DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

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Yuli Ban
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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by Yuli Ban » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:56 pm

Shaddy wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:45 am I kind of hate the character designs honestly. Nakatsuru was slapping highlights everywhere long before Yamamuro, but the borrowing of that trait was part of what lead to his devolution. Even beyond that though, you still get a lot of rigidity to them that wasn't there before. So many straight lines, hairstyles that used to be crazy and frizzy becoming short and pointy, Vegeta becoming way too fucking tall, and the fashion sense being just...off for most characters. Worse then that is the villains, who have suffered a huge loss in terms of facial variety, and have little going on in other parts of their anatomy. I've made this joke before, but which GT villain is this?
Image

Is it Rild? Omega Shenron? Don Kia?

Yes, all of the above.
I forget where (likely 4chan), but I've heard it called the "Neander-chin" (ADD moment: Neanderthals probably didn't have chins)
Image

This same Chad chin + sloped forehead design was used for so many villains in GT and I never liked it, not even really on Skinny/Grey Boo (who is the first one who had it, IIRC). It fit for Yi Xing Long/Omega Shenron because it does have a vaguely inhuman dragon-esque quality. But we got it for Bebi and Super 17 as well, on top of the other Shadow Dragons, as well as other characters like Ledgic and Rildo.
That, the ugly color palette (made worse by that "corruption of Earth" in the last arc) and the Funimation dub's use of edgy drop-D rap rock always made GT feel so cold and metallic to me. Even though it wasn't any darker than Dragon Ball Z ever got, its colors seemed so desaturated and lifeless. It's sad because GT could've been pretty solid if it lasted as long as Super did, but eh.... see if you can follow me on this.
It felt like it was written by a fan of Dragon Ball Z. You know what I mean? You can quote me on this: the Chadly Chins and Ugly Colors of GT were one minor aspect in the larger mess that made the show feel like what would happen if Toei employed an American to make a sequel to Dragon Ball. Except that American is neither the Funimation-only DBZ fan whose only other references to how to write a story are other shonen anime and superhero movies nor a Kunzait-tier fan who'd actually know what they were doing stylistically. No, it's like it was made by one of those middling-level fans who actually watched Dragon Ball from the start and heard of Dr. Slump and knows the basics about "comedy adventure first, action-packed dramedy later" and that China exists and made a story Dragon Ball was based on (no disrespect to any type of DB fan, of course; just being dramatic for the post).
It's like watching someone (like an American who doesn't know why British literature feels the way it does) try to create a sequel trilogy to Harry Potter when the only other "fantasy" thing they know are some stereotypical Arthurian/Tolkienesque settings in video games, some blockbuster movies, clip art from elementary school, maybe some memes about Twilight and urban fantasy shows, and Harry Potter itself, and the only thing they really took from Harry Potter is that the lead character is the plucky Chosen One who always comes out on top, the bad guys wear black robes and are basically Nazis, most of the school year doesn't involve a direct conflict with Voldemort, a war happened, and the series went from children's literature to borderline YA. So surely books 8, 9, and 10 should go from childlike fantasy comedy to "dark and serious" fantasy. Maybe Harry, Ron, and Hermione can even be magically de-aged and have to go back through Hogwarts with their children, complete with all the immaturity of their child selves despite the fact they're actually adults. Harry Potter GT: Voldemort's Revenge, coming soon to a bookshelf near you.
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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by Nokra » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:46 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:53 pm
Nokra wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:37 pm
sunsetshimmer wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:44 pm

What was bad about this ep? It was very fun. Kid Goku losing due to tickle from like the weakest child on Earth was ridiculous and Majuub losing to Satan was Buu's decision to keep Satan as a champ since he wanted to retire after losing his best friend, it was very hearthwarming scene. Goku obivously wouldn't use SSJ4 against Vegeta lol, they wanted to spar, not fight to death, proved by a fact that Vegeta actually laughed when Goku said he can't fight with empty stomach. And Vegeta isn't really kind of person that would use transformation Goku doesn't have either. He wants to prove who is stronger, not who has stronger transformation. He isn't that dumb to actually think about coming after SSJ4 Goku with only having SSJ2.
I don't remember if Goku was taking that fight against the kid seriously but if he were that's probably why the other person has a problem with the scene maybe? I personally didn't really mind it since I think it was meant to be more of a gag fight than anything and thought it was kinda funny. Although I'm curious if you would still be fine with Goku losing a fight to a kid by being tickled if it happened in DBS?
He was laughing that he lost so he obviously didn't care about that, especially considering it was a kid division. He was only having fun. And why would i complain about the same scene in DBS? DBS has some good gags, not much but some of them were cool and it's more comedic series than DBZ which is one of the very few good sides about this series. Goku losing to a kid is gag scene so no one should be upset about that but people are just like they were upset about Vegeta losing to Arale in DBS and that was one of the best episodes in entire Super.
Thank you for reminding me. I vaguely remembered the fight being more comedic than serious but wasn't totally sure. It's been a while since I've watched all of GT. And I brought up the DBS thing because it seems like you really hate the show so I thought if a scene like the aforementioned was in it you'd dislike it. Guess I was wrong. Sorry. And yeah, I remember a lot of Vegeta fans being angry about Arale beating up Vegeta even though that whole episode was meant to be comedic and full of gags.

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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:51 pm

Things I loved:

-The music, the original one, I never cared too much for the dub score. It's nostalgic, invigorating, it's anything you want it to be.

-Best opening of the entire franchise

-Great endings

-The idea of Baby and the Shadow Dragons

-Designs of most serious villains: Baby, Rildo, Ledic or whatever his name was, Omega, Suu and San shenron. Even though like someone else pointed out already, some of them have pretty much the same face.

-Designs of SS4, Majuub, Goten, Pan, Giru, Bulma

-Clothing of Goku, Vegeta, Goten. It was nice leaving behind the orange gi, Vegeta looking like a regular guy and Goten looking pretty neat.

-Vegeta's haircut, it made him look younger and tougher, but I would've loved it if he regained it's original lenght after Baby left his body.

-I sort of liked the color palette, it gave a creepy vibe that I enjoyed and went along with the show, but the slice of life parts of the show
seemed out of place with it, I can't deny that. But didn't like the Shadow Dragon's corrupting the atmosphere, the sky looked like a 7 year old's pajamas.

-Even though is slow-paced, takes(steals?) gags directly from ODB and is pretty boring, I enjoy the Grand Tour throughout the universe. Specially the final portion of the trip.

-Enjoyed the change of scenery, we had enough of barren lands and deserts, it was refreshing to have things going on in the cities.



Things I hated:

-Those lazy awful drawings every third episode, Uchiyama was the name of the culprit IIRC? I still can't enjoy the final bout between Goku and Baby, or SS4 beating Omega Shenron.

-Vegeta's moustache

-The idea of Kid Goku, but specially never regaining his body. After achieving SS4 was the perfect chance, I had enough with Kid Goku.

-Designs: Bra looked like the cheapest hooker in the world (hated what they did with a character that had potential too), 18, Kuririn, Videl looking as unattractive as she could possible be, Pan's clothing, Trunks as a whole, Papayaman, Dr. Myuu was Dr. Gero but with different haircolor, glasses and clothing, and they brought Gero back... and placed him right next to Myuu. The Pilaf gang looked so old it creeped me out a little.

-Designs of crappy villains such as that stupid whip guy, Ruudo who looked like a toy, the Mega Cannon Sygma to name a few. Super 17 is not a favourite of mine AT ALL, I never understood why he had his shoulders uncovered. Also hated 4 out of 7 dragons. Not just their designs.

-This one is controversial, but I can't stand redhead Gogeta. I know it was to differenciate from Goku and Vegeta but that color just does not work for me at all. Nor does the brown fur.

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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by sunsetshimmer » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:11 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:51 pm -Those lazy awful drawings every third episode, Uchiyama was the name of the culprit IIRC? I still can't enjoy the final bout between Goku and Baby, or SS4 beating Omega Shenron.
This. Uchiyama ruined so many good episodes, not just in GT but also in Z.
Goku was about as small as Oozaru Baby's finger in all previous episodes, yet in their last fight Goku was only like 2 or 3 times smaller than Baby at best. That's so awful.

If this guy worked on Super then i can see every third ToP episode looking like RoF arc. May his soul rest in peace, but he did a terrible thing to franchise.
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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:29 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:11 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:51 pm -Those lazy awful drawings every third episode, Uchiyama was the name of the culprit IIRC? I still can't enjoy the final bout between Goku and Baby, or SS4 beating Omega Shenron.
This. Uchiyama ruined so many good episodes, not just in GT but also in Z.
Goku was about as small as Oozaru Baby's finger in all previous episodes, yet in their last fight Goku was only like 2 or 3 times smaller than Baby at best. That's so awful.
I would say that's nitpicky more than awful.

Overall, GT's fundamental design issue is it's blandness.
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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:48 pm

Also, wow. Do you guys (Not of all of you guys, just most of you guys) really not like the Shadow Dragons' designs? Not even Omega, or Yi Xing Long, whatever you wanna call him, who I thought would've been regarded as the coolest looking Dragon? What is it about their designs that you don't like?
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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by sunsetshimmer » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:04 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:48 pm Also, wow. Do you guys (Not of all of you guys, just most of you guys) really not like the Shadow Dragons' designs? Not even Omega, or Yi Xing Long, whatever you wanna call him, who I thought would've been regarded as the coolest looking Dragon? What is it about their designs that you don't like?
I like all designs except for Rage Shenron and true forms of Naturon and Oceanus.
Omega's design is certainly much better than his personality which puts him very low compared to most other dragons. He really looks and feels like the final boss of franchise. As much as i like Buu he never had that final boss feeling just like entire saga. King Piccolo seemed like a good final boss, especially considering how dark DB became back then, but Piccolo Jr. kinda ruined it for me.
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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by Nokra » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:12 pm

I'm somewhat tempted to create a DBS version of this thread... :think:

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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:52 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:48 pm Also, wow. Do you guys (Not of all of you guys, just most of you guys) really not like the Shadow Dragons' designs? Not even Omega, or Yi Xing Long, whatever you wanna call him, who I thought would've been regarded as the coolest looking Dragon? What is it about their designs that you don't like?
I just don't perceive most of them as threatening. Before finally watching the arc, back when I just heard about some dragons being the final bosses, in my mind I envisioned 7 Omega shenrons, and what we got was lackluster for most of them. Let's see them:

-The first dragon was ok for a gag character, his skillset was not impressive. He was funny, the latin dub made him funnier but after all he looked weak and he was weak. I just can't take him seriously, if he was someone they met travelling across the universe, I'd be fine with him, but as a final boss I just don't like him. Maybe if his plot was more serious I would find him more appealing, like Toppo who looked like a joke but was no joke at all.

-Then came the electric dragon. He looked awful to me, the worst I'd say, even for laughs, like they didn't even try. He was short, fat, like a bad-looking penguin and a really fat bird did the fusion dance. His skillset was interesting though, but just like his design, his plot seemed rushed and filler-like. Uchiyama's crew didn't help either.

-Then that Twister Dragon that looked like a sleeping beauty, but his true form like a gargoyle. Nothing threatening about him either. Also find him too crowded, he had too much things going on, jewelery, long hair, that gown.

-The gopher Dragon made me laugh in the first episode, in both original and latin dub. I can accept the concept of a dragon being Baby/Buu-like, taking the personality and appearence after his host, but his first iteration seemed stupid and nothing more than a gag, after getting Pan he looked so weird but at least was the first threatening dragon of the arc. His true form was just sad. So, this one was also nice for gags but just that. Maybe if he got inside a lion or a wolf, it would've been better.

Overall, I find them too light-hearted looking in a very dark arc. They are either scrawny, fat or too short. And they all lose steam when trying to be funny and evil at the same time.

Suu, San and Omega are awesome to me. They are scary, they look evil and they look strong.

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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by ABED » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:04 pm

The Dragons are supposed to build to the final confrontation. It's meant to crescendo. I actually quite like the first Dragon. He may not be the strongest, but his power was interesting. A tad reminiscent of Bacterian, but still gives more variety than a bunch of really strong bad guys.
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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by Vijay » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:24 am

sunsetshimmer wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:11 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:51 pm -Those lazy awful drawings every third episode, Uchiyama was the name of the culprit IIRC? I still can't enjoy the final bout between Goku and Baby, or SS4 beating Omega Shenron.
This. Uchiyama ruined so many good episodes, not just in GT but also in Z.
Goku was about as small as Oozaru Baby's finger in all previous episodes, yet in their last fight Goku was only like 2 or 3 times smaller than Baby at best. That's so awful.

If this guy worked on Super then i can see every third ToP episode looking like RoF arc. May his soul rest in peace, but he did a terrible thing to franchise.
To be honest, I hated the man all these years. But on the bright side....dude's got his perks too

As rewatching some of his works in og DB & Z...noticed how his episodes tend to have classic Toriyama feels. The fights would be fast-paced...which along with good storyboarding...would completly mask its glaring flaws.

For instance, take Yamamuro's episode (ASSJ Vegeta's Final Flash episode or SSJ2 Kid Gohan vs Cell jr's) and compare it to Uchiyama's episode from DB (Goku vs Piccolo Daimou Round 2 or Goku vs Jeice & Baata).

Yamamuro's would be slow, dragged with drama & tension despite their glorious art & animation...while Uchiyama's episodes would be fast, well-edited & even have some cool moments (Goku's kaioken X2 on nappa comes to mind)

Its day and night.

Hell, even the very next episode following Goku's legendary SSJ transformation done by Masaki Sato....which was done by Uchiyama seemed vastly superior. Juts give it a watch.

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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by Soppa Saia People » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:11 am

most last house episodes really aren't that bad till the cell arc, i think after the piccolo vs #17 episodes is where last house episodes start getting noticeably worst and then after the trunks vs cell fight is where it gets distractingly bad. yeah it was never really complex and rarely fluid, but i don't think their episodes were ever truly bad till that point, and i really loved how round and cute the art was.
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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by Nokra » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:53 am

Besides Uub at the beginning of GT, Baby and the SS4 Gogeta vs. Omega Shenron fight I don't really think GT's fight scenes were good. Which is bad since its a show based on fighting :thumbdown:

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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by omegacwa » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:00 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:11 am most last house episodes really aren't that bad till the cell arc, i think after the piccolo vs #17 episodes is where last house episodes start getting noticeably worst and then after the trunks vs cell fight is where it gets distractingly bad. yeah it was never really complex and rarely fluid, but i don't think their episodes were ever truly bad till that point, and i really loved how round and cute the art was.
If this is who I'm thinking of then I fully agree. The art style didn't look odd when compared to Toriyama's Dragon Ball and early Z art but looks horrible compared to the later parts of Z and GT. Every time one of his episodes came up I was pissed.

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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by EXBadguy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:04 pm

I liked all the designs for the Z fighters with the exception of Pan and Trunks. Vegeta's denim tanktop design in GT was the most badass one IMO. As for the villains, only the main ones stand out, with Super Baby Vegeta 2 being my favorite and very iconic.
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Re: DBGT: General Designs/Visuals & Music Opinions

Post by Vijay » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:11 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:48 pm Also, wow. Do you guys (Not of all of you guys, just most of you guys) really not like the Shadow Dragons' designs? Not even Omega, or Yi Xing Long, whatever you wanna call him, who I thought would've been regarded as the coolest looking Dragon? What is it about their designs that you don't like?
The Dragons don't look like Dragons. That's my main criticism. Forget abt looking like Dragons...how are ya supposed to even take Pink Duck, Toad & Mole as cool-looking intimidating badass villains as final boss villains. Nouva, Ice & Omega look jaded, bland color pallete & poor voice acting as generic villains...not to mention poor fighting style, finishers & ripoff of various Majin Boo traits as regeneration, absorptions etc

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