nimble, bordering on Squishy Wizard.
-Pointy Ears. The exact pointyness varies. Some favor "Humanlike with a point at the tip", while many works (particularly anime for exaggeration purposes) have thin, triangular ears a foot long, often sticking out at a 90-degree angle from their heads.
-Long-life spans. Usually accompanied by low birth rates.
-Magical in one way or another, either from being highly spiritual, innately magical or producers of magitek.
-No facial hair. Period. They don't grow it and never have to shave. This is pervasive to the point a Perma-Stubble or beard on an elf would be mind shatteringly weird.
-Very, very pretty to the point of fetishism. (Those pointed ears...) Very often they are of androgynous appearance.
-Will either be exceptionally chaste and only have sex within the bounds of true love, or sexually liberated and probably polyamorous, depending on which the author considers more appropriate for a Superior Species.
-A strong warrior tradition, albeit one that is usually more refined than most. Perhaps because of the nature of the settings they exist in, pacifist elves are surprisingly rare. On an individual level, Elves tend to wield elegant, graceful weapons, such as scimitars, rapiers, katanas, daggers, spears, and especially longbows. They are commonly Weak, but Skilled in their fighting styles, relative to other races. Elves who wield large crushing weapons such as battleaxes and warhammers are incredibly rare, and most Elves wouldn't even touch a crossbow or a gun. Elves are also experts with magic — if you have a Magic Knight or a full-on mage in your party, they're likely to be an Elf. On a wider scale, expect an elven fighting force to utilise mobility and stealth over brute force, with lots of magical backup.
-In the case of Space Elves, literal Elves In Space are more likely to be Proud Warrior Race Guys, while an Enlightened Mystic Race that merely resembles elves is more likely to be a Proud Scholar Race and peaceful if not pacifistic. Usually they protect themselves using their Psychic Powers.

(I despise this website but this does seem to summarize common elf traits in fiction)

It's not a perfect match but a lot of traits seem to line up by coincidence.

-Mostly resemble humans with long pointy ears (Namekians also have green skin, fangs, and antennae, plus the whole "all male" thing, but that distinguishing feature is there).

-Generally very tall and lean (though there are exceptions).

-Very long life spans (Kami and Saichoru both lived for several hundred years, and Piccolo does not seem to have physically aged in decades), appropriately followed by low birth rates (Namek still only has a population of a little over a hundred after centuries).

-Exceptionally skilled in magic in a setting where that's not standard (Dende's healing powers, Saichoru's potential unlock, the dragon balls, etc.), as well as telepathy and telekinesis.

-Lack facial or body hair (or any hair, for that matter).

-Sharper senses and quicker movements than humans (not only are they seemingly inherently more powerful, but they are universally capable of sensing ki and, even independent of ki, their physiology seems to allow for better senses e.g. Piccolo's hearing).

-Spiritual, with their own deities.

-Friendly with nature (not only are all Namekians inherently vegan, they're taking efforts to cultivate flora to beautify their planet despite not needing it for sustenance).

-Chaste (literally asexual, in this case).

-Very powerful warriors (the Namekians' greatest warrior could have easily slain Freeza, and their standard fighters rival the strongest Saiyans prior to the power level arms race of the main series), but also more peaceful than humans in general.

-Have their own spin-off clans of dark kin who are shunned by the others (Slug and Piccolo's Mazoku).

-Dying race with a long-passed golden age (though with the possibility of recovery), in this case due to an natural disaster.

[Witty User Name]

I'm not of the opinion that it's the best "modern" DB movie.

Production wise, I think Broly is the best thing to have the DB name attached to it. Everything about that movie's visuals are simply breathtaking. Story wise however, I have to give it to BOG. Great characters development, great world building, and great new characters. It's everything I've always wanted from a Toriyama written sequel. For me personally, a good looking movie isn't enough. If an author is going to continue a story that ended 2 decades ago, I expect a story that has something valuable to add to it, and so far, BOG is the only one to fit that description.

Btw, as far as new stories are concerned, what do you think of the Goku Black/Zamasu arc?

[Matches Malone]

As far as new stories are concerned, what do you think of the Goku Black/Zamasu arc?

I think Black's introduction in the anime is by far the best villain introduction in the franchise. He's an amazing character, Nozawa really helped solidify him as modern DB's best villain.

The idea of a deity giving up on mortals is a great one, but 2 mindless monsters throwing sticks at each other is what caused Zamasu to snap ? that's the worst sin they could come up with ? I'm also not a fan of Zamasu being presented as a villain. Wouldn't it have been more compelling to give Zamasu real reasons to why he had those beliefs ? I think it would've been interested seeing fans go back and forth in regards to who's right.

The biggest issue I have with the arc is its scope, why take such a great idea and limit it to Trunks' timeline ? This arc's idea could've easily spread to multiple universes as the deities decide that mortals have simply gotten too bad and a reset is needed. Speaking of Trunks, why on earth is he and his timeline involved ? their story was complete back during the Cell arc. With the antagonists being from U10, why not just set it there instead ? We could've been formally introduced to U10's destroyer and some of the fighters there who'd end up in the TOP.

What was up with Trunks' inconsistency ? He has no reaction to his mother and Mai getting killed in front of him, yet snaps and gets a new form out of nowhere for Zamasu calling him a sinner. Regarding his "transformation", why didn't they just do the SsjG ritual and give him that instead of the "rage" form, whatever that was. Another issue I have with him is the lack of explanation begind his spirit sword. a simple line would've been enough. There's also Trunks' inconsistent power. He went from not being able to fight base black to holding his own against Rose Black and Zamasu, then going a step further and temporarily killing fused Zamasu.

Last, but not least, the ending. Zamasu melting, Vegetto being retconned when they could've just used the fusion dance, Zamasu becoming one with the universe, Zeno destroying Trunks' timeline before he himself being moved to live with the other Zeno, and Trunks and Mai just moving to an identical timeline after all is said and done.

I'm always reading how this arc is the best Super has to offer, and one of the franchise's best, but I honestly don't see it. Apart from Black's introduction and Nozawa's performance, this arc fails at everything it tries to do. I understand why it looks good compared to the rest of Super, as the bar was set so low at that point and even after that anything would look good, but the rest of the franchise ? I'll never understand how anyone can take this train wreck of an arc and put it next to one of the greats such as the Namek arc, Saiyan arc, 22nd Tenkaichi arc, etc.

[SupremeKai25]

As far as new stories are concerned, what do you think of the Goku Black/Zamasu arc?

I think Black's introduction in the anime is by far the best villain introduction in the franchise. He's an amazing character, Nozawa really helped solidify him as modern DB's best villain.

The idea of a deity giving up on mortals is a great one, but 2 mindless monsters throwing sticks at each other is what caused Zamasu to snap ? that's the worst sin they could come up with ? I'm also not a fan of Zamasu being presented as a villain. Wouldn't it have been more compelling to give Zamasu real reasons to why he had those beliefs ? I think it would've been interested seeing fans go back and forth in regards to who's right.

The biggest issue I have with the arc is its scope, why take such a great idea and limit it to Trunks' timeline ? This arc's idea could've easily spread to multiple universes as the deities decide that mortals have simply gotten too bad and a reset is needed. Speaking of Trunks, why on earth is he and his timeline involved ? their story was complete back during the Cell arc. With the antagonists being from U10, why not just set it there instead ? We could've been formally introduced to U10's destroyer and some of the fighters there who'd end up in the TOP.

What was up with Trunks' inconsistency ? He has no reaction to his mother and Mai getting killed in front of him, yet snaps and gets a new form out of nowhere for Zamasu calling him a sinner. Regarding his "transformation", why didn't they just do the SsjG ritual and give him that instead of the "rage" form, whatever that was. Another issue I have with him is the lack of explanation begind his spirit sword. a simple line would've been enough. There's also Trunks' inconsistent power. He went from not being able to fight base black to holding his own against Rose Black and Zamasu, then going a step further and temporarily killing fused Zamasu.

Last, but not least, the ending. Zamasu melting, Vegetto being retconned when they could've just used the fusion dance, Zamasu becoming one with the universe, Zeno destroying Trunks' timeline before he himself being moved to live with the other Zeno, and Trunks and Mai just moving to an identical timeline after all is said and done.

I'm always reading how this arc is the best Super has to offer, and one of the franchise's best, but I honestly don't see it. Apart from Black's introduction and Nozawa's performance, this arc fails at everything it tries to do. I understand why it looks good compared to the rest of Super, as the bar was set so low at that point and even after that anything would look good, but the rest of the franchise ? I'll never understand how anyone can take this train wreck of an arc and put it next to one of the greats such as the Namek arc, Saiyan arc, 22nd Tenkaichi arc, etc.

Before going to Planet Babari, Zamasu had already seen many examples of mortals foolishly fighting each other and throwing away their divine gifts. That's why he had doubts about mortals in the first place. Babari was simply the last straw.

Black and Zamasu could have killed Trunks whenever they wanted. They needed him so that Black could get stronger during a fight. Once Trunks had outlived his usefulness, Black sent Zamasu to kill him. Trunks also never killed Fused Zamasu.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Question, do we have a Dragon Ball Legends thread out of curiosity.

Besides that, anyone playing the game? I believe that for all its worth, Shallot is actually a character left in the background, despite being a character made by Toriyama, with a story that is ongoing after the ToP.

[pepd]

Toriyama didn't want there to be too much Blue between their forms and outfits, but Toei decided that modern DB wasn't nostalgic enough, so they decided to switch back to their classic looks.

Do you have a source on this?

[ZeroNeonix]

Question, do we have a Dragon Ball Legends thread out of curiosity.

Besides that, anyone playing the game? I believe that for all its worth, Shallot is actually a character left in the background, despite being a character made by Toriyama, with a story that is ongoing after the ToP.

There is a thread.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=41612

[Grand Marshal 1]

Question, do we have a Dragon Ball Legends thread out of curiosity.

Besides that, anyone playing the game? I believe that for all its worth, Shallot is actually a character left in the background, despite being a character made by Toriyama, with a story that is ongoing after the ToP.

There is a thread.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=41612

Awesome! Thanks mate!

[pepd]

Is there any Tori/Toyo comment on Table or Aka, or anything that suggest that he exists in the dbs manga continuity?
Aside from “presently only 5 saiyans on Earth” and his mention on DBS: Broly

[Matches Malone]

Is there any Tori/Toyo comment on Table or Aka, or anything that suggest that he exists in the dbs manga continuity?
Aside from “presently only 5 saiyans on Earth” and his mention on DBS: Broly

As far as I know, Tarble isn't mentioned in either the anime or manga, just the movies. It seems like Toriyama is very interested in Tarble, as he went out of his way to mention him twice.

[ZeroNeonix]

Is there any Tori/Toyo comment on Table or Aka, or anything that suggest that he exists in the dbs manga continuity?
Aside from “presently only 5 saiyans on Earth” and his mention on DBS: Broly

I personally think he's canon. It's just that he's boring, so they don't bother with him. lol

[DestructoDisc]

I imagine this is what Vegeta would do to any guy Bulla comes home with

https://youtu.be/qE0mRJlQwUs

[Alruneia]

Has Toriyama made any direct statements (in interviews or in Daizenshuu or wherever else) about Dragon Ball's status as a gag manga vs an action/story manga? It is well-known that Dragon Ball started out as a more comedic manga that evolved to have more focus on action and storytelling, and Kanzenshuu describes it as starting out as a gag manga as well...

Dragon Ball began as a gag manga (comic) by a man named Akira Toriyama in late 1984.

...but are there any proper statements on this, statements about DB's initial status as a gag manga and its evolution into an action manga? How does Toriyama view it?
Sometimes "Source: It's obvious" isn't quite solid enough.