Would Level Sets be more sucessfull if Funimation wait more?

[Robo4900]

That's not what I wrote at all. You think they were wrong to not bring back the level sets. There's no way they don't lose money with that release. It's not like they pulled those sets to be dicks. They overestimated the demand and underestimated the cost. If a business can't do something cost effectively, they shouldn't do it.

And now you're not paying attention to what I wrote.

Yes, we get it, the Levels didn't sell well enough. The solution isn't "let's do a shitty watercolour mess", and yet they went that way, and that was a horrendous thing for Funimation to do. That is my point.

A lot of effort was put into the Levels, there's no reason they couldn't have figured out a cheaper, less refined way to remaster DBZ that didn't result in a pile of shit thrown at our faces.

The devil's advocate reasonably says that yes, the Levels didn't sell well enough. That's as far as this goes. And you're arguing against my criticism of Funi replacing them with the Season BDs, and now the 30th anniversary sets, with that. Again, yes, we get it, the Levels didn't sell well enough, and it's not justifiable to literally continue the Levels exactly as they were. That's not what I'm arguing.

[funrush]

They probably would have sold better if they waited, but I think the pricing/packaging was the main issue.

You could get the Season 1 orange brick for $20 on Amazon, vs. the entire Level 1 for $70.

That's like 50 cents an episode vs. $2 an episode. Only hardcore fans are gonna pay that much for a 20 year old show.

[ABED]

That's not what I wrote at all. You think they were wrong to not bring back the level sets. There's no way they don't lose money with that release. It's not like they pulled those sets to be dicks. They overestimated the demand and underestimated the cost. If a business can't do something cost effectively, they shouldn't do it.

And now you're not paying attention to what I wrote.

Yes, we get it, the Levels didn't sell well enough. The solution isn't "let's do a shitty watercolour mess", and yet they went that way, and that was a horrendous thing for Funimation to do. That is my point.

A lot of effort was put into the Levels, there's no reason they couldn't have figured out a cheaper, less refined way to remaster DBZ that didn't result in a pile of shit thrown at our faces.

The devil's advocate reasonably says that yes, the Levels didn't sell well enough. That's as far as this goes. And you're arguing against my criticism of Funi replacing them with the Season BDs, and now the 30th anniversary sets, with that. Again, yes, we get it, the Levels didn't sell well enough, and it's not justifiable to literally continue the Levels exactly as they were. That's not what I'm arguing.

I did read what you wrote, but I hate it when people get all hyperbolic about this crap. Really, not giving you the release you want, as valid as it might be, is evil?

[KBABZ]

Really, not giving you the release you want, as valid as it might be, is evil?

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater and conforming to the lowest common denominator just to make more money is evil.

[Robo4900]

I did read what you wrote, but I hate it when people get all hyperbolic about this crap. Really, not giving you the release you want, as valid as it might be, is evil?

Being this destructive to the art? Yes, evil.

[ABED]

I did read what you wrote, but I hate it when people get all hyperbolic about this crap. Really, not giving you the release you want, as valid as it might be, is evil?

Being this destructive to the art? Yes, evil.

Wrong. just wrong. This isn't on the level of destroying the Pieta. The series exists in its original format somewhere. It's like damaging a reproduction.

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater and conforming to the lowest common denominator just to make more money is evil.

Shortsighted and annoying, sure, but not evil. Using words like evil is a bastardization of the term and shows lack of perspective. What ethical standard/principle has been violated?

[Robo4900]

Wrong. just wrong. This isn't on the level of destroying the Pieta. The series exists in its original format somewhere. It's like damaging a reproduction.

The official rightsholders doing everything in their power to ensure no one can see it in any form other than the destroyed version?
Yes, evil.

See also: Harmony Gold holding the Macross franchise hostage forever.
Yes, the art technically exists, but you can't help but feel there's a deliberate obstruction going on. No one except existing hardcore fans who are willing to illegally obtain stuff that just isn't available, can avoid this obstruction.

Shortsighted and annoying, sure, but not evil. Using words like evil is a bastardization of the term and shows lack of perspective. What ethical standard/principle has been violated?

You can be evil without comitting an atrocity unto all of mankind.
Deleting someone's save file in a video game that they've spent months on and could never recover? That's evil. It's just on a small scale. And this is the same. It's destroying the art, ruining peoples' joy; maliciously messing with people.

And y'know what, they didn't even need to do this. The Levels were cited as too expensive because of the manual cleanup process. And yet, on the Season BD interview with Matt O'Hara...

The software tool allows us to go through frame by frame. So we're using a combination of paint tools, which we refer to as "dust and fix". We have 5 engineers working all the time. This is a process that...just that manual process of going through and evaluating and identifying where there may be a frame that needs to be painted over or we need to borrow some information from another frame and correct a scratch or dust or a blemish on the film. That process can take over a week just for one engineer to work on

So... They were able to do intensive manual cleanup on the cheap, crappy sets... In fact, this "5 engineers" thing sounds just like the work done on the "dust and fix" work on the Levels...
So what was the problem with the Levels again?

Seriously... Judging from this quote, they could've turned off their disgusting DNR filtering, and the 30th sets could've been a Level-esque master, just within a frame size closer to DBox than the Levels.
And, returning to the Levels vs Season BDs expense again... Consider this: The audio on the Levels was copied from the Orange Bricks masters. Meanwhile, the Season BDs had an entirely new audio mix for the dub. The surround placements were improved, missing lines were reinstated, mixing errors were fixed... It's a new 5.1 Kikuchi mix, and a new 2.0 Johnson/Faulconer mix. And of course, they also did a little work on the Japanese track, doing some mastering work to minimise how crappy it sounds.
... All this, for 291 episodes. That can't have been cheap or quick to do.

So, what the hell have Funi been playing at?
Did they intentionally sabotage the Levels by putting so few episodes on each set, charging so much, and timing their release so poorly? Clearly they were willing to put up that 16:9 vs 4:3 poll and then throw out the results, so clearly they're willing to completely disregard fan demand... Seriously, what have they been playing at?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I'd agree that what Funimation has done with the Season sets and 30th anniversary collection isn't evil. Utterly disrespectful to the artists who worked on them and the fans who wish their hard owned money could go on the product as originally intended? Most definitely, but I wouldn't call it evil no more than I'd call George Lucas evil for replacing the practical effects in the original Star Wars with flashier updated effects like what was seen when the Death Star destroyed Alderaan. It was an insult to those who worked on these models but no one was physically harmed or robbed.

[omegacwa]

These sets must have come out when I wasn't really paying attention to the franchise. I have the American dragon box release and the blue and green bricks for DB and GT ( I also have the majority of the original dragon ball "season" sets for a lack of a better term). I had no clue that these things even existed.

[VDenter]

Agreed with Robo completely.

Funimation knows that what they are doing is complete garbage but they simply don't care.

It doesn't matter that the show exists in the original form if it becomes so inaccessible to new fans and even hardcore fans as well. The best home release is long out of print and even it had numerous issues. So even if you pay for the ludicrously over priced Dragon Boxes on Ebay you will still get a subpar experience.

To watch the show as it was intended one would need to do the following.

Buy or pirate Dragon Boxes R2
Pirate the original broadcast Audio because it can't be obtained legally (Even though Funimation has it but refuses to release it.)
Sync the OBA to the Dragon Boxes
Color correct each Episode
Rearrange the next episode previews and credits sequence for each episode.

Do all this and you would still be stuck with 480p only. Which far from ideal in 2019. THIS IS COMPLETELY INSANE!

Nobody should have to go through all these hoops just to watch the most popular anime as it was intended to be seen! As shitty as the 30th anniversary set is, i would have bought it if it had included the original broadcast audio just to own it legally and support some good decisions from Funimation but apparently they couldn't even be bothered to put even the slightest bit of effort into this anniversary set.

It just baffles my mind that so many are supporting and continually defending this garbage company. They don't deserve anyone's support.

Oh and i'm also sick of the "We have to buy this shitty set, otherwise they won't give us the good set in the future" pretzel logic that some have twisted just to justify throwing Funimation more green.

[ABED]

Wrong. just wrong. This isn't on the level of destroying the Pieta. The series exists in its original format somewhere. It's like damaging a reproduction.

The official rightsholders doing everything in their power to ensure no one can see it in any form other than the destroyed version?
Yes, evil.

See also: Harmony Gold holding the Macross franchise hostage forever.
Yes, the art technically exists, but you can't help but feel there's a deliberate obstruction going on. No one except existing hardcore fans who are willing to illegally obtain stuff that just isn't available, can avoid this obstruction.

Shortsighted and annoying, sure, but not evil. Using words like evil is a bastardization of the term and shows lack of perspective. What ethical standard/principle has been violated?

You can be evil without comitting an atrocity unto all of mankind.
Deleting someone's save file in a video game that they've spent months on and could never recover? That's evil. It's just on a small scale. And this is the same. It's destroying the art, ruining peoples' joy; maliciously messing with people.

And y'know what, they didn't even need to do this. The Levels were cited as too expensive because of the manual cleanup process. And yet, on the Season BD interview with Matt O'Hara...

The software tool allows us to go through frame by frame. So we're using a combination of paint tools, which we refer to as "dust and fix". We have 5 engineers working all the time. This is a process that...just that manual process of going through and evaluating and identifying where there may be a frame that needs to be painted over or we need to borrow some information from another frame and correct a scratch or dust or a blemish on the film. That process can take over a week just for one engineer to work on

So... They were able to do intensive manual cleanup on the cheap, crappy sets... In fact, this "5 engineers" thing sounds just like the work done on the "dust and fix" work on the Levels...
So what was the problem with the Levels again?

Seriously... Judging from this quote, they could've turned off their disgusting DNR filtering, and the 30th sets could've been a Level-esque master, just within a frame size closer to DBox than the Levels.
And, returning to the Levels vs Season BDs expense again... Consider this: The audio on the Levels was copied from the Orange Bricks masters. Meanwhile, the Season BDs had an entirely new audio mix for the dub. The surround placements were improved, missing lines were reinstated, mixing errors were fixed... It's a new 5.1 Kikuchi mix, and a new 2.0 Johnson/Faulconer mix. And of course, they also did a little work on the Japanese track, doing some mastering work to minimise how crappy it sounds.
... All this, for 291 episodes. That can't have been cheap or quick to do.

So, what the hell have Funi been playing at?
Did they intentionally sabotage the Levels by putting so few episodes on each set, charging so much, and timing their release so poorly? Clearly they were willing to put up that 16:9 vs 4:3 poll and then throw out the results, so clearly they're willing to completely disregard fan demand... Seriously, what have they been playing at?

This shows a complete lack of perspective. They aren't keeping it from you to be dicks. They are doing it because they are ignorant and want to make the picture fit the shape of people's screens. It's shortsighted, but not evil. Deleting someone's games is not evil. If it's part of a bigger pattern of intentional destruction, sure, otherwise it's being cheeky and annoying. This is a company being cheap, that's it.

DB Ireland is on the money.

What is FUNi gaining by intentionally obstructing people? Do you think they are doing this to get off on hurting their customers. I'm not even defending them, but I think it's prudent to not ascribe motives to people you don't know and factors you have no way of knowing.

Did they intentionally sabotage the Levels by putting so few episodes on each set, charging so much, and timing their release so poorly? Clearly they were willing to put up that 16:9 vs 4:3 poll and then throw out the results, so clearly they're willing to completely disregard fan demand... Seriously, what have they been playing at?

Maybe because net fans don't mean a damn thing, not in comparison to the larger audience buying their releases who likely don't know or care about the poll. Do you really think that poll is a random sampling?