Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

[p-hyvo]

Also that page is including Vegetto's power as a SS in that comparison. So the Super Saiyan 4 form is about as strong as Potara Fusion with the 50x SS multiplier added to it, only possibly a bit weaker.

From Herms "Jumping all the way into Super, in ep.114 (2017), Vados describes the Potara as increasing Caulifla/Kale’s power by "tens of times” (数十倍), which you may recall is the same description earlier given to SS4 Gogeta compared with a regular SS4."
So fusions is both users powers added together(users must be comparable in power that you might as well say the fusion multiplies one users power by 2, then that power gets multiplied by up to 100x as tens of times refers to anywhere from 10x-100x multiplier meaning that a base form fused individual is at least 200x stronger than their non fused counterparts, then the user goes Super Saiyan for example and gets 50x stronger than that. So to make the leaps in power we see work that means SS Vegetto is around 10,000x stronger than Base Goku or Base Vegeta.. and that is only MAYBE stronger than the Super Saiyan 4 form. So Super Saiyan 4 at its lowest estimate gives around 4,000x - 10,000x boost in power, while at its highest estimate being 80x the power of SS3 making it 32,000x the users base power.

The postwar formula vados gave us can't work in dbz for obvious reasons. Don't even try to make it fit, it can't.vegetto was stronger than ssj3 Goku in z, and by far.
Much probably, Carlos told us the formula she knew, the one that works for kaioshins. There is no reason to think that some mortals used postwar in universe 6, and even if someone did, there is no reason to think that she was there at that moment.
It can't work for kefla too, unless you do something like (aFP+bFPhbFP) x tens (that being the multiplication of ssjg3 caulifla and mastered ssj berserker Kale)

Said so, in z ssj4 depends on ssj vegetto

[Koitsukai]

I always thought it was something like that
  SSj3 x10 = ozaru x ssj / ssj3

Super Saiyan 4 is essentially a Saiyan using Super Saiyan 3, Great Ape, and Potential Unleashed all in one form almost without any of the other forms drawbacks. That is why it's so strong and that is why it helped Goku cover the astronomical Gap in power between himself and Baby Vegeta.

Super Saiyan 4 Goku would have had to be at the very least 80x the power of Super Saiyan 3 Goku to be able to even fight Golden Great Ape Baby Vegeta as PHyvo and I have picked apart earlier in this thread.

Last time in watched GT, I ended up thinking something like that.

I used to believe SS4 was SS+Ohzaru, but that multiplier equalled = x500, not that much stronger than SS3(x400). So what if it isn't regular SS but the strongest SS transformation possible, like SS3 + Ohzaru? If the ohzaru goes nuts and turns SS, he shouldn't just stop at SS1, if the saiyan is really out of control maybe he goes SS2 or SS3 while Ohzaru. And if he is in control, why couldn't he go SS2 or SS3 as ohzaru as well?

[p-hyvo]

I always thought it was something like that
  SSj3 x10 = ozaru x ssj / ssj3

Super Saiyan 4 is essentially a Saiyan using Super Saiyan 3, Great Ape, and Potential Unleashed all in one form almost without any of the other forms drawbacks. That is why it's so strong and that is why it helped Goku cover the astronomical Gap in power between himself and Baby Vegeta.

Super Saiyan 4 Goku would have had to be at the very least 80x the power of Super Saiyan 3 Goku to be able to even fight Golden Great Ape Baby Vegeta as PHyvo and I have picked apart earlier in this thread.

Last time in watched GT, I ended up thinking something like that.

I used to believe SS4 was SS+Ohzaru, but that multiplier equalled = x500, not that much stronger than SS3(x400). So what if it isn't regular SS but the strongest SS transformation possible, like SS3 + Ohzaru? If the ohzaru goes nuts and turns SS, he shouldn't just stop at SS1, if the saiyan is really out of control maybe he goes SS2 or SS3 while Ohzaru. And if he is in control, why couldn't he go SS2 or SS3 as ohzaru as well?

Realistically, considering that baby vegeta was worried about GO, it has to be ssj3 oozaru or else it wouldn't make sense. And ssj4 should be x10 of that

[QuakingStar]

Again tens of times for fusion was used in GT too, also in order for Goku to cover an 80x gap in power between himself and Babyu Vegeta he would need to have a overall huge jump in power. So SS4 gives 4,000 bare minimum, 10,000 times power going by the fusion comparison, and if we account for Goku needing to get 80x Stronger than his SS3 form to fight Baby Vegeta then 32,000 times base power. I think 4,000x base power is just the forms multiplier alone, not accounting for any of the users Potential. You add the potential and the form can go up to 32,000 the users base power in Goku's case for example

[p-hyvo]

Again tens of times for fusion was used in GT too, also in order for Goku to cover an 80x gap in power between himself and Babyu Vegeta he would need to have a overall huge jump in power. So SS4 gives 4,000 bare minimum, 10,000 times power going by the fusion comparison, and if we account for Goku needing to get 80x Stronger than his SS3 form to fight Baby Vegeta then 32,000 times base power. I think 4,000x base power is just the forms multiplier alone, not accounting for any of the users Potential. You add the potential and the form can go up to 32,000 the users base power in Goku's case for example

In the case of xeno gohan is base x mystic x ssj4, and that's broken

Anyway, I insist in saying that x4000 ist enough anyway, it's just equal to ssj3 golden oozaru, ssj4 has to be more than that. And I don't see the multiplier change by the user too. It's too headcanon

[Hugo Boss]

When they say “tens of times”, they are not literally saying you have to pick Goku and multiply his strength by “tens of times”, for God’s sake. It’s a lot simpler if we just avoid thinking this up as over-pedantic RPG formulas and more like a vague “tremendously stronger”.

[QuakingStar]

The point is simple, SS4 transformation on its own is compared to SS Vegito in power. SS4 also more than covered a 80x SS3 power gap in GT Baby Saga. GT Vegeta who's base is weaker than GT Goku's ends up tied with Goku when both are SS4. Super Saiyan 4 Goku at full power in the Baby Saga was more than a match for Full Power Golden Great Ape Baby Vegeta. So Super Saiyan 4 is indeed stronger than GGA. Super Saiyan 4 is also treated as an equal to Super Saiyan Blue in the Heroes Anime and Manga. Super Saiyan 4 also enhances the users Saiyan Power ability in too as during Goku's battle against Eis Shenron he was frozen solid by him, requiring Nuova Shenron's aid to escape. Afterwards however, Goku adapted to and became completely unaffected by Eis Shenrons next usage of the attack as he instantly broke free while completely unfazed from the event. Later, against Syn Shenron, despite being blinded by Eis, once recharged by the other Saiyans' ki, Goku adapted so completely from Syn's previous assault that just using his other senses let him react to all of the Shadow Dragon's attacks effortlessly. We know that like SS3 once the user gets too low on energy they will revert to base form, we also know that if the user takes a large amount of damage they will revert to base form. We also know that Super Saiyan 4 can absorb energy attacks with no problem as SS4 Goku did vs GGA Baby Vegeta.

[Hulk10]

I think its rather pointless to put a multiplier on SSJ4 since we know so little about the form.

[p-hyvo]

I think its rather pointless to put a multiplier on SSJ4 since we know so little about the form.

Actually we can calculate guku's ssj4 and dbh gives us an idea about gohan's. Dragon ball gt perfect files states that ssj4 is more like a potential unlocked, so it should have a different multiplier for every user

[ankokudaishogun]

SS4=Ultimate+stronger body that can sustain greater stress therefore making it even more effective?

It would fit with Gohan:Xeno going SS4 from Ultimate and not becoming unfathomable stronger but "just" a whole lot stronger: in his case he "only" got an upgraded body while his Potential was already unleashed

[QuakingStar]

It's not just a potential unlock, its that plus a multiplier which is why it is so strong, it was referred to the strongest form up to GT, with scans showing SS3 Goku and Vegetto together showing that with only a SS3 Fusion being "maybe" stronger than the form itself. I originally thought it was only referring to SS Vegito until I saw the scans too and saw the context. Meaning SS4 itself is far stronger than I thought it was

[Hulk10]

I think its rather pointless to put a multiplier on SSJ4 since we know so little about the form.

Actually we can calculate guku's ssj4 and dbh gives us an idea about gohan's. Dragon ball gt perfect files states that ssj4 is more like a potential unlocked, so it should have a different multiplier for every user

I do agree that its different for every person.

[QuakingStar]

Of course it is different for every person, every person has different potential. The SS4 form has a set multiplier PLUS the fact that it unlocks each persons potential for the duration of the form

[Hulk10]

Of course it is different for every person, every person has different potential. The SS4 form has a set multiplier PLUS the fact that it unlocks each persons potential for the duration of the form

Good point.

[ankokudaishogun]

The SS4 form has a set multiplier

do we KNOW that for sure?
Because I don't remember any source

[Hulk10]

I don't remember any either.

[QuakingStar]

It doesn't exactly have one officially, but if we use logic and extrapolate from what IS given officially, then Super Saiyan 4's set multiplier(does not include each different persons potential) is at the least x4,000 base power and that was the lowball number that was discussed. Super Saiyan 4 is stronger than the GGA form, as Baby before GGA was already a in a different world of power compared to SS3 Goku with his tail, then Baby goes GGA.. Goku Goes SS4 and is able to beat GGA Baby. Showing that the SS4 Multiplier combined with Goku's potential put him above a GGA Baby who was already far stronger than pre SS4 Goku before Baby even became a GGA. Another words the power that SS4 brings is astronomical and ridiculous

[p-hyvo]

Ssj4 is a potential ulocked form, so the multiplier isnt set at all and changes with the user.
For now, the most powerful ssj4 is gohan's, as Dragon ball heroes implies.
In the first saga of the game, gt gohan becomes ssj4 during the s17 arc and helps Goku agsinst 17 . Again, during the shadow Dragons saga, ssj4 broly shows off and gohan helps his father, demonstrating to be stronger than him.
Since Goku>>>gohan in gt, I personally estimate gohan's ssj4 to have a multiplier 30 times higher than goku's ssj4 going by this.

Plus, in the latest saga of the game, xeno mystic gohan is in the same tier as xeno ssj4 Goku and gravy. Then, gohan goes ssj4 and he's able to help ssj4 xeno vegeta actively against finn, demonstrating to be even a bit stronger.
In heroes mystic seems to be =ssj3 as a multiplier, because base xeno gohan and base xeno trunks are in the same tier, and they both are ssj4 xeno Goku tier using their ssj3 and mystic states respectively.
That makes xeno gohan's ssj4 around 200 times stronger than his mystic form going by the gt perfect files that stsets that ssj4 vegeta is tens/dozens times stronger than a regular ssj4 (personally, I give vegeta a x180 multiplier on top of ssj4 Goku) ,while in xeno Goku and vegeta's case ssj4 is 100x their ssj3.

[Hulk10]

The form is pretty incredible. Imagine the power DBS Broly would have in that form.

[QuakingStar]

I think you meant Gogeta being tens of times stronger than a normal SS4, also tens of times only goes up to 100x, so that means SS4 Gogeta is about 100x stronger than SS4 Goku + SS4 Vegeta

Fusion is A + B x 100.. or 1x2x100 = x200, and when that fusion becomes SS3 then that makes it x400 more. so with SS3 Vegito is about 1x2x100x400 = x80,000.. meaning that SS3 Vegito is x80,000 stronger than either base Goku or Base Vegeta. Super Saiyan 4 transformation is compared in power to SS3 and Vegito together and the context shows it is referring to the full possible power of Vegito in the Buu Saga which would be SS3 Vegito.. so Super Saiyan 4 gives about 80,000x base power level, for Gohan that figure would be higher due to the fact he has higher potential, meaning SS4 is about 20x the power of GGA which is about 10x the power of SS3.