If Goku joined the Justice League...

[Berserker1921]

Superman is superior to Goku as of now.

He really isn't,the moment Goku became universal is when he became far superior.It seems you're underestimating Goku while ranking Supes too high .

Superman had fought and defeated/outwitted beings that would put Zeno to shame.

Oh really Superman has fought beings capable of casually destroying timelines?As an DC comic reader I would love to hear who this person is considering Superman gets ko'd by far less

Golden frieZa a would not be as big of a threat as we all think

Yeah Golden Freeeza stronger than a person who can destroy the entire universe wouldn't be a threat to the league funny the last time someone was a threat to the universe was the Darkseid War Arc which had the league become Gods themselves.

The justice league have travelled across they're multiverse several occasions, different dimensions, timelines, and met God. Goku would be considered to be a novice to them.

The Justice League has never met God what story arc are you referring to?

Well that was a weird source storyline from grant morrison where they met "God" who in the D.C. Verse is referred to as the source, prescence, Yahweh. Superman helped in defeating the anti-monitor who destroyed thousands of multiverses before being defeated by the three supermen. Super man tragically deals with Mzxyplizk, who is a 5th dimensional being. Often has to outwit him to defeat him or stop his plans. Even superman was able to severely hurt another 5th dimensional nein recently after being able to figure out his frequency. Zeno is powerful but is high 4th dimensional at best. Zeno is far from omnipotent since he too a slave of time.

Superman has fought and defeated Mandrakk. A being from outside our existence. Yes he had to wear the cosmic armor but he did face off against someone who threatened the whole DC omniverse.

Remember superman like goku always holds back. I mean when he "died" to doomsday. He only "died" because he thought that what's should happen. See I have a theory, outside of superman gaining his powers by the yellow sun. That the more confident he is the more invincible he is. Sort of like gladiator from marvel. Gladiator is a superman rip off more or less. However his powers are powered by his self confidence. So the more confident he is. The more powerful he is. Superman sees himself as human first and kryptonian second. Why he prefers the name Clark over Kal. He was able to wake up from his death after his father's spirit told him he is better than that. That he is more than human. That he is a god. So superman was able to come back from his death. He has a mental barrier over him that holds him back. Some examples of this are in all-star/superman 1 million. That after a million years traveling the omniverse, getting trained by prescence, and returning to his universe. Where he gained more powers from descendants who one is half 5th dimensional imp now. What I am getting too is he had not aged a day. However when superman from kingdom come had returned to his universe and married his Wonder Woman. He began to age normally. However slower than humans. At 2,000 years old he was an old man. What I am getting too is that if he believes himself more human. The more human he is. The more superman or godly he believes himself the more powerful he becomes.

Superman can defeat and kill almost of his villains if he wanted too. But chooses not too. Superman would rather use diplomacy than his fist. He rather get his ass kicked if he knew it would cause less destruction and less chance for people to be hurt. As showmen in all- star superman when he fought his kryptonian cousins. Refusing to fight them even though he could have easily defeated them due to the fact that he absorbed more solar energy than normal that increased his powers incredibly. Superman in silver age could sneeze away solar systems. Yes, I know I am mentioning superman from different eras. But it is still superman. Superman is as powerful as he needs to be. So he can defeat anyone that's his gimmick and hax.

[Saiyan007]

Superman helped in defeating the anti-monitor who destroyed thousands of multiverses before being defeated by the three supermen.

Keyword is helped he didn't beat him 1 on 1 ,hell Anti Monitor casually killed Ultraman in Darkseid War who is just as strong as Superman.

Super man tragically deals with Mzxyplizk, who is a 5th dimensional being. Often has to outwit him to defeat him or stop his plans

.

Yes by usually tricking him by saying his name backwards but according to the Supernan reborn arc it was shown Mxy was just toying with Superman and just allowing himself to be tricked.He has never taken him on with raw power because Superman is powerless to take him on.

Even superman was able to severely hurt another 5th dimensional nein recently after being able to figure out his frequency.

Any scans for this?I know Mxy usually tgoys with Suoes so any damage taken by him can usually be taken as all apart of his game.

Zeno is powerful but is high 4th dimensional at best. Zeno is far from omnipotent since he too a slave of time.

I never said he was omnipotent but Zeno has shown he's far above Supes.

Superman has fought and defeated Mandrakk. A being from outside our existence. Yes he had to wear the cosmic armor but he did face off against someone who threatened the whole DC omniverse.

But that's a completely different entity than regular Superman and you know that so why even bring it up?

Remember superman like goku always holds back.

Except with Doomsday,Darkseid because those are guys that can kill him

I mean when he "died" to doomsday. He only "died" because he thought that what's should happen.

No he died because Doomsday was his physical match and Superman just like Goku has his physical limits on how much damage he can sustain.

See I have a theory, outside of superman gaining his powers by the yellow sun. That the more confident he is the more invincible he is. Sort of like gladiator from marvel. Gladiator is a superman rip off more or less. However his powers are powered by his self confidence. So the more confident he is. The more powerful he is. Superman sees himself as human first and kryptonian second. Why he prefers the name Clark over Kal. He was able to wake up from his death after his father's spirit told him he is better than that. That he is more than human. That he is a god. So superman was able to come back from his death. He has a mental barrier over him that holds him back. Some examples of this are in all-star/superman 1 million. That after a million years traveling the omniverse, getting trained by prescence, and returning to his universe. Where he gained more powers from descendants who one is half 5th dimensional imp now. What I am getting too is he had not aged a day. However when superman from kingdom come had returned to his universe and married his Wonder Woman. He began to age normally. However slower than humans. At 2,000 years old he was an old man. What I am getting too is that if he believes himself more human. The more human he is. The more superman or godly he believes himself the more powerful he becomes.

I mean this is your headcanon but Superman has never gotten more stronger the more confident he was.

Superman can defeat and kill almost of his villains if he wanted too. But chooses not too

.
Not true in the slightest. He can't kill Mxy,Darkseid,or Anti Monitor

Superman in silver age could sneeze away solar systems. Yes, I know I am mentioning superman from different eras. But it is still superman.

Well ignoring that this is Silver Age where this character has been retconned for decades and Superman currently doesn't even have feats close to his Pre Crisis era days sneezing away a solar system is cool and all but truly pales in comparison to Goku who in a weaker form has the power to destroy the universe.The gap between Universal and Solar System level is astronomical.

Superman is as powerful as he needs to be. So he can defeat anyone that's his gimmick and hax.

This is as far from the truth as can be.Superman has lost plenty of times and basically 'died" against Dooomsday.His gimmick doesn't stop Mxy from casually toying with him or Darkseid making him bleed.N52 Zod was going to kill him in h2h if Wonder Woman didn't interfere.

Saying Supes can defeat anyone is nonsense when he isn't even the strongest in his own verse let alone most powerful in his own team.Flash has better hax and Bloodlusted could kill Superman before he even blinked.

[Berserker1921]

Superman helped in defeating the anti-monitor who destroyed thousands of multiverses before being defeated by the three supermen.

Keyword is helped he didn't beat him 1 on 1 ,hell Anti Monitor casually killed Ultraman in Darkseid War who is just as strong as Superman.

Super man tragically deals with Mzxyplizk, who is a 5th dimensional being. Often has to outwit him to defeat him or stop his plans

.

Yes by usually tricking him by saying his name backwards but according to the Supernan reborn arc it was shown Mxy was just toying with Superman and just allowing himself to be tricked.He has never taken him on with raw power because Superman is powerless to take him on.

Even superman was able to severely hurt another 5th dimensional nein recently after being able to figure out his frequency.

Any scans for this?I know Mxy usually tgoys with Suoes so any damage taken by him can usually be taken as all apart of his game.

Zeno is powerful but is high 4th dimensional at best. Zeno is far from omnipotent since he too a slave of time.

I never said he was omnipotent but Zeno has shown he's far above Supes.

Superman has fought and defeated Mandrakk. A being from outside our existence. Yes he had to wear the cosmic armor but he did face off against someone who threatened the whole DC omniverse.

But that's a completely different entity than regular Superman and you know that so why even bring it up?

Remember superman like goku always holds back.

Except with Doomsday,Darkseid because those are guys that can kill him

I mean when he "died" to doomsday. He only "died" because he thought that what's should happen.

No he died because Doomsday was his physical match and Superman just like Goku has his physical limits on how much damage he can sustain.

See I have a theory, outside of superman gaining his powers by the yellow sun. That the more confident he is the more invincible he is. Sort of like gladiator from marvel. Gladiator is a superman rip off more or less. However his powers are powered by his self confidence. So the more confident he is. The more powerful he is. Superman sees himself as human first and kryptonian second. Why he prefers the name Clark over Kal. He was able to wake up from his death after his father's spirit told him he is better than that. That he is more than human. That he is a god. So superman was able to come back from his death. He has a mental barrier over him that holds him back. Some examples of this are in all-star/superman 1 million. That after a million years traveling the omniverse, getting trained by prescence, and returning to his universe. Where he gained more powers from descendants who one is half 5th dimensional imp now. What I am getting too is he had not aged a day. However when superman from kingdom come had returned to his universe and married his Wonder Woman. He began to age normally. However slower than humans. At 2,000 years old he was an old man. What I am getting too is that if he believes himself more human. The more human he is. The more superman or godly he believes himself the more powerful he becomes.

I mean this is your headcanon but Superman has never gotten more stronger the more confident he was.

Superman can defeat and kill almost of his villains if he wanted too. But chooses not too

.
Not true in the slightest. He can't kill Mxy,Darkseid,or Anti Monitor

Superman in silver age could sneeze away solar systems. Yes, I know I am mentioning superman from different eras. But it is still superman.

Well ignoring that this is Silver Age where this character has been retconned for decades and Superman currently doesn't even have feats close to his Pre Crisis era days sneezing away a solar system is cool and all but truly pales in comparison to Goku who in a weaker form has the power to destroy the universe.The gap between Universal and Solar System level is astronomical.

Superman is as powerful as he needs to be. So he can defeat anyone that's his gimmick and hax.

This is as far from the truth as can be.Superman has lost plenty of times and basically 'died" against Dooomsday.His gimmick doesn't stop Mxy from casually toying with him or Darkseid making him bleed.N52 Zod was going to kill him in h2h if Wonder Woman didn't interfere.

Saying Supes can defeat anyone is nonsense when he isn't even the strongest in his own verse let alone most powerful in his own team.Flash has better hax and Bloodlusted could kill Superman before he even blinked.

Anti-monitor was at his prime than. This is the 1980's supermen. The one who could sneeze galaxies away. Not new 52 anti-monitor that loses to Darkseids or whatever. Who is nerfed beyond reason. This was casual erasing universes anti-monitor. The DC multiverse used to be massive before the new 52. Anti-monitor erased hundreds to thousands of universes. He was a big threat. That took three silver age level supermen (earth 1, earth 2, and super boy prime) to finish off. After crisis on infinite earths they really nerfed dc heroes and villains to create more human stories. Unlike Japan more human stories sell better here in the states, instead of godly beings going against even more godly beings because of reasons.

Now I never said superman could beat Zeno. At least current or average superman. I am saying superman has fought and bested beings way above him. Like Mzxyplizk and his dark counter part Vyndktvx. I kid you not that's his name.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/vyndktvx/4005-86373/

(I don't have the scans on me but I do have the comics. I swear I am not messing with you or trying to upset you. But everything I am mentioning is real feats)

Superman defeated him not by power but by outsmarting him. Like he does with Mzxyplizk. Zeno isn't that smart. Superman could probably convince him to give up blowing up universes. And by the end of the day. He would love superman like Mzxyplizk.

He has only died once by doomsday and since they have fought superman has defeated him every time since. Hell in the new 52, he beat a doomsday superman. And when I mentioned earlier superman could kill almost all his enemies. I didn't say all. But technically he did kill Mzxyplizk. But that was a superman the end comic written by Alan Moore. What ever happened to the man of tomorrow. But that's not the point.

Okay and so goku can destroy a universe. Why would superman? Superman like goku can destroy the universe or above. But they don't because they don't want too. See unlike goku; superman doesn't have magical wishing orbs that can solve almost any problem I have. Oops earth blew up, oh well. I will get those namekian dragon balls. Oops Zeno destroyed my universe; shucks... I guess we have to get those super dragon balls to fix everything. They're are no reprocussions of gokus actions in dragon ball. He do what he wants and can fix it either by the dragon balls or being friends with the most powerful being yet in dragon ball show to solve your problem. Superman doesn't have that. Yes, I know eventually whatever happens in comics it gets fixed cause the writers want to explore something or fix something. But superman himself can't fix it. So why would he go all out and punch darkseid's head in and destroy a galaxy. Because he can? Come on. The whole idea about superman is I want to protect and preserve. Not fight to see how strong I can get. Supes job is make sure everyone and everything is safe. Even in the animated series of justice league; superman wiped the floor with darkseid in the final episode because he could. No one was in danger, no one was being threatened. And he knew darkseid could survive his attacks. So why not bringing it up a notch. He did and nearly defeated darkseid in one punch.

Listen man. What I am explaining earlier is how I see superman would react if he knew goku. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes or anything. I have been reading comics for as long as I could remember. I am not saying your wrong either. I mentioned dozens of things that doesn't apply to general superman feats. But I know superman and yes he is that powerful. Like saitama in his universe how he can defeat anyone he fights with one punch. In superman's multiverse he can defeat and best any foe he fights. Superman is a broken character. No point being upset about it. That's how his character is. If he went to the dragon ball universe superman gets slaughtered by goku. It goku goes to his universe; superman wipes the floor with him. It just depends who is writing these characters. Dbz fans; goku always wins. Comic fans; superman always wins.

[sintzu]

Superman tosses his ass back into the Dragon Ball verse the second he lets the Anti-Monitor almost gain ultimate power just for thrills sake. Goku would be a menace to fucking society in any place with a sane morality, if not considered a down right villain in others.

Pretty much this. If that doesn't work he'll lock him up in the phantom zone.

[Berserker1921]

Superman tosses his ass back into the Dragon Ball verse the second he lets the Anti-Monitor almost gain ultimate power just for thrills sake. Goku would be a menace to fucking society in any place with a sane morality, if not considered a down right villain in others.

Pretty much this. If that doesn't work he'll lock him up in the phantom zone.

Yeah exactly. Superman would find a way to send him back home or throw him into the phantom zone. He would never want goku on the league. Superman wouldn't even put up with the stuff that is happening in db universe. So def no on goku joining the league.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well that was a weird source storyline from grant morrison where they met "God" who in the D.C. Verse is referred to as the source, prescence, Yahweh. Superman helped in defeating the anti-monitor who destroyed thousands of multiverses before being defeated by the three supermen.

I'm pretty sure you're misremembering things, because every time the Anti-Monitor was defeated the vast majority of the work was done by much more powerful beings than Superman.

Super man tragically deals with Mzxyplizk, who is a 5th dimensional being. Often has to outwit him to defeat him or stop his plans. Even superman was able to severely hurt another 5th dimensional nein recently after being able to figure out his frequency. Zeno is powerful but is high 4th dimensional at best. Zeno is far from omnipotent since he too a slave of time.

Mxy only lets Superman win as part of his game. If he wanted to he could kill him instantly.

Superman has fought and defeated Mandrakk. A being from outside our existence. Yes he had to wear the cosmic armor but he did face off against someone who threatened the whole DC omniverse.

But, as mentioned, he had a huge powerup. That's like saying Thanos should get the Infinity Gauntlet or Heart of the Universe by default.

Superman can defeat and kill almost of his villains if he wanted too. But chooses not too.

Not true. He and the JLA have many villains that are way more powerful than him. In fact, often he wins fights that he really shouldn't just because of bad writing (like when he beats Darkseid).

Superman is as powerful as he needs to be. So he can defeat anyone that's his gimmick and hax.

I wish people would stop repeating this falsehood. Tons of villains are much stronger than he is. Let's take one of the characters you just mentioned previously - Mr. Mxyzptlk. The entire point of the character is that Superman's powers are worthless against him - he's so much more powerful that it doesn't even resemble a fair fight. But Superman wins by using his intelligence and outsmarting him, showing that brute force isn't always the answer.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Keyword is helped he didn't beat him 1 on 1 ,hell Anti Monitor casually killed Ultraman in Darkseid War who is just as strong as Superman.

Well you're right about the Anti-Monitor, but it should be pointed out that Superman has beaten Ultraman easily before, such as in Trinity.

Any scans for this?I know Mxy usually tgoys with Suoes so any damage taken by him can usually be taken as all apart of his game.

In the early New 52 run he did defeat the imp Vndktvx (no idea how to spell it) but there was some kind of Deus Ex Machina involved IIRC. Not raw power.

I never said he was omnipotent but Zeno has shown he's far above Supes.

Most versions, yeah.

Except with Doomsday,Darkseid because those are guys that can kill him

I think it was once canon in the pre-reboot continuity that he had only ever really gone all-out 3 times in his life - once as a kid before he developed his powers, in the final punch that killed Doomsday, and against Imperiex. But that might have changed since then.

No he died because Doomsday was his physical match and Superman just like Goku has his physical limits on how much damage he can sustain.

IIRC it was retconned that he didn't die, he was just beaten into a coma or something. That's not to say he can't die, of course.

I mean this is your headcanon but Superman has never gotten more stronger the more confident he was.

Well, not explicitly.

Not true in the slightest. He can't kill Mxy,Darkseid,or Anti Monitor

He killed Darkseid's essence in Final Crisis by cancelling out his vibrational frequency or something, but most of Darkseid's power had already been expended/dispersed by then, and I think he had help from the Miracle Machine or something. Either way, it was a silly scene.

Pre-Crisis Superman did kill the Anti-Monitor, but that's when he was only a head, and had only an infinitesimal fraction of his full power left.

So you're basically right - in most circumstances (and under a competent writer) he shouldn't be able to.

Saying Supes can defeat anyone is nonsense when he isn't even the strongest in his own verse let alone most powerful in his own team.Flash has better hax and Bloodlusted could kill Superman before he even blinked.

Assuming no jobbing of course.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Anti-monitor was at his prime than. This is the 1980's supermen. The one who could sneeze galaxies away. Not new 52 anti-monitor that loses to Darkseids or whatever. Who is nerfed beyond reason. This was casual erasing universes anti-monitor. The DC multiverse used to be massive before the new 52. Anti-monitor erased hundreds to thousands of universes. He was a big threat. That took three silver age level supermen (earth 1, earth 2, and super boy prime) to finish off. After crisis on infinite earths they really nerfed dc heroes and villains to create more human stories. Unlike Japan more human stories sell better here in the states, instead of godly beings going against even more godly beings because of reasons.

You're pretty much ignoring 99% of what was needed to take down the Anti-Monitor. After he absorbed the power of the multiverse into him, he fought directly with the Spectre and beat him, but only just barely, using up most of his power at that point. Dozens of heroes then attacked him at once, and then he was poisoned by the energies of his own shadow demons due to the sorcerers messing with them, Darkseid hit him with the Omega Blast through Alex Luthor, and a bunch of other stuff I don't even remember.

Now I never said superman could beat Zeno. At least current or average superman. I am saying superman has fought and bested beings way above him. Like Mzxyplizk and his dark counter part Vyndktvx. I kid you not that's his name.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/vyndktvx/4005-86373/

(I don't have the scans on me but I do have the comics. I swear I am not messing with you or trying to upset you. But everything I am mentioning is real feats)

Superman defeated him not by power but by outsmarting him. Like he does with Mzxyplizk. Zeno isn't that smart. Superman could probably convince him to give up blowing up universes. And by the end of the day. He would love superman like Mzxyplizk.

Well that's possible, but a lot of characters could do something like that. Including characters who aren't nearly as strong as Goku or Superman.

He has only died once by doomsday and since they have fought superman has defeated him every time since.

That's not true either. In 'Doomsday Hunter/Prey' Doomsday was adapting new powers on the fly, and even though Superman had a Mother Box from New Genesis and the help of Waverider, he couldn't beat him. He was only stopped when Waverider took him to the end of time and left him there.

Hell in the new 52, he beat a doomsday superman. And when I mentioned earlier superman could kill almost all his enemies. I didn't say all. But technically he did kill Mzxyplizk. But that was a superman the end comic written by Alan Moore. What ever happened to the man of tomorrow. But that's not the point

That's not canon, and Mxy wouldn't be killed by going to the Phantom Zone like that in his canon version...

Okay and so goku can destroy a universe. Why would superman? Superman like goku can destroy the universe or above. But they don't because they don't want too. See unlike goku; superman doesn't have magical wishing orbs that can solve almost any problem I have. Oops earth blew up, oh well. I will get those namekian dragon balls. Oops Zeno destroyed my universe; shucks... I guess we have to get those super dragon balls to fix everything. They're are no reprocussions of gokus actions in dragon ball. He do what he wants and can fix it either by the dragon balls or being friends with the most powerful being yet in dragon ball show to solve your problem. Superman doesn't have that.

Do you really want to go down this route? He has potential access a few dozen magicians who can help him, tons of time travelers who can undo things in the past, a reality warping machine from the future, New Genesis technology that can pretty much do anything, the Spectre who can do even more than that... in DC not only the universe but the multiverse has been destroyed tons of times and fixed good as new.

Yes, I know eventually whatever happens in comics it gets fixed cause the writers want to explore something or fix something. But superman himself can't fix it.

If you count Goku using Dragonballs or getting other people to help as him 'fixing it', then Superman can do the same thing.

So why would he go all out and punch darkseid's head in and destroy a galaxy. Because he can? Come on. The whole idea about superman is I want to protect and preserve. Not fight to see how strong I can get. Supes job is make sure everyone and everything is safe. Even in the animated series of justice league; superman wiped the floor with darkseid in the final episode because he could. No one was in danger, no one was being threatened. And he knew darkseid could survive his attacks. So why not bringing it up a notch. He did and nearly defeated darkseid in one punch.

You know those versions are much weaker, right?

Listen man. What I am explaining earlier is how I see superman would react if he knew goku. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes or anything. I have been reading comics for as long as I could remember. I am not saying your wrong either. I mentioned dozens of things that doesn't apply to general superman feats. But I know superman and yes he is that powerful. Like saitama in his universe how he can defeat anyone he fights with one punch. In superman's multiverse he can defeat and best any foe he fights.

Except that's not how it works at all. If that was true, there would be no point in there even being a JLA with Superman as a member, since Superman could solve everything by himself. There are tons of villains that require the entire JLA roster to defeat, and others for whom even that isn't enough.

Superman is a broken character. No point being upset about it. That's how his character is. If he went to the dragon ball universe superman gets slaughtered by goku. It goku goes to his universe; superman wipes the floor with him. It just depends who is writing these characters. Dbz fans; goku always wins. Comic fans; superman always wins.

Or maybe it could be written by someone impartial...

[Berserker1921]

Well that was a weird source storyline from grant morrison where they met "God" who in the D.C. Verse is referred to as the source, prescence, Yahweh. Superman helped in defeating the anti-monitor who destroyed thousands of multiverses before being defeated by the three supermen.

I'm pretty sure you're misremembering things, because every time the Anti-Monitor was defeated the vast majority of the work was done by much more powerful beings than Superman.

Super man tragically deals with Mzxyplizk, who is a 5th dimensional being. Often has to outwit him to defeat him or stop his plans. Even superman was able to severely hurt another 5th dimensional nein recently after being able to figure out his frequency. Zeno is powerful but is high 4th dimensional at best. Zeno is far from omnipotent since he too a slave of time.

Mxy only lets Superman win as part of his game. If he wanted to he could kill him instantly.

Superman has fought and defeated Mandrakk. A being from outside our existence. Yes he had to wear the cosmic armor but he did face off against someone who threatened the whole DC omniverse.

But, as mentioned, he had a huge powerup. That's like saying Thanos should get the Infinity Gauntlet or Heart of the Universe by default.

Superman can defeat and kill almost of his villains if he wanted too. But chooses not too.

Not true. He and the JLA have many villains that are way more powerful than him. In fact, often he wins fights that he really shouldn't just because of bad writing (like when he beats Darkseid).

Superman is as powerful as he needs to be. So he can defeat anyone that's his gimmick and hax.

I wish people would stop repeating this falsehood. Tons of villains are much stronger than he is. Let's take one of the characters you just mentioned previously - Mr. Mxyzptlk. The entire point of the character is that Superman's powers are worthless against him - he's so much more powerful that it doesn't even resemble a fair fight. But Superman wins by using his intelligence and outsmarting him, showing that brute force isn't always the answer.

When I say superman has defeated someone it doesn't mean by brute strength. He outwits them or he finds a way to imprison them. Superman is powerful but isn't the most powerful being. I know this. The reason why I mentioned Mandrakk battle because soul or essence (yes also with help of ultraman) powered the machine. I only mentioned this feat to show that he has fought much stronger foes than Zeno.

Yes, Mxzyplick now basically is superman's biggest fan. Like bat-mite is to batman. But back in the day in the silver and some bronze issues he legit tried to kill superman in some occasions. Where superman outwitted him and defeated him. In whatever happened in the man of tomorrow? Superman used the phantom zone gun to take half of his body as mxz tried to escape. Which ended up killing him. I like what Max Landis put it basically that Superman was so powerful they had to create Mxz to effectively mess with superman.

Now when it comes to Darkseid. I think superman can defeated him. Not casually as many think I am implying. But superman can defeat him if he truly wanted too let it all out. Darkseid's power varies from Thanos level to cosmic multi-verse ender similar to that what he was in final crisis. Where Darkseid basically became Zamasu than, if you think about it. Lol. Superman on most and not special occasions can defeat him. As he can defeat Zod purely because he is smarter than Zod and superman has had more exposure to solar radiation than him.

Yes, I know that anti-monitor was basically dying when the three supermen fought him. But think about it. It took three guys who at this time were they're silver age power levels. I mean heck; in infinite crisis; Super Boy prime punched the walls of they're "paradise" or dimension so hard. that the universe's timeline was altered. Yes, I know this is Superboy prime and not superman. But If super boy is an any way near the same level as his silver age versions was. Imagine how powerful superman would be today?

Also superman did meet god or was implied that he did train with him in jla 1 million after traveling the universe for so many years after lois's death. Also when supes did fight whatever his face is. vzzffr idk. I have his name somewhere. He did hurt him. That's without any hax or special help. He hurt him by discovering his vibrational frequency. He damaged or broke his finger.

[DragonBallFoodie]

They would kick him out the Justice League the second he let his enemies get more powerful.

This!

The bigger reason is probably the fridge.

And this!

People forget that Akira Toriyama is primarily a gag artist, and that DB has its roots in gag manga. All the characters are named after foodstuffs, and the main protagonist is an idiot hero. DB may be one of the greatest shonen mangas ever, but part of it was defying the conventions of what heroes (and maybe villains) did in shonen manga.

Long story short, the Justice League OR the Avegers would never accept a goofy fight-lover/gag hero like Goku, in their worlds he'd be too much a liability. (The same goes for Deadpool, although as a gag character he's more kill-crazy and unbalanced; and I don't think DC has any gag hero I know of.)

[RandomGuy96]

He'd actually be notable for being more kill-happy than most of the League, who get absolutely ridiculous with their no-kill policies (except Based Wondy). I can see him killing most of Superman's rogue gallery, like Mongul. He had no problem killing Piccolo Daimao, Freeza, Yakon, Cell, and Buu.

Batman wouldn't kill Goku, but he'd come up with a way to remove or negate his powers, or some other way to deal with him. Batman came up with safeguards for every other member of the League; he'd find some way to take care of Goku. That's what he does.

Batman's best safeguard is his Jobber Aura, which has been passed down in the Wayne family for generations.

Superman tosses his ass back into the Dragon Ball verse the second he lets the Anti-Monitor almost gain ultimate power just for thrills sake.

Brainiac nearly killed Post-Crisis Superman with 'splash damage' from an exploding star (this is one of his most high-end feats by the way, much more often he has trouble with "planet" or "moon" level events, like when he knocked himself out destroying the Shadow Moon). DB characters have been able to wipe out entire solar systems with single energy blasts since the Cell arc. Anyone significantly stronger than Cell should be able to pound that Superman into the dust. Like, no competition.

Though, for the sake of ignoring a power level debate, I usually just assume that scenarios like this place Goku as equal in strength to the nebulous level of DC high-tier characters like Superman and Shazam. It's not like they're consistent about power levels in DC either (or even who qualifies as a high-tier in the first place, see Wonder Woman and Flash dying to bullets).

Goku would be a menace to fucking society in any place with a sane morality, if not considered a down right villain in others.

This assertion is invalidated by the fact that Superman hasn't killed Batman yet even though Batman has literally assaulted people or thrown knives at their throats to prevent them from killing his best buddy, the Joker, who will then gas a kindergarten class in the next week. Frankly, Post-Crisis Superman is far worse about this than Goku ever was.

[ekrolo2]

This assertion is invalidated by the fact that Superman hasn't killed Batman yet even though Batman has literally assaulted people or thrown knives at their throats to prevent them from killing his best buddy, the Joker, who will then gas a kindergarten class in the next week. Frankly, Post-Crisis Superman is far worse about this than Goku ever was.

Batman's actions, while insanely stupid for letting Joker live, have never been lead by amusement or selfishness the Goku's are and the consequences of Goku's horrid "morality" have caused a lot more people to die than Batman's ever have.

I can't see how Batman or Superman are in any way worse then Goku who just helped kick off an entire an entire tournament where billions of people are going to die. And no, the whole "Zeno was gonna do it anyway" defense doesn't work when fucking Zeno forgot about the tournament and it was Goku who reminded him of it.

[RandomGuy96]

This assertion is invalidated by the fact that Superman hasn't killed Batman yet even though Batman has literally assaulted people or thrown knives at their throats to prevent them from killing his best buddy, the Joker, who will then gas a kindergarten class in the next week. Frankly, Post-Crisis Superman is far worse about this than Goku ever was.

Batman's actions, while insanely stupid for letting Joker live, have never been lead by amusement or selfishness the Goku's are and the consequences of Goku's horrid "morality" have caused a lot more people to die than Batman's ever have.

No, Batman's actions are pure selfishness, something he himself admits. He doesn't want to kill criminals because of the impact that would have on his psychology. He'd rather let Joker murder children and then brutally stab his victims in the throat with a knife when they try to take revenge. And I would actually doubt that assertion. Goku's stupid actions have, via sheer luck, led to the entire universe being saved multiple times due to Vegeta being around. I can't remember a single positive impact of sparing the Joker.

I can't see how Batman or Superman are in any way worse then Goku who just helped kick off an entire an entire tournament where billions of people are going to die.

Superman literally invaded a foreign country and intervened in a lawful execution by one of its heads of government to save Brainiac's life. This being five minutes after he and an entire army of Kryptonians proved helpless to stop Brainiac, who had grown even more powerful since their last encounter (where he flat-out kicked the shit out of Superman and almost destroyed the solar system, only being foiled by his own greed for knowledge), with them only barely pulling through thanks to a last second betrayal by Lex Luthor. Brainiac then proceeded to escape jail for the third time that week and go back to killing billions of people a day.

[ekrolo2]

This assertion is invalidated by the fact that Superman hasn't killed Batman yet even though Batman has literally assaulted people or thrown knives at their throats to prevent them from killing his best buddy, the Joker, who will then gas a kindergarten class in the next week. Frankly, Post-Crisis Superman is far worse about this than Goku ever was.

Batman's actions, while insanely stupid for letting Joker live, have never been lead by amusement or selfishness the Goku's are and the consequences of Goku's horrid "morality" have caused a lot more people to die than Batman's ever have.

No, Batman's actions are pure selfishness, something he himself admits. He doesn't want to kill criminals because of the impact that would have on his psychology. He'd rather let Joker murder children and then brutally stab his victims in the throat with a knife when they try to take revenge.

I can't see how Batman or Superman are in any way worse then Goku who just helped kick off an entire an entire tournament where billions of people are going to die.

Superman literally invaded a foreign country and intervened in its laws to save Brainiac's life. This being five minutes after he and an entire army of Kryptonians proved helpless to stop Brainiac, who had grown even more powerful since their las encounter, with them only barely pulling through thanks to a last second betrayal by Lex Luthor. Brainiac then proceeded to escape jail for the third time that week and go back to killing billions of people a day.

Wow, I didn't actually believe they did that but you're right. I guess I can add that into the long list of reasons superhero comics are a piece of shit, self defeating medium.

[RandomGuy96]

Wow, I didn't actually believe they did that but you're right. I guess I can add that into the long list of reasons superhero comics are a piece of shit, self defeating medium.

Behold the purest and most benevolent of heroes:

Jason: "Batman, you have to kill the Joker! Not any other criminals, not Clayface or Ivy or Dent, just him. You know if you don't then he'll just murder thousands of other people like the fifty others he murdered this week."
Batman: "I'm sorry, but I can't take any life. Not even his."
Jason: "Fine, then I'll-"
Batman: "NO! DON'T YOU TOUCH HIM! I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU!"

[ekrolo2]

Wow, I didn't actually believe they did that but you're right. I guess I can add that into the long list of reasons superhero comics are a piece of shit, self defeating medium.

Behold the purest and most benevolent of heroes:

Jason: "Batman, you have to kill the Joker! Not any other criminals, not Clayface or Ivy or Dent, just him. You know if you don't then he'll just murder thousands of other people like the fifty others he murdered this week."
Batman: "I'm sorry, but I can't take any life. Not even his."
Jason: "Fine, then I'll-"
Batman: "NO! DON'T YOU TOUCH HIM! I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU!"

After the MCU, there really is no excuse for the whole "superheroes can't kill anyone" policy since EVERYONE of the Marvel guys has a sizable body count and you don't see Captain America being less of a paragon of virtue because of it.

[Polyphase Avatron]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... erImmunity

[Polyphase Avatron]

DB characters have been able to wipe out entire solar systems with single energy blasts since the Cell arc. Anyone significantly stronger than Cell should be able to pound that Superman into the dust. Like, no competition.

That's based on nothing more than a statement, though. If you accept unproven statements for Superman too he ends up being much more powerful.

TBH I tend to be skeptical of this kind of reasoning.

[RandomGuy96]

DB characters have been able to wipe out entire solar systems with single energy blasts since the Cell arc. Anyone significantly stronger than Cell should be able to pound that Superman into the dust. Like, no competition.

That's based on nothing more than a statement, though... unproven statements...

Actually, no. Not only is he noted to be able to do that by out-of-universe sources, he actually does do it on-screen in some expanded universe material like video games. Not to mention, the anime shows weaker characters destroying large stars. The reason he couldn't do this on the pages of the manga, as opposed to in anime, video games, etc. should be obvious: because that would mean the heroes lost.

[Polyphase Avatron]

DB characters have been able to wipe out entire solar systems with single energy blasts since the Cell arc. Anyone significantly stronger than Cell should be able to pound that Superman into the dust. Like, no competition.

That's based on nothing more than a statement, though... unproven statements...

Actually, no. Not only is he noted to be able to do that by out-of-universe sources, he actually does do it on-screen in some expanded universe material like video games. Not to mention, the anime shows weaker characters destroying large stars. The reason he couldn't do this on the pages of the manga, as opposed to in anime, video games, etc. should be obvious: because that would mean the heroes lost.

Video games aren't canon, and my point is that if you accept unproven statements from one side, you have to accept them from the other side too.