What if Jiren > Belmod has been quietly retconned already???!

[Thani]

Clarification on How (and why) they keep GoD level so high when it doesn't make any sense. It could make sense if they showed Beerus training but the guy slack off and somehow still effortelessly beat an uber-upgraded Vegeta.

This was already explained by Vegeta and Beerus. Ultra Ego allows them to increase strength indefinitely, it depends on how much damage they can take or how mastered the ability is. It’s basically a technique that rivals Ultra Instinct, which is the angels’ specialty.

That would explain it but isn't UE exclusive to Vegeta ?

It is, as far as transformations goes. Belmod wouldn't get purple hair and even less eyebrows if he pulled a similar technique. As far as we know, UE has something to do with the GoD's way of thinking and with Destruction/Hakai itself, so the GoDs probably have something similar.

[Hugo Boss]

Clarification on How (and why) they keep GoD level so high when it doesn't make any sense. It could make sense if they showed Beerus training but the guy slack off and somehow still effortelessly beat an uber-upgraded Vegeta.

This was already explained by Vegeta and Beerus. Ultra Ego allows them to increase strength indefinitely, it depends on how much damage they can take or how mastered the ability is. It’s basically a technique that rivals Ultra Instinct, which is the angels’ specialty.

That would explain it but isn't UE exclusive to Vegeta ?

As a transformation yes, but the technique was taught by Beerus.

[Magnificent Ponta]

As a little additional speculation along these lines, if Wagamama no Goku'i is meant to truly be a God of Destruction technique analogous to how Migatte no Goku'i is for the Angels, then it's quite possible that Gods of Destruction are always in the 'Wagamama' state in the same way that the Angels are always in the 'Migatte' state.

[Thani]

As a little additional speculation along these lines, if Wagamama no Goku'i is meant to truly be a God of Destruction technique analogous to how Migatte no Goku'i is for the Angels, then it's quite possible that Gods of Destruction are always in the 'Wagamama' state in the same way that the Angels are always in the 'Migatte' state.

This. Beerus himself said as much. "My mind is always on destruction and little else".

[BWri]

As a little additional speculation along these lines, if Wagamama no Goku'i is meant to truly be a God of Destruction technique analogous to how Migatte no Goku'i is for the Angels, then it's quite possible that Gods of Destruction are always in the 'Wagamama' state in the same way that the Angels are always in the 'Migatte' state.

This. Beerus himself said as much. "My mind is always on destruction and little else".

Are Beerus and Champa the best or the worst practitioners then? Does the purple state indicate mastery or undisciplined use of the technique? Or is the purple a mutation of only certain races? So many questions ...

[Thani]

As a little additional speculation along these lines, if Wagamama no Goku'i is meant to truly be a God of Destruction technique analogous to how Migatte no Goku'i is for the Angels, then it's quite possible that Gods of Destruction are always in the 'Wagamama' state in the same way that the Angels are always in the 'Migatte' state.

This. Beerus himself said as much. "My mind is always on destruction and little else".

Are Beerus and Champa the best or the worst practitioners then? Does the purple state indicate mastery or undisciplined use of the technique? Or is the purple a mutation of only certain races? So many questions ...

I think the purple hair Vegeta developed is indeed a saiyan thing, because saiyans mutate in order to acclimate their bodies to the new source of power.

Like, super saiyan has golden ki, so the saiyan's body reflects that. SSG has red ki, SSGSS has blue ki, so on and so forth.

As for Beerus and Champa, honestly, I never saw them as being any more of a master of this energy than the other Destroyers. Would be silly that a God of Destruction would get promoted to the position without being a master at the one thing they should definitely master.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Why would it be? Belmond was on his way to retiring already. I doubt we'll ever even see him again. He was just a god who was already past his peak.

[KentMan]

Why would it be? Belmond was on his way to retiring already. I doubt we'll ever even see him again. He was just a god who was already past his peak.

I don’t think so and I don’t think Jiren was rectonned to be weaker than Belmod or Beerus.

[Hugo Boss]

Why would it be? Belmond was on his way to retiring already. I doubt we'll ever even see him again. He was just a god who was already past his peak.

I don’t think so and I don’t think Jiren was rectonned to be weaker than Belmod or Beerus.

The original information is that Jiren was only stronger than Vermoud in terms of battle power. Jiren was never stronger than Beerus in the manga continuity.

[KentMan]

The original information is that Jiren was only stronger than Vermoud in terms of battle power. Jiren was never stronger than Beerus in the manga continuity.

There’s a bonus page that shows Belmod telling the Kai what if Jiren hadn’t join. There was no way that Belmod could physically force Jiren to join even with UE. Do you have proof that Jiren isn’t stronger than Beerus?

[Koitsukai]

The original information is that Jiren was only stronger than Vermoud in terms of battle power. Jiren was never stronger than Beerus in the manga continuity.

There’s a bonus page that shows Belmod telling the Kai what if Jiren hadn’t join. There was no way that Belmod could physically force Jiren to join even with UE. Do you have proof that Jiren isn’t stronger than Beerus?

Yes, Goku was beating Jiren, then when UI started to take its toll, they were pretty much even until he lost the "form". After that, Goku mastered the form that was beating the shit out of Jiren, to beat the even stronger Moro73... after all of that, Beerus is still said to be above Granola, who is above an even stronger UI Goku, because he was the strongest in the universe. So the proof would be the last 15 chapters of the manga.

[KentMan]

Yes, Goku was beating Jiren, then when UI started to take its toll, they were pretty much even until he lost the "form". After that, Goku mastered the form that was beating the shit out of Jiren, to beat the even stronger Moro73... after all of that, Beerus is still said to be above Granola, who is above an even stronger UI Goku, because he was the strongest in the universe. So the proof would be the last 15 chapters of the manga.

I’m assuming you’re talking about the anime version. Because in the manga version Goku even with the silver haired form still lost to Jiren. As in Jiren straight up beats UI Goku back to base and would ringed him out had Vegeta not catch him. As for Moro 73 it’s hard to say how he ranks with Beerus. I’m confused where is it said that Beerus is above Granolah we were talking about Jiren. I read the last 15 chapters of the manga and I could not find anything that has Beerus above Jiren.

[Koitsukai]

Yes, Goku was beating Jiren, then when UI started to take its toll, they were pretty much even until he lost the "form". After that, Goku mastered the form that was beating the shit out of Jiren, to beat the even stronger Moro73... after all of that, Beerus is still said to be above Granola, who is above an even stronger UI Goku, because he was the strongest in the universe. So the proof would be the last 15 chapters of the manga.

I’m assuming you’re talking about the anime version. Because in the manga version Goku even with the silver haired form still lost to Jiren. As in Jiren straight up beats UI Goku back to base and would ringed him out had Vegeta not catch him. As for Moro 73 it’s hard to say how he ranks with Beerus. I’m confused where is it said that Beerus is above Granolah we were talking about Jiren. I read the last 15 chapters of the manga and I could not find anything that has Beerus above Jiren.

In the manga, Goku dropped out of the form and lost. That's UI for amateurs, it goes from 10 to 0 just like that. Jiren was improving and Goku was deteriorating.

It doesn't really matter how that played out inside that cloud of dust, though, Moro73 was straight up said to be the toughest ever, which includes Jiren. That was in chapter 65... it's chapter 81, the saiyans got much stronger and Beerus is still above people like Gas and Granola, who trashed Goku and Vegeta.

[KentMan]

In the manga, Goku dropped out of the form and lost. That's UI for amateurs, it goes from 10 to 0 just like that. Jiren was improving and Goku was deteriorating.

It doesn't really matter how that played out inside that cloud of dust, though, Moro73 was straight up said to be the toughest ever, which includes Jiren. That was in chapter 65... it's chapter 81, the saiyans got much stronger and Beerus is still above people like Gas and Granola, who trashed Goku and Vegeta.

Toughest could mean a lot of things you would think that Whis is the toughest considering how easily he deals with Goku and Vegeta sparring. UI Goku could not bring Jiren down in the manga he was too much to handle. As for Gas and Granolah well they’re are the strongest now if you’re saying they’re weaker than Beerus than they must be weaker than Broly.

[Koitsukai]

In the manga, Goku dropped out of the form and lost. That's UI for amateurs, it goes from 10 to 0 just like that. Jiren was improving and Goku was deteriorating.

It doesn't really matter how that played out inside that cloud of dust, though, Moro73 was straight up said to be the toughest ever, which includes Jiren. That was in chapter 65... it's chapter 81, the saiyans got much stronger and Beerus is still above people like Gas and Granola, who trashed Goku and Vegeta.

Toughest could mean a lot of things you would think that Whis is the toughest considering how easily he deals with Goku and Vegeta sparring. UI Goku could not bring Jiren down in the manga he was too much to handle. As for Gas and Granolah well they’re are the strongest now if you’re saying they’re weaker than Beerus than they must be weaker than Broly.

Toughest has been used in DB as a synonymous for strongest ever since DB, there's a Herm's thread that talks about it. Besides, the context leaves no room for doubt, Goku was talking about strenght and training with Moro, he then calls him the toughest.

It's not me saying they are weaker than Beerus, the story is, Toronbo did.
Broly is also weaker than Moro73 and way weaker than Gas and Granola, Whis clearly said there was nobody stronger than Goku and Vegeta in U7 prior to Granola making his wish.
Goku comparing Broly to Beerus has long been put to rest and proven to be a mistake from Goku's part. Beerus is unfathomable at the moment, not even with the most broken set of DB you can surpass him.

The DBs said so, Granola >>>>>> every U7 ningen including Broly. And also Beerus >>> Granola, so Beerus >>>> Broly.

[Hugo Boss]

The original information is that Jiren was only stronger than Vermoud in terms of battle power. Jiren was never stronger than Beerus in the manga continuity.

There’s a bonus page that shows Belmod telling the Kai what if Jiren hadn’t join. There was no way that Belmod could physically force Jiren to join even with UE. Do you have proof that Jiren isn’t stronger than Beerus?

Everything that Koitsukai said. I would just add that UE is probably a way to justify why Beerus isn’t being surpassed so far, after so much foreshadowing. And as Whis revealed to Goku, the angels have different levels of mastery over UI. So, I would say the same could be assumed for the Gods of Destruction. Maybe Vermoud is not so much of a master over UE like Beerus is. Though, considering Toppo didn’t say Jiren was stronger than Vermoud without making it specifically about battle power, you can assume Vermoud has means to make a fight very difficult for Jiren.

[KentMan]

Toughest has been used in DB as a synonymous for strongest ever since DB, there's a Herm's thread that talks about it. Besides, the context leaves no room for doubt, Goku was talking about strenght and training with Moro, he then calls him the toughest.

It's not me saying they are weaker than Beerus, the story is, Toronbo did.
Broly is also weaker than Moro73 and way weaker than Gas and Granola, Whis clearly said there was nobody stronger than Goku and Vegeta in U7 prior to Granola making his wish.
Goku comparing Broly to Beerus has long been put to rest and proven to be a mistake from Goku's part. Beerus is unfathomable at the moment, not even with the most broken set of DB you can surpass him.

The DBs said so, Granola >>>>>> every U7 ningen including Broly. And also Beerus >>> Granola, so Beerus >>>> Broly.

So Moro stronger than Whis? Just playing with you it’s funny you mention Herms since on his twitter he actually talks about Moro toughness. When I saw those tweets it looked like he was questioning a lot of things on what Goku is saying.

Forgive me but I haven’t found anything that puts Beerus above Broly. You can thank a certain editor with the weird hair for that. And I can’t find anything that puts him above Jiren. Moro 73 is a mystery Gas and Granolah if they’re stronger than Broly they’re stronger than Beerus. Goku strength compared to Beerus is ambiguous what with the recent info that Herms gave some months ago.

[KentMan]

Everything that Koitsukai said. I would just add that UE is probably a way to justify why Beerus isn’t being surpassed so far, after so much foreshadowing. And as Whis revealed to Goku, the angels have different levels of mastery over UI. So, I would say the same could be assumed for the Gods of Destruction. Maybe Vermoud is not so much of a master over UE like Beerus is. Though, considering Toppo didn’t say Jiren was stronger than Vermoud without making it specifically about battle power, you can assume Vermoud has means to make a fight very difficult for Jiren.

What does him having UE have anything to do with Beerus and Jiren? We know all destroyers have it and if one of them isn’t a master of them they couldn’t be a destroyer. Belmod and Beerus have the same level of control over UE it’s just which one is better. Nothing implies that Beerus is above Quitella and Belmod so I don’t know where you got that from. And the bonus page and Belmods confidence in Jiren means he can’t physically do anything to Jiren even with Hakai.

[Koitsukai]

Toughest has been used in DB as a synonymous for strongest ever since DB, there's a Herm's thread that talks about it. Besides, the context leaves no room for doubt, Goku was talking about strenght and training with Moro, he then calls him the toughest.

It's not me saying they are weaker than Beerus, the story is, Toronbo did.
Broly is also weaker than Moro73 and way weaker than Gas and Granola, Whis clearly said there was nobody stronger than Goku and Vegeta in U7 prior to Granola making his wish.
Goku comparing Broly to Beerus has long been put to rest and proven to be a mistake from Goku's part. Beerus is unfathomable at the moment, not even with the most broken set of DB you can surpass him.

The DBs said so, Granola >>>>>> every U7 ningen including Broly. And also Beerus >>> Granola, so Beerus >>>> Broly.

So Moro stronger than Whis? Just playing with you it’s funny you mention Herms since on his twitter he actually talks about Moro toughness. When I saw those tweets it looked like he was questioning a lot of things on what Goku is saying.

Forgive me but I haven’t found anything that puts Beerus above Broly. You can thank a certain editor with the weird hair for that. And I can’t find anything that puts him above Jiren. Moro 73 is a mystery Gas and Granolah if they’re stronger than Broly they’re stronger than Beerus. Goku strength compared to Beerus is ambiguous what with the recent info that Herms gave some months ago.

Ok, let's forget pretty much everything that happened up until the new arc. We still have the dragon say that they'll make Granola the strongest in the universe besides the gods, that's our boy Beerus and of course his attendant, Whis.
That puts Granny above everybody, Broly included, anybody but Beerus, and by Whis' words there was nobody in U7 stronger than Goku and Vegeta, that means Broly, too. And now a new character is above Granny, and probably below Beerus because the dragon cannot top Beerus.

I also bought the movie's statement about Broly, don't get me wrong, it made perfect sense, but there has been way too many developments that downplay Broly's power compared to the current levels and hype Beerus', so I had to let go that ambiguous opinion Goku, not even himself was 100% sure about, had many arcs ago, or nothing would make sense going forward, I would have to stop believing what the story was blatantly telling me through gods, angels and dragons and side with a ningen that really had no idea what he was talking about.

About Uchida, it's simple in my eyes, he is a Broly fan and knows he has lot of potential and probably can rival Beerus after he's undergone the training regime what Goku has. But the story is clear about the strongest guy in U7 which Broly is a part of.

[KentMan]

Ok, let's forget pretty much everything that happened up until the new arc. We still have the dragon say that they'll make Granola the strongest in the universe besides the gods, that's our boy Beerus and of course his attendant, Whis.
That puts Granny above everybody, Broly included, anybody but Beerus, and by Whis' words there was nobody in U7 stronger than Goku and Vegeta, that means Broly, too. And now a new character is above Granny, and probably below Beerus because the dragon cannot top Beerus.

I also bought the movie's statement about Broly, don't get me wrong, it made perfect sense, but there has been way too many developments that downplay Broly's power compared to the current levels and hype Beerus', so I had to let go that ambiguous opinion Goku, not even himself was 100% sure about, had many arcs ago, or nothing would make sense going forward, I would have to stop believing what the story was blatantly telling me through gods, angels and dragons and side with a ningen that really had no idea what he was talking about.

About Uchida, it's simple in my eyes, he is a Broly fan and knows he has lot of potential and probably can rival Beerus after he's undergone the training regime what Goku has. But the story is clear about the strongest guy in U7 which Broly is a part of.

The divine beings you mention could also refer to Kaioshins. It unknown what the dragon means. As for Goku he did see Beerus fight at full power in the zen exhibition match. And him saying that Broly is probably stronger than Beerus holds a lot of weight. And matches what he saw Beerus do in the manga compared to the anime. If Uchida was wrong Toyotaro or Toriyama would have corrected him they didn’t as far as anyone knows.