King Piccolo and Dr. Gero both got their revenge

[Melee_Sovereign]

All he seems to be is the "Perfect Lifeform"

I'm pretty sure that's it. All Gero wanted to do was create the ultimate being. Why? As far as I tell, because he could. It's really not all that uncommon for scientists and engineers to develop things just to see if they can, out of sheer curiosity and/or passion, and for no other purpose beyond that. It's like, why the hell do we build race cars that go faster than what would ever be allowed on the road? Because we can.

But like.. by what metric are they (being Gero and Cell) considering himself "perfect"? He never states it, and it's certainly not in the looks department. Is it as a martial artist? Having pointed feet?

No metric, other than arrogance and narcissism, as far as I can tell.

[KBABZ]

No metric, other than arrogance and narcissism, as far as I can tell.

I'm surprised nobody called him out on it then! Kinda contributes to my feelings that, once he's achieved his Perfect form, Cell's credibility as a threat drops like a rock because he's given no post-perfection motivation. Flaunting his strength isn't exactly world-threatening and he acts calmly enough that you almost feel like you could genuinely talk him down and he wouldn't destroy the Earth!

[dbgtFO]

No metric, other than arrogance and narcissism, as far as I can tell.

I'm surprised nobody called him out on it then! Kinda contributes to my feelings that, once he's achieved his Perfect form, Cell's credibility as a threat drops like a rock because he's given no post-perfection motivation. Flaunting his strength isn't exactly world-threatening and he acts calmly enough that you almost feel like you could genuinely talk him down and he wouldn't destroy the Earth!

Perfect isn't a literal translation of the word kanzentai apparently. It's supposed to mean complete. The goal for him was just to complete his evolution.

[ABED]

I quite like the idea of Cell's post complete evolution, his only goal is to test himself and strike terror in the heart of people. The idea that he's looking to cure himself of boredom mirrors Goku in a perverse way.

[KBABZ]

Perfect isn't a literal translation of the word kanzentai apparently. It's supposed to mean complete. The goal for him was just to complete his evolution.

Wait, REALLY?! Like, seriously?? That COMPLETELY changes the context of his character!

I quite like the idea of Cell's post complete evolution, his only goal is to test himself and strike terror in the heart of people. The idea that he's looking to cure himself of boredom mirrors Goku in a perverse way.

I think more emphasis could have been placed in the "strike terror" part, haha.

[MasenkoHA]

For some reason, as a kid, I thought Dr.Gero created Cell to get revenge against 17 and 18. “You snot nosed brats were disobedient so I created this creature whose purpose is to devour you so it can become the ultimate fighter”

[KBABZ]

For some reason, as a kid, I thought Dr.Gero created Cell to get revenge against 17 and 18. “You snot nosed brats were disobedient so I created this creature whose purpose is to devour you so it can become the ultimate fighter”

Huh! Oddly enough if you ignore that Trunks and Krillin had to destroy their nucleus Cell in the revised timeline, that would actually work and might actually make MORE sense than the explanation we were given!

[ABED]

I quite like the idea of Cell's post complete evolution, his only goal is to test himself and strike terror in the heart of people. The idea that he's looking to cure himself of boredom mirrors Goku in a perverse way.

I think more emphasis could have been placed in the "strike terror" part, haha.

Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. Piccolo Daimao, was in fact motivated by causing terror and destruction. Cell's motivation was novel.

[MasenkoHA]

Perfect isn't a literal translation of the word kanzentai apparently. It's supposed to mean complete. The goal for him was just to complete his evolution.

Wait, REALLY?! Like, seriously?? That COMPLETELY changes the context of his character!

Does it? Pretty sure the context for Cell’s character was always absorb Cyborg 17 and 18 to become complete.

[MyVisionity]

完全体 (kanzentai) means a perfect/complete (完全) body/form (体).

I think that the FUNimation version put a much bigger emphasis on the idea of "perfection" in their scripts if I recall. More so than the idea of simple "completeness".

I do remember Cell in the Japanese once referring to his kanzentai form using English ("paafekutobodii"/"perfect body").

[KBABZ]

Perfect isn't a literal translation of the word kanzentai apparently. It's supposed to mean complete. The goal for him was just to complete his evolution.

Wait, REALLY?! Like, seriously?? That COMPLETELY changes the context of his character!

Does it? Pretty sure the context for Cell’s character was always absorb Cyborg 17 and 18 to become complete.

Not disputing that, but for me being "perfect" and "complete" have slightly different connotations, particularly when it comes to Perfect Cell. Complete Cell to me makes more sense as a definition, that he is incomplete until he absorbs 17 and 18, and when he is complete that there's still more room for him to be a menace to everybody. It's a little bit closer to things like Kid/Pure Buu, or Frieza's final form being his original body, and thematically makes much more sense to me.

Plus of course there's the idea that Cell's stock terms, Imperfect, Semi-Perfect and Perfect, which I've been used to since the 2000s, should possibly in fact be Incomplete, Semi-Complete and Complete.

I think that the FUNimation version put a much bigger emphasis on the idea of "perfection" in their scripts if I recall. More so than the idea of simple "completeness".

That would explain a lot, IMO.

[MasenkoHA]

Complete Cell to me makes more sense as a definition, that he is incomplete until he absorbs 17 and 18, and when he is complete that there's still more room for him to be a menace to everybody

Well...yeah that’s how he was able to come back stronger after exploding and regenerating.

I guess I always just took perfect to refer to his metamorphosis. Perfect as in his final form.

. It's a little bit closer to things like Kid/Pure Buu, or Frieza's final form being his original body, and thematically makes much more sense to me.

Freeza’s “final” form was his true form without suppressing his power. Pure Boo was Boo without any other being fused with him. Perfect Cell was Cell’s final form in his evolutionary line. Which makes Cell sound like. a Digimon or Pokemon to me.

Plus of course there's the idea that Cell's stock terms, Imperfect, Semi-Perfect and Perfect, which I've been used to since the 2000s, should possibly in fact be Incomplete, Semi-Complete and Complete.

I think Perfect Cell rolls off the tongue better than Complete Cell.

[KBABZ]

I guess I always just took perfect to refer to his metamorphosis. Perfect as in his final form.

As I alluded to earlier, I always took Perfect to refer to Cell's physical state of being, that in his Perfect Form, he is a Perfect being with no physical flaws, the physical end point all beings must ultimately end at from an evolutionary perspective. Which to me seemed ludicrous, because he has a lot of supurflous facets to his design like the spots and the two head crests and the wings and the regressed tail and no sexy abs to speak of...

Again it's similar to how in Sonic Adventure 2, Shadow is created as the Ultimate Lifeform, but being a hedgehog with giant hands, feet and head, that always came off as baffling ego-talk to me. Particularly the idea that the Ultimate Lifeform would be an anthropomorphized hedgehog, like that's what we're supposed to aspire to physically be because that's "perfect".

Hence why I feel the word Complete more accurately captures what Cell is and what he's trying to do. It doesn't have that other baggage for me like the word Perfect does, especially when Cell's catchphrase in defeat is "I AM PERFECTIOOOOOOOON!!".

[Lionel]

Maybe there was a philosophical bent to Gero's making of Cell as well. As a scientist/biologist, he likely held some strong opinions about the nature of life, its replicativeness and capacity for developing into a biologically "transcended" state. All of his other creations were either cybernetic with a human base or they were purely mechanical. Cell happened to represent the culmination not just of the greatest predatory forces with their genomes, to apply a more "Darwinian angle" to them, but he was also that final breakthrough in the bioengineering process, i.e Gero had provided life to something freshly organic).

I think Piccolo Daimou had Goku dead to rights on at least one occasion during their fight. When he unleashed his power in that omnidirectional Bakurikimaha, Goku was saved thanks only to Tenshinhan. I think Daimou can at least take comfort in knowing that Goku's victory was conditional based on the aid of others. Still, his ultimate objective of defeating the threat and continuing his megalomaniacal reign didn't pan out so the conditions of his enemy's victory and the violation of his status as the most powerful is a small comfort.

[Vijay]

Maybe there was a philosophical bent to Gero's making of Cell as well. As a scientist/biologist, he likely held some strong opinions about the nature of life, its replicativeness and capacity for developing into a biologically "transcended" state. All of his other creations were either cybernetic with a human base or they were purely mechanical. Cell happened to represent the culmination not just of the greatest predatory forces with their genomes, to apply a more "Darwinian angle" to them, but he was also that final breakthrough in the bioengineering process, i.e Gero had provided life to something freshly organic).

I think Piccolo Daimou had Goku dead to rights on at least one occasion during their fight. When he unleashed his power in that omnidirectional Bakurikimaha, Goku was saved thanks only to Tenshinhan. I think Daimou can at least take comfort in knowing that Goku's victory was conditional based on the aid of others. Still, his ultimate objective of defeating the threat and continuing his megalomaniacal reign didn't pan out so the conditions of his enemy's victory and the violation of his status as the most powerful is a small comfort.

Good point on Piccolo. But the moment when Daimou went full-power & unleashed barrage of attacks on Kid Goku by slamming him into the ground forming a crater...which Goku subsequently leapt & shoot Kamehameha at Daimou....without taking any significant damage....that was the point I noticed Daimou has nothing on Goku....absolutely nothing he may do that'll inflict fatal damage to Goku....unlike their 1st encounter that resulted in Daimou trashing Goku around without using even half of his power...that too as aged version...Old Daimou...

Tien did saved Goku frm Daimou's blast once. But the next time Daimou shoot his blast....which destroyed city landscapes...Goku rose by holding onto Kintoun...giggling...surviving...at that moment, it became 100% evident that Daimou couldn't kill Goku.

[Toxin45]

Well yeah in a sense but in piccolo’s case he feels vengeance was empty while gero’s victory ended being meaningless since Goku was eventually revived again at the end of the buu arc.