My biggest issue with Super

[Mad Swami]

I sort of started this to talk about some issues with Super not out of hate just to chat with people. I am for the most part just talking about the anime because the problem is far greater there then the manga. Dragon Ball Super.... is messy. It's not some disgraceful follow up because there is a lot there to enjoy. I think Super had an interesting idea of an overarching story but it isn't executed right. I think it's cool seeing more of the Vegeta from the Buu saga in terms of character design. I really loved the Broly movie, thought the Zamasu arc was fun with Zamasu conceptually being my favorite villain since Omega Shenron (again conceptually). Hit's cool, T.O.P has it's moments, and Battle of Gods is my personal all time favorite film. However that's the problem. Battle of Gods. In the movie we meet Beerus, the god of destruction of the universe as he heads out in search of the Super Saiyan God. Over the course of the film Goku becomes said god and fights Beerus eventually pushing the god to use a whopping 70%. The film ends beautifully as Goku and Beerus float in space with Goku completely tapped as Beerus shows his respect talking about even strong fighters than the two of them. Then there was a squeal which was meh. Then Super the anime came and retold BOG ret-conning the Beerus fight making it as if he used almost none of his power. Goku's base was revealed to be as strong as SSJ God and the series progressed and Goku kept getting stronger but never seeming to surpass Beerus except with one power Ultra Instinct. This bothers me because this means Beerus had to have used like 0.005% of his power. Beerus for no real reason pretends to have a decent fight with SSJ God Goku. It could be argued that he wanted to take on Goku to sort of groom him into a more worthy adversary but it is shown he grows to like the Saiyans over the course of the fight not before it. This change just makes Beerus seem so silly to me, why would he pretend to have a good fight when he apparently is like hundreds of time stronger. Not too mention why would Goku care about Uub? Uub is a really cool idea of a character and I really love the End of Z. Battle of Gods could work with the End of Z, Goku fights Beerus reaching a temporary state of power that he spends everyday training with no hopes of reaching. This aspect could explain Goku's sort of melancholy demeanor(personally I always thought Goku seemed saddene. Piccolo even remarks he hadn't seen Goku as happy as he was with Uub in a long time). However now why would Uub re spark Goku's fighting spirit!? There is no way Uub can compete with anyone in Super and no way at the tournament he's even as strong or stronger than Kid Buu was. So how could Goku care about Uub. Honestly Super progressing made Beerus a character I really loved seem kind of silly, and made Uub pointless. Battle of Gods should have been a one off in my opinion. Do you guys have any issues with Super?

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

My own issue with Super is that for all its nostalgia bait and magical elements, the sense of wonder that early Dragon Ball had is completely absent. Instead of unique locations with lush histories and backdrops we get an ocean cruiseliner and even more rocky wasteland.

Also, every new thing revealed is vastly more boring than the way they were originally described and no amount of fanboys jerking themselves off to Toriyama will change that.

However now why would Uub re spark Goku's fighting spirit!?

I dunno. Why would Goku give a speach about "trust" while fighting alongside Freeza and after belittling Tenshinhan for getting eliminated? These plots don't make sense and Goku is a narcissitic sociopath who just goes from one whim after another.

[Mad Swami]

My own issue with Super is that for all its nostalgia bait and magical elements, the sense of wonder that early Dragon Ball had is completely absent. Instead of unique locations with lush histories and backdrops we get an ocean cruiseliner and even more rocky wasteland.

Also, every new thing revealed is vastly more boring than the way they were originally described and no amount of fanboys jerking themselves off to Toriyama will change that.

However now why would Uub re spark Goku's fighting spirit!?

I dunno. Why would Goku give a speach about "trust" while fighting alongside Freeza and after belittling Tenshinhan for getting eliminated? These plots don't make sense and Goku is a narcissitic sociopath who just goes from one whim after another.

Yeah the oddities are kind of annoying and changes of character

[mute_proxy]

The current manga arc revealed that the god powers of the absorbed fat Kaioshin were transfered to evil Buu after he split into two. Evil Buu was reincarnated into Uub, that could be a way of making Uub stronger

[Rory]

The current manga arc revealed that the god powers of the absorbed fat Kaioshin were transfered to evil Buu after he split into two. Evil Buu was reincarnated into Uub, that could be a way of making Uub stronger

This kind of shit sounds so cool, but I know that they'll do absolutely nothing with it.

[Kataphrut]

I sort of started this to talk about some issues with Super not out of hate just to chat with people. I am for the most part just talking about the anime because the problem is far greater there then the manga. Dragon Ball Super.... is messy. It's not some disgraceful follow up because there is a lot there to enjoy. I think Super had an interesting idea of an overarching story but it isn't executed right. I think it's cool seeing more of the Vegeta from the Buu saga in terms of character design. I really loved the Broly movie, thought the Zamasu arc was fun with Zamasu conceptually being my favorite villain since Omega Shenron (again conceptually). Hit's cool, T.O.P has it's moments, and Battle of Gods is my personal all time favorite film. However that's the problem. Battle of Gods. In the movie we meet Beerus, the god of destruction of the universe as he heads out in search of the Super Saiyan God. Over the course of the film Goku becomes said god and fights Beerus eventually pushing the god to use a whopping 70%. The film ends beautifully as Goku and Beerus float in space with Goku completely tapped as Beerus shows his respect talking about even strong fighters than the two of them. Then there was a squeal which was meh. Then Super the anime came and retold BOG ret-conning the Beerus fight making it as if he used almost none of his power. Goku's base was revealed to be as strong as SSJ God and the series progressed and Goku kept getting stronger but never seeming to surpass Beerus except with one power Ultra Instinct. This bothers me because this means Beerus had to have used like 0.005% of his power. Beerus for no real reason pretends to have a decent fight with SSJ God Goku. It could be argued that he wanted to take on Goku to sort of groom him into a more worthy adversary but it is shown he grows to like the Saiyans over the course of the fight not before it. This change just makes Beerus seem so silly to me, why would he pretend to have a good fight when he apparently is like hundreds of time stronger. Not too mention why would Goku care about Uub? Uub is a really cool idea of a character and I really love the End of Z. Battle of Gods could work with the End of Z, Goku fights Beerus reaching a temporary state of power that he spends everyday training with no hopes of reaching. This aspect could explain Goku's sort of melancholy demeanor(personally I always thought Goku seemed saddene. Piccolo even remarks he hadn't seen Goku as happy as he was with Uub in a long time). However now why would Uub re spark Goku's fighting spirit!? There is no way Uub can compete with anyone in Super and no way at the tournament he's even as strong or stronger than Kid Buu was. So how could Goku care about Uub. Honestly Super progressing made Beerus a character I really loved seem kind of silly, and made Uub pointless. Battle of Gods should have been a one off in my opinion. Do you guys have any issues with Super?

Could you maybe...hit the return key once or twice? This is hard to read.

I think it's safe to say that most of the senior creatives aren't thinking about Uub or what the modern material will mean for him (except Toyotaro because he's a fan, hence the new details about the Grand Supreme Kai as an escape clause). As far as I can tell, the decision to keep everything in the ten-year era is what Toriyama's comfortable with, and he's not really focused on how it affects continuity. Which makes sense- if you're doing new material in a franchise that's about a constant upward climb, the last thing you want to do is limit it to what will still be feasible being compared to a scrawny Ethiopian kid.

At worst, you can write off Goku's excitement over Uub as being his general positive attitude to anything that can give him a fight. Dude tangled with the God of Destruction in the very first arc and still managed to be impressed by the many lesser challenges that followed. I mean, Uub by himself was a weakling even in the context of Z, it was the potential that had Goku interested.

[Mad Swami]

I sort of started this to talk about some issues with Super not out of hate just to chat with people. I am for the most part just talking about the anime because the problem is far greater there then the manga. Dragon Ball Super.... is messy. It's not some disgraceful follow up because there is a lot there to enjoy. I think Super had an interesting idea of an overarching story but it isn't executed right. I think it's cool seeing more of the Vegeta from the Buu saga in terms of character design. I really loved the Broly movie, thought the Zamasu arc was fun with Zamasu conceptually being my favorite villain since Omega Shenron (again conceptually). Hit's cool, T.O.P has it's moments, and Battle of Gods is my personal all time favorite film. However that's the problem. Battle of Gods. In the movie we meet Beerus, the god of destruction of the universe as he heads out in search of the Super Saiyan God. Over the course of the film Goku becomes said god and fights Beerus eventually pushing the god to use a whopping 70%. The film ends beautifully as Goku and Beerus float in space with Goku completely tapped as Beerus shows his respect talking about even strong fighters than the two of them. Then there was a squeal which was meh. Then Super the anime came and retold BOG ret-conning the Beerus fight making it as if he used almost none of his power. Goku's base was revealed to be as strong as SSJ God and the series progressed and Goku kept getting stronger but never seeming to surpass Beerus except with one power Ultra Instinct. This bothers me because this means Beerus had to have used like 0.005% of his power. Beerus for no real reason pretends to have a decent fight with SSJ God Goku. It could be argued that he wanted to take on Goku to sort of groom him into a more worthy adversary but it is shown he grows to like the Saiyans over the course of the fight not before it. This change just makes Beerus seem so silly to me, why would he pretend to have a good fight when he apparently is like hundreds of time stronger. Not too mention why would Goku care about Uub? Uub is a really cool idea of a character and I really love the End of Z. Battle of Gods could work with the End of Z, Goku fights Beerus reaching a temporary state of power that he spends everyday training with no hopes of reaching. This aspect could explain Goku's sort of melancholy demeanor(personally I always thought Goku seemed saddene. Piccolo even remarks he hadn't seen Goku as happy as he was with Uub in a long time). However now why would Uub re spark Goku's fighting spirit!? There is no way Uub can compete with anyone in Super and no way at the tournament he's even as strong or stronger than Kid Buu was. So how could Goku care about Uub. Honestly Super progressing made Beerus a character I really loved seem kind of silly, and made Uub pointless. Battle of Gods should have been a one off in my opinion. Do you guys have any issues with Super?

Could you maybe...hit the return key once or twice? This is hard to read.

I think it's safe to say that most of the senior creatives aren't thinking about Uub or what the modern material will mean for him (except Toyotaro because he's a fan, hence the new details about the Grand Supreme Kai as an escape clause). As far as I can tell, the decision to keep everything in the ten-year era is what Toriyama's comfortable with, and he's not really focused on how it affects continuity. Which makes sense- if you're doing new material in a franchise that's about a constant upward climb, the last thing you want to do is limit it to what will still be feasible being compared to a scrawny Ethiopian kid.

At worst, you can write off Goku's excitement over Uub as being his general positive attitude to anything that can give him a fight. Dude tangled with the God of Destruction in the very first arc and still managed to be impressed by the many lesser challenges that followed. I mean, Uub by himself was a weakling even in the context of Z, it was the potential that had Goku interested.

fair enough sorry. Ok I see what where your coming from

[BobBob]

I have a few issues with the series, the main one being that visually it feels stiff compared to DB, Z, and GT. I’m not an animation expert at all (although reading about the differences and starting to be able to recognize different animators styles has been fun), but the characters look like they are made of plastic.

I mean, I get that most if not all modern anime has that really sleek kind of look to it, but Super seems egregiously bad in regards to it’s colors and shading. Compare it to something like the 2011 Hunter x Hunter, which has the same kind of brightly colored aesthetic but arguably executed much better, and it’s like, what the hell happened?

Other issues I have are more about tonal inconsistencies but in all honesty, because it feels like they were changing to more of a Saturday Morning cartoon aesthetic, and I can take that for what it is.

[ABED]

The revelation about Buu was the story clearly bending over backwards to accommodate Super into the continuity. I'd be more forgiving if anything interesting came of it.

[Mister_Popo]

Super does not equal DBZ. If you want to enjoy Super, it does not help if you take it too serious.
The show is basically a parody of DBZ in a large number of aspects. I don't say there is no bad writing involved at occasions. But it's not meant all that seriously. Take it with a gram of salt. Once you accept that, Beerus being thousands of times stronger than he originally appeared can even be kinda funny. I even don't think the makers truely cared about concistency that much to begin with, it becomes more tolerable once you take into account the show has a strong parodical side, and loves to take a spin on things. It has a serious side as well, but it's generally meant a lot more lighthearted than DBZ and even DB. You even notice that on how some characters like Vegeta and Freeza (animals in DBZ) were portrayed at times with lots of comic relief.

I don't say you have to love Super, but it can help if you watch with another mindset / shade another light on it than 'i expect a bullseye accurate and all that serious successor of DBZ' if you want to appreciate the series more. With an open mind for a different view. I too for instance didn't like it from the start, it wasn't exactly love at first sight, but i've somehow grown to appreciate it more once i learned to look at it differently.

[goku the krump dancer]

The revelation about Buu was the story clearly bending over backwards to accommodate Super into the continuity. I'd be more forgiving if anything interesting came of it.

You referring to the whole Oob having God Ki thing?

[KBABZ]

However now why would Uub re spark Goku's fighting spirit!?

Goku kept an eye out for Uub because of his sheer potential as a fighter. Buu was WAY more powerful than him, more powerful than Vegeta or Cell or anything he had ever met before, so his request to Yenma taking Uub under his wing is to start training his next great rival and forge his own mountain to climb.

[ABED]

The revelation about Buu was the story clearly bending over backwards to accommodate Super into the continuity. I'd be more forgiving if anything interesting came of it.

You referring to the whole Oob having God Ki thing?

That's a bingo.

[Mad Swami]

Super does not equal DBZ. If you want to enjoy Super, it does not help if you take it too serious.
The show is basically a parody of DBZ in a large number of aspects. I don't say there is no bad writing involved at occasions. But it's not meant all that seriously. Take it with a gram of salt. Once you accept that, Beerus being thousands of times stronger than he originally appeared can even be kinda funny. I even don't think the makers truely cared about concistency that much to begin with, it becomes more tolerable once you take into account the show has a strong parodical side, and loves to take a spin on things. It has a serious side as well, but it's generally meant a lot more lighthearted than DBZ and even DB. You even notice that on how some characters like Vegeta and Freeza (animals in DBZ) were portrayed at times with lots of comic relief.

I don't say you have to love Super, but it can help if you watch with another mindset / shade another light on it than 'i expect a bullseye accurate and all that serious successor of DBZ' if you want to appreciate the series more. With an open mind for a different view. I too for instance didn't like it from the start, it wasn't exactly love at first sight, but i've somehow grown to appreciate it more once i learned to look at it differently.

sorry if it came off as I don't enjoy super. I do just some things bother me is all

[Mad Swami]

However now why would Uub re spark Goku's fighting spirit!?

Goku kept an eye out for Uub because of his sheer potential as a fighter. Buu was WAY more powerful than him, more powerful than Vegeta or Cell or anything he had ever met before, so his request to Yenma taking Uub under his wing is to start training his next great rival and forge his own mountain to climb.

But that was back when he was. Now Uub can not compare to Beerus

[Mister_Popo]

Super does not equal DBZ. If you want to enjoy Super, it does not help if you take it too serious.
The show is basically a parody of DBZ in a large number of aspects. I don't say there is no bad writing involved at occasions. But it's not meant all that seriously. Take it with a gram of salt. Once you accept that, Beerus being thousands of times stronger than he originally appeared can even be kinda funny. I even don't think the makers truely cared about concistency that much to begin with, it becomes more tolerable once you take into account the show has a strong parodical side, and loves to take a spin on things. It has a serious side as well, but it's generally meant a lot more lighthearted than DBZ and even DB. You even notice that on how some characters like Vegeta and Freeza (animals in DBZ) were portrayed at times with lots of comic relief.

I don't say you have to love Super, but it can help if you watch with another mindset / shade another light on it than 'i expect a bullseye accurate and all that serious successor of DBZ' if you want to appreciate the series more. With an open mind for a different view. I too for instance didn't like it from the start, it wasn't exactly love at first sight, but i've somehow grown to appreciate it more once i learned to look at it differently.

sorry if it came off as I don't enjoy super. I do just some things bother me is all

No problem, sorry is not needed here. It's all a matter of experience and opinion.
And i understand your reaction, it's normal.

[KBABZ]

However now why would Uub re spark Goku's fighting spirit!?

Goku kept an eye out for Uub because of his sheer potential as a fighter. Buu was WAY more powerful than him, more powerful than Vegeta or Cell or anything he had ever met before, so his request to Yenma taking Uub under his wing is to start training his next great rival and forge his own mountain to climb.

But that was back when he was. Now Uub can not compare to Beerus

Not really. Since Uub's exact power wasn't stated (thank god), his power automatically scales up according to whoever the strongest person Goku has faced is in Super. Is that ridiculous? Yes, but so was the original conceit that a small boy had Buu's extreme well of power in the first place. All we have is Goku's word and his reactions/behaviour around Uub, and unless Super retells that scene or skips over it to make it not applicable to the Super anime, that's the way it is.

[ABED]

He is a reincarnation of the strongest being the series had to that point. I find that more logical than scaling Uub's power to make the ending make any sort of sense, thematic or otherwise, more than a little asinine.

[goku the krump dancer]

The revelation about Buu was the story clearly bending over backwards to accommodate Super into the continuity. I'd be more forgiving if anything interesting came of it.

You referring to the whole Oob having God Ki thing?

That's a bingo.

While I dont mind it too much myself. I will say it seems a bit unnecessary simply because like you said Oob has easy access to all of Boo's power as a base starter. If we use Piccolo as an example, by the time we see him as an adult for the first time in the 23rd tournament he already had surpassed his father/former self and has only climbed MUCH higher since then.. With Proper training with someone like Goku, Oob could be making Boo look like a joke in almost no time at all.

Applying "Super Logic" if he trains with Goku for at least a year, he'd probably be strong enough to waste Jiren, and thats without the God Ki revelation, If Boo in his natural state was strong enough to tussle with SS3, his pool of potential should be much more VAST than anyone else's except Goku's and Vegeta's I guess, if Freeza's example is anything to go by. Now that we know he "Has It" (God Ki) to say the sky's the limit is an understatement and though we know why it was done that way from a narrative point of view, it shouldn't have really mattered at the end of the day.

All this really means to me though is that for the foreseeable future they dont intend on going past the End of Z.

[Mad Swami]

Goku kept an eye out for Uub because of his sheer potential as a fighter. Buu was WAY more powerful than him, more powerful than Vegeta or Cell or anything he had ever met before, so his request to Yenma taking Uub under his wing is to start training his next great rival and forge his own mountain to climb.

But that was back when he was. Now Uub can not compare to Beerus

Not really. Since Uub's exact power wasn't stated (thank god), his power automatically scales up according to whoever the strongest person Goku has faced is in Super. Is that ridiculous? Yes, but so was the original conceit that a small boy had Buu's extreme well of power in the first place. All we have is Goku's word and his reactions/behaviour around Uub, and unless Super retells that scene or skips over it to make it not applicable to the Super anime, that's the way it is.

but Uub wasn't equal to Kid Buu. He had Buu's potential, Goku fights him in base(back when base was not god like) that should say he is no where near Kid Buu level of power