This is the very first time Vegeta achieves a new transformation ON-SCREEN!

[GodVegetto91]

Without any flashbacks or all that stuff. LIVE.

He achieved Super Saiyan off-screen, (only a flashback showed it), he achieved ASSJ off-screen, he achieved SSJ2 off-screen. He achieved SSJ Blue off-screen. He achieved ALL transformations off-screen except for this one! This is Vegeta’s legendary moment! It’s historical!

Note: before anyone mentions GT, i don’t include GT for obvious reasons.

So this is definitely something that needs to be acknowledged. And so i decided to do so.

[MisteryOne]

Not really, he archieved Mastered SSB on the manga before, so you should say that it's the first time in the anime

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Not really, he archieved Mastered SSB on the manga before, so you should say that it's the first time in the anime

That's not a new form though. Mastering something doesn't make it new.

Besides since the anime is the main product and OP even used "On Screen" a distinction doesn't need to be made.

[Grimlock]

he achieved ASSJ off-screen

Dragon Ball Super did us a favor to show Vegeta going Super Saiyan Second Grade for the first time, also through a flashback, obviously. But we did see him transforming into it for the first time. Just like Super Saiyan transformation.

As for the new power-up, well, it's a power-up not a new tranformation per si. One could say it's the second time if they count that whatever it is that happened to Vegeta back in Movie 14.

[MisteryOne]

Not really, he archieved Mastered SSB on the manga before, so you should say that it's the first time in the anime

That's not a new form though. Mastering something doesn't make it new.

Besides since the anime is the main product and OP even used "On Screen" a distinction doesn't need to be made.

Anime being the main product is completely irrevelant, what's your point?
"On screen" can also be used for any media when talking about the character doing something in the present or with the reader/viewer seeing it. It's not necessary to make a separate between "on panel" and "on screen".
ASS is not a proper form as well yet it's mentioned in the OP. Not to mention we don't even know if this "new form" is an actual new form or just a variation of Blue, as always. There is also the fact that MSSB was presented as an "evolution" in the manga.

Again, what was the point of your post?

[GodVegetto91]

Not really, he archieved Mastered SSB on the manga before, so you should say that it's the first time in the anime

That's not a new form though. Mastering something doesn't make it new.

Besides since the anime is the main product and OP even used "On Screen" a distinction doesn't need to be made.

Thank you very much Baggie_Saiyan!!!

[GodVegetto91]

he achieved ASSJ off-screen

Dragon Ball Super did us a favor to show Vegeta going Super Saiyan Second Grade for the first time, also through a flashback, obviously. But we did see him transforming into it for the first time. Just like Super Saiyan transformation.

As for the new power-up, well, it's a power-up not a new tranformation per si. One could say it's the second time if they count that whatever it is that happened to Vegeta back in Movie 14.

Like i said, flashbacks. This is the very first time we literally see Vegeta achieving a new transformation live, on-screen, right here right now, super duper uber new! First time baby!(H)

[SupremeKai25]

Wow, huh... congratulations, i guess? See, the mere second fiddle can also get something nice once in a while. Good for him!

[MisteryOne]

Not really, he archieved Mastered SSB on the manga before, so you should say that it's the first time in the anime

That's not a new form though. Mastering something doesn't make it new.

Besides since the anime is the main product and OP even used "On Screen" a distinction doesn't need to be made.

Thank you very much Baggie_Saiyan!!!

I still don't get it, why you used ASS as an example yet Mastered SSB can't be used? How do you know Vegeta's is a new form? Talking about double standards

But hey, it's cool that it's his first time in the anime anyway.

[GodVegetto91]

That's not a new form though. Mastering something doesn't make it new.

Besides since the anime is the main product and OP even used "On Screen" a distinction doesn't need to be made.

Thank you very much Baggie_Saiyan!!!

I still don't get it, why you used ASS as an example yet Mastered SSB can't be used? How do you know Vegeta's is a new form? Talking about double standards

But hey, it's cool that it's his first time in the anime anyway.

This is definitely NOT a “Mastered Super Saiyan Blue” as in the manga, or how regular SSJ was initially mastered back in the Cell arc. In order for that to be the case, Vegeta must be in his regular SSJ Blue form that looks the same as always. This, on the other hand, was clearly an Ascension, into something greater, something higher. Something beyond. It was a literal transformation. Heck it’s even called “Beyond Blue” and “Limit Breaker”. It’s the Next Level. Literally.
So why even deny it?

[MisteryOne]

Thank you very much Baggie_Saiyan!!!

I still don't get it, why you used ASS as an example yet Mastered SSB can't be used? How do you know Vegeta's is a new form? Talking about double standards

But hey, it's cool that it's his first time in the anime anyway.

This is definitely NOT a “Mastered Super Saiyan Blue” as in the manga, or how regular SSJ was initially mastered back in the Cell arc. In order for that to be the case, Vegeta must be in his regular SSJ Blue form that looks the same as always. This, on the other hand, was clearly an Ascension, into something greater, something higher. Something beyond. It was a literal transformation. Heck it’s even called “Beyond Blue” and “Limit Breaker”. It’s the Next Level. Literally.
So why even deny it?

I never said the two forms are even close or similar, you still don't get it. You used ASS as an example, as that is NOT an ACTUAL form. So why Mastered SSB doesn't count? Just why? This is like saying that Grade 2 is a transformation but not Grade 4. It just doesn't make sense.

Mastered SSB was also called Goku's next EVOLUTION, beyond Blue. You are the only one who is denying. And Mastered SSB doesn't look exactly like the normal SSB either since it doesn't have an aura.

And Grade 3 doesn't look like normal SS at all, that still doesn't make it a different form. Grade 2 was also BEYOND normal SS, but is still normal SS.

So, again, why are you denying it? What is the logic behind this double standard? How do you know this form is different to Grade 3 in that aspect?

[mikey4111]

he achieved ASSJ off-screen

Dragon Ball Super did us a favor to show Vegeta going Super Saiyan Second Grade for the first time, also through a flashback, obviously. But we did see him transforming into it for the first time. Just like Super Saiyan transformation.

As for the new power-up, well, it's a power-up not a new tranformation per si. One could say it's the second time if they count that whatever it is that happened to Vegeta back in Movie 14.

Was that the first time though? I thought he was just showing the form to Trunks. It seemed like he expected to transform more then try to transform.

[batistabus]

Note: before anyone mentions GT, i don’t include GT for obvious reasons.

What's the obvious reason? It seems likely that, like Super Saiyan 4, this transformation wasn't created by Toriyama and will only exist in the anime.

[MisteryOne]

Note: before anyone mentions GT, i don’t include GT for obvious reasons.

What's the obvious reason? It seems likely that, like Super Saiyan 4, this transformation wasn't created by Toriyama and will only exist in the anime.

Oh, don't you know? Despite both the Super anime and GT being mainly Toei products with little barebones help by Toriyama, GT is obviously not cannon!1!

[Saturnine]

Note: before anyone mentions GT, i don’t include GT for obvious reasons.

What's the obvious reason? It seems likely that, like Super Saiyan 4, this transformation wasn't created by Toriyama and will only exist in the anime.

Oh, don't you know? Despite both the Super anime and GT being mainly Toei products with little barebones help by Toriyama, GT is obviously not cannon!1!

Super is much more of a Toriyama product than GT ever was, honestly comparing them is unfair. Not only you can know for sure what came from Toriyama by comparing the anime with the manga, but if Toei had free rein regarding Super, they'd have made many more allusions to movies and filler in much less subtle ways. Like Cooler and Bojack escaping from Hell in GT for example, even though they weren't in the story to begin with.

[Grimlock]

Was that the first time though? I thought he was just showing the form to Trunks. It seemed like he expected to transform more then try to transform.

Sometimes you just have to realize that something is there before doing anything with it. Clearly it was the first time he transformed, but obviously he did after realizing its existence.

Like Cooler and Bojack escaping from Hell in GT for example, even though they weren't in the story to begin with.

Only Cooler appears in Dragon Ball GT, Paragas appears in Movie 12. And with the appearace of the former into the anime continuity, that just tells us that Dragon Ball GT does in fact take place in the same dimension as the movies, or at least in the same dimension that Movie 5 and Movie 6 happens.

[batistabus]

What's the obvious reason? It seems likely that, like Super Saiyan 4, this transformation wasn't created by Toriyama and will only exist in the anime.

Oh, don't you know? Despite both the Super anime and GT being mainly Toei products with little barebones help by Toriyama, GT is obviously not cannon!1!

Super is much more of a Toriyama product than GT ever was, honestly comparing them is unfair. Not only you can know for sure what came from Toriyama by comparing the anime with the manga, but if Toei had free rein regarding Super, they'd have made many more allusions to movies and filler in much less subtle ways. Like Cooler and Bojack escaping from Hell in GT for example, even though they weren't in the story to begin with.

Of course Toriyama is much more involved with Super than GT...that's not even comparable. That being said, this transformation appears to be just as "legitimate" as Super Saiyan 4, Super Saiyan Rage, or Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaioken based on the fact that they are solely Toei creations. Could be wrong, but that's what it seems like at this point.

[MisteryOne]

Oh, don't you know? Despite both the Super anime and GT being mainly Toei products with little barebones help by Toriyama, GT is obviously not cannon!1!

Super is much more of a Toriyama product than GT ever was, honestly comparing them is unfair. Not only you can know for sure what came from Toriyama by comparing the anime with the manga, but if Toei had free rein regarding Super, they'd have made many more allusions to movies and filler in much less subtle ways. Like Cooler and Bojack escaping from Hell in GT for example, even though they weren't in the story to begin with.

Of course Toriyama is much more involved with Super than GT...that's not even comparable. That being said, this transformation appears to be just as "legitimate" as Super Saiyan 4, Super Saiyan Rage, or Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaioken based on the fact that they are solely Toei creations. Could be wrong, but that's what it seems like at this point.

This. The similarities with SSIkari seem to be too much for it not being a Toei created form. And seeing how Toriyama also "approved" GT and SS4, this new form is not more "cannon" than SS4'

That being said, by now we do know that you CAN'T know everything that was from Toriyama by just looking at both manga and anime. Super Saiyan Goku Black and Vegetto say hello. As far as we know, Toriyama definetly doesn't help Toei with their version of Super to the point of saying that is unfair to compare it to GT for certain things.

[DragonBallFoodie]

Wow, huh... congratulations, i guess? See, the mere second fiddle can also get something nice once in a while. Good for him!

Didn't his son Trunks manage something before him, both in Z and S?

[Sora Saiyan]

Toriyama also "approved" GT and SS4, this new form is not more "cannon" than SS4'

Do you have a source for this claim about him approving SSJ4? The only one I’ve ever seen is this.

For GT, all I did was just come up with the title, design the initial main cast and some of the machines, and also do a few images. However, I was able to rest easy handing things over to the excellent staff, who had continued on DragonBall for all this time. In particular, the animator Nakatsuru-kun is amazingly skilled, and mastered the peculiarities of my pictures in no time at all, to the point where there were even times when I couldn't tell whether I had drawn a certain character design, or if he had. For instance, one of Nakatsuru-kun's designs is "Super Saiyan 4", which appears in GT, and the picture above is a portrait that I drew looking off it. Did I draw it well?