The problem with retconning Beerus' power

[The Monkey King]

Having all these new characters and transformations being below Beerus really bothers me because it makes the BoG saga seem like a dumb waste of time that doesn't make sense.

At the start it made sense. Rageta made Beerus use 10% of his power in order to stomp him, fighting SSJG Goku made him use 70% of his power to beat him.

This perfectly fits in with the well known 6/10/15 scale made by Toriyama.

Someone who makes Beerus only use 10% of his power (Rageta) is note worthy but not even worth his time and won't give him any entertainment while someone who makes him use 70% (SSJG Goku) is a nice challenge and will entertain him for a while, giving him a nice break from curbstomping everyone he comes across.

This was all fine up until SSJB KKX10 being deemed weaker than Beerus due to Champa's confidence with being able to take on Hit and Goku even if he uses Kaio-Ken.

This gave Beerus' power a massive retcon boost that ruined the point of the BoG arc.
The entirety of Beerus' motivation was to find the legendary SSJG so he could have an entertaining fight.
But because of Kaio-ken there's no way Beerus had used more than 10% of his power to defeat SSJG Goku since the scale would be as such:

Beerus > SSJB KKX10 >>>>> SSJB Post ROSAT > SSJB F arc > SSJG

This means that Beerus spent so much time finding someone he could beat with less that 10% of his power (which is something that didn't satisfy him within the original power scale) and the entire SSJG vs Beerus fight was just Goku being toyed with and humoured by Beerus. Which makes for a pretty underwhelming climax to a DB arc.

And now some people are claiming that Beerus is more powerful than SSJB Vegito (which I personally disagree with) which makes the BoG arc even more stupid.

TL;DR. The stronger Beerus gets via retcons the more pointless the BoG arc becomes

[ekrolo2]

It's pretty obvious Goku and Vegeta weren't meant to stay weaker than him much longer according to the F movie.

[Doctor.]

It's not like this is the first time this has happened.

This Beerus syndrome happened to Cell first of all.

[ekrolo2]

It's not like this is the first time this has happened.

This Beerus syndrome happened to Cell first of all.

Was Cell's power altered mid writing?

[The Monkey King]

It's pretty obvious Goku and Vegeta weren't meant to stay weaker than him much longer according to the F movie.

Yeah, I agree it really hurts the narrative

Whis thinks it is a shame they don’t get along, because if they would just team up they could actually fight evenly with Beerus.

Kaio-ken x10 Goku not leaving Beerus in the dust is annoying but at least it was omitted in the manga

It's not like this is the first time this has happened.

This Beerus syndrome happened to Cell first of all.

What do you mean?
Because Cell always had to absorb people to get marginally stronger (zenkai aside) while Beerus' power boosts have been pretty contrived

[Doctor.]

Was Cell's power altered mid writing?

More subtly than Beerus, but yeah. First he clearly states that Grade 3 Trunks surpasses him in power, there's no way he could beat him in raw strength.

Then when Goku gets out of the ROSAT, only 50% of his power is enough to leave Trunks and Vegeta shaking and sweating (and keep in mind that they didn't know that Goku was only at 50%), implying he's much stronger than their Grade forms at only 50%. Not only was Cell stronger than Goku, he was stronger than Gohan AND never even revealed his full power until Gohan went SS2.

[Legion]

F movie is irrelevant with super.

Beerus for millions of years has always used probably only 0,1% of his power. I think it's normal that he find exciting to use, i don't know, even only 20% of his power. Anyway, the "numbers" are not the answer anymore, guys.

Goku and Vegeta surpassed stronger characters after two days only in DBZ, anyway. DBS is pretty much different. Gods like Beerus or Whis they are something that Dragon Ball has never really had.

Beerus probably will be surpassed only when we'll see him at full power and when we'll see him more involved with the plot. For now, who cares if he's still stronger than Goku/Vegeta, seriously? Is always a neutral character that Toriyama keeps away from Goku's problems.

I think that Goku/Vegeta fans can't accept that these two are not the strongest, that's all.

[Bullza]

Well they've definitely retconned Beerus' movie from the movies because Goku and Vegeta together were supposed to be able to fight on par with Beerus but in the series they couldn't fight on par with Black and they said he was weaker than Beerus.

But for the series... technically his power might not have been retconned. We mainly assume it because of thinking he's stronger than Goku using the Kaioken x10 but that might not be true.

He was clearly nervous when he saw Goku use just the Kaioken 2 and Champa got freaked out when Hit and Goku glared at him. So Champa's comment about beating them could have just been a load of bull. They were tired and it's not like Beerus hasn't lied several times.

So if Champa lied then there hasn't really been a retcon. Afterall we haven't seen Beerus beat anyone at that level yet.

[MajinVegetaPD]

The movie statements of power have been retconned, yes.

I always fall back to Whis talking to Oracle Fish about the comparison of power to that tree and Beerus' castle. They are still not close to Beerus.

[Majin Jator]

Champa got freaked out when Hit and Goku glared at him. So Champa's comment about beating them could have just been a load of bull.

Please, don't take this personally, but it surprises me when someone tries to make something of it. Champa isn't used to be defied in any way, and he was shocked when glared by Goku and Hit. But that means nothing, he wasn't afraid when he threatened Hit and the rest of the U6 fighters.
He might be weaker than Beerus, but he still is a God of Destruction.

[Bullza]

Champa got freaked out when Hit and Goku glared at him. So Champa's comment about beating them could have just been a load of bull.

Please, don't take this personally, but it surprises me when someone tries to make something of it. Champa isn't used to be defied in any way, and he was shocked when glared by Goku and Hit. But that means nothing, he wasn't afraid when he threatened Hit and the rest of the U6 fighters.
He might be weaker than Beerus, but he still is a God of Destruction.

No you're right, maybe he really could have wiped the floor with them all but there's always the chance he was fibbing too.

There hasn't been much concrete to prove its been retconned that significantly yet. In the series Beerus did say he'd briefly regretted seeking him out and they did withstand being blasted by him when he wasn't supposed to be holding back so it's still too soon to say he could one shot Vegito or Merged Zamasu or things like yet.

All we know for sure is that he's stronger than Black.

[LightBing]

What makes me sad about his is that they had the chance to correct it. They had the chance to improve and tune the movies for the series and they mostly failed.
It's likely that Mr. Toriyama didn't inform anyone about his intentions, until the staff saw the Universe 6 stuff and wondered why was Goku using SSJ. He's at fault, but all those people who have worked with the man for decades should have asked if this new series made him change his mind about anything from before. They should know who they are dealing with.

[Faisal Shourov]

It was retconned a long time back. The 6/10/15 was invalid in Super from the beginning












DO PEOPLE EVEN WATCH SUPER? The movies are dead and has nothing to do with the anime

[DHM211]

It was retconned a long time back. The 6/10/15 was invalid in Super from the beginning












DO PEOPLE EVEN WATCH SUPER? The movies are dead and has nothing to do with the anime

A good chunk of people skipped the first 2 arcs or started watching them and lost interest.

[julianix]

Beerus can sweat and look nervous all he wants.. I guarantee you that if he was hell bent and pushed to the edge he would mop the floor with Goku and Vegeta.

That's how it should be.

[buutenks]

I see no problem. I am actually glad Beerus is still stronger.

[Cipher]

Alternate take: Goku really does push Beerus to use a significant portion of his power during Super's opening arc, just as in the movie, and powers like the anime-only Kaioken, Vegetto, Merged Zamasu, etc., do surpass him, but don't actually mean anything in terms of Goku and Vegeta surpassing him.

Is it unfathomable that even in the anime's wishy-washy presentation of events, the Kaioken, which has Beerus visibly nervous and attempting to save face, could surpass him in terms of raw power? Goku can use it for like a minute without risking his life. It's not yet practical.

Anyway, it doesn't particularly matter. From a story perspective all we need is that:

-Goku is promising enough as a Super Saiyan God to excite Beerus
-Goku and Vegeta are individually incapable of beating him and continue to use him as a goalpost

Which is what we have.