Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[BWri]

Honestly, I think I would've preferred if Piccolo tried to get Gohan to realize his potential, only for Gohan to instead cheer him on and let him be the one to win against Cell Max with his Orange form.

As much as I love Gohan using the drill beam, I would have much preferred this. That way we could still call this the Piccolo movie as it was initially intended. But I can't say I'm disappointed how things turned out.

[Noah]

Does anyone feel like this movie ruined a potential arc where Cell could be revived? Even though Cell Max isn't the same Cell, I mean more in terms of concept... it could have been better developed for the future, and in this movie they only used it because the Gammas lacked charisma to carry the film as the only villains.

[Rafa Fast]

Of course not, cause Cell Max isn't Cell revived, so the original Cell could still be brought back, money is everything and if they believe that the return of the only true green bug can give them more gold they'll do it.
Remember, Freeza technically didn't return only twice, and him alongside Cell returned in fillers twice, even if it was just for a short time.
With stuff like Akio Iyoku still around, the nostalgia & throwback radar won't be shut down anytime soon, trust me.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Yeah Freeza was revived twice in Super, so no reason to suspect they won't consider bringing Cell back, and bringing back the actual Cell this time. Sure it happened with Kefla, who was girl Broly and then the original Broly was rebooted. I know Cell can't be rebooted because he's already part of Toriyama's original manga but I could see something similar happening in terms of finding a new way to milk an old idea even if something different has already been tried.

[Ashur]

Does anyone feel like this movie ruined a potential arc where Cell could be revived? Even though Cell Max isn't the same Cell, I mean more in terms of concept... it could have been better developed for the future, and in this movie they only used it because the Gammas lacked charisma to carry the film as the only villains.

I don't think it was made because of the lack of charisma, but because the Gammas were never meant to be the final villains, as they are supposed to turn good given they believed themselves to be super heroes, i am pretty sure something like Cell Max was in the works the moment it was decided that it would have been a movie focused on Gohan returning to being the strongest character.

[MasenkoHA]

Finally got around to watching Superx2 Hero. It was a pretty mid movie honestly. Probably my least favorite of the revival era films.

Random commentary (I watched the dub so there will be some dub specific comments)

- The Red Ribbon saga flashback prologue montage looked fantastic why couldn't the whole movie look like that? I would be way more behind a remake of the 86 cartoon if it looked that good.

-I am not a fan of the art direction/art style of the actual movie though. Looked like a video game cutaway scene the entire time, especially the fights

-This is the first on screen confirmation we got that 16 was based on Gero's son and not just an interview from Toriyama. Afaik

- Hey the English dub finally acknowledged Piccolo was once a demon and for the first time referred to him as Great Demon King Piccolo. Seriously the dubbers seemed dead set on avoiding that even in Kai to the point of just reusing old Z dub dialog. Now if only the dubbers will start using the term ki, the video games have been using them since like 2002 so there's no excuse

-It's also nice they pointed out Piccolo WAS King Piccolo. For whatever reason a lot of fans seem to think he was literally Daimao's son like Piano and Tambourine. Can't even blame Funimation on that one since even the og Dragon Ball dub outright called him his reincarnation.

- I sorta get why Piccolo stated he recognized the RR insignia from his Kami side (Daimao was in an electric rice cooker when the Red Ribbon Army was at large) but Piccolo would have seen those on the Androids before the re-assimilation...


-The Super Hero motif and what not felt like Toriyama and company taking notice on the popularity of the MCU. Funny how a year later, and I think most people would agree the MCU, and perhaps super hero blockbusters in general, is on it's last legs.

-Like father like Son Gohan, history repeats itself and Piccolo is once again doing the brunt of the child raising while the father follows his passion. Will he be looking after Pan's kid too?

- It's weird how this movie acknowledges the events of the Super tv series like Jiren and the God of Destructions but Gohan's character has reset back to how we last saw him in Resurrection F. All that I need to train again to protect my family went right out the window, didn't it?

- This is like the 4th time the revival era has pulled the "Majin Boo has fallen asleep and is no good to us" bit. Get a new excuse?

-Mr.Popo is conspicuously absent from the heavenly realm scene, and I can't help but feel there was a very intentional reason for why didn't see the arabian minstrel show.

- This movie's entire existence seemed catered to Dragon Ball fans who felt the Cell saga was the story's peak and Gohan should have stayed the lead.

- The dub is still using power level as an umbrella term for ki and battle powers?!? I thought they abandoned that in Kai and Super when they stuck to battle power=l power level and ki= energy?

-The movie makes a meta commentary about Goten and Trunks seemingly not aging until now by having Gohan point out Saiyans still little for a while and then grow up out of nowhere. But uh 1. Gohan aged normally 2. Marron isn't a Saiyan and looked the same in Super and 3. Goten and Trunks still acted 7 and 8 throughout Super.

- Even though Kai used Kienzan, Taiyo Ken, and Makankosoppa(sp?) the dub is back to Destructo Disk, Solar Flare, and Special Beam cannon. Is Linda Young going to voice Frieza again next?

-I guess since Japanese movies don't have to follow Japanese television guidelines they can be as flashing lights happy as they want?

- A lot of emphasis on Pan mastering flight, because that was the first thing we saw her do in the manga's epilogue? Even though Super had her flying as a baby? Sure?

[Rafa Fast]

Almost 2 years since this came out, and my biggest doubts about this film still remain these 3:

• Why doesn't this movie have a credits song? Not even a single vocal song? This is literally the only, I repeat, the only film in the franchise to not have a single vocal song used, even the movies that didn't have an original theme song used vocal songs, DB Movies 1, 2 and Z Movie 1 used the TV Series ending song, DB Movie 3 used the insert song "Dragon Ball Densetsu" as ending song, and Path to Power used Dan Dan Kokoro as ending song, what happened here???.

• Where is CHA-LA HEAD-CHA-LA? Battle of Gods established that every movie had to feature a new version of the song (including Super TV series, and Kai Boo reuses the Flow version in the International release), track "Avant Title" supposedly contains a easter egg of the song but that's just a conjecture, nothing confirmed, sooo...??

• What happened to Sumitomo???

I really liked the movie but damn, these three details plus the 3D and a few other decisions, idk all of these still give me a weird feeling about this movie's aura, it makes it look like a experimental project that does not belong to the same department as the previous films (especially the 3 that came out in the last decade), idk for me it's almost as if it had been made by a different company or prodution teams.

-The Super Hero motif and what not felt like Toriyama and company taking notice on the popularity of the MCU.

It's undoubtedly inspired, but I think the presence of the theme throughout the film is also more likely because of Sato being a Newbie to the series or something, the score in general was pretty lackluster when compared to the works of past composers as Sumitomo or Kikuchi, the most memorable thing about it is the Super Hero theme, but it contributes to this fact that the theme becomes a bit too repetitive, specially because 3/4 almost identical cues featuring the motif are used, it's a bit sad because I think some of the movie's best tracks are the ones not featuring this motif or at least a different take on it ("Gohan vs Gamma" felt a better and more organic action packed use of it imo)

[MasenkoHA]

.

-The Super Hero motif and what not felt like Toriyama and company taking notice on the popularity of the MCU.

It's undoubtedly inspired, but I think the presence of the theme throughout the film is also more likely because of Sato being a Newbie to the series or something, the score in general was pretty lackluster when compared to the works of past composers as Sumitomo or Kikuchi, the most memorable thing about it is the Super Hero theme, but it contributes to this fact that the theme becomes a bit too repetitive, specially because 3/4 almost identical cues featuring the motif are used, it's a bit sad because I think some of the movie's best tracks are the ones not featuring this motif or at least a different take on it ("Gohan vs Gamma" felt a better and more organic action packed use of it imo)

I was talking about the movie itself, not so much as the music.

Honestly the music was serviceable but incredibly bland. Other than a few tracks near the end I couldn't really remember it. So far my least favorite of the Japanese soundtracks

[Lukmendes]

- It's weird how this movie acknowledges the events of the Super tv series like Jiren and the God of Destructions but Gohan's character has reset back to how we last saw him in Resurrection F. All that I need to train again to protect my family went right out the window, didn't it?

Toriyama follows his own continuity when writing the movies without really caring about what the anime and manga are doing. Jiren in particular is described by Vegeta as not being that much stronger than himself or Goku, and is completely relaxed when striking, which's doesn't line up at all with either anime or manga versions which put clear emphasis on him being super strong.

- This is like the 4th time the revival era has pulled the "Majin Boo has fallen asleep and is no good to us" bit. Get a new excuse?

I just wonder why they don't just throw Buu inside RoSaT every time this happens... They probably would have enough time to do that back in ToP, and probably would have enough time here lol.

Just sucks Toriyama never feels like making use of Buu, the only time he did anything under Toriyama was all the way back in BoG, where his personality was changed to be an asshole who doesn't share even one pudding...

[MasenkoHA]

It's just weird that Mr.Buu keeps getting the "he's too powerful we have to write him out of the story so he doesn't resolve the conflict in 5 seconds" treatment. Even though I don't think he's that OP anymore? He's just being written like Shueisha and Toei think he is for some reason

[Lukmendes]

As far as power levels go he's long been outclassed, I think the problem is candy beam being capable of neutralizing anyone stronger than him, and in ToP in particular, his healing would be ridiculously overpowered.

It doesn't help that only maybe Freeza wouldn't be hit by candy beam if he felt it was dangerous, but Broly and specially Cell Max are simple brutes, so at some point candy beam could hit them, and while maybe characters would be opposed to candy beam being used against Broly, they definitely wouldn't against Cell Max.

Essentially it's one of those really broken powers that is hard to write around, and Super having two berserk villains who maybe wouldn't really know how to deal with it doesn't help... On top of that, even knocking him out is difficult because his stamina is just ridiculous.

[JulieYBM]

I think Buu is left out because his personality is felt to be too gag-esque? Or Shueisha simply doesn't think that he is relatable, and they can market more popular and humanoid characters.

[Basaku]

I think Buu is left out because his personality is felt to be too gag-esque? Or Shueisha simply doesn't think that he is relatable, and they can market more popular and humanoid characters.

Possibly, but then we had the perfect setup for Buu with TOP that had both serious and comedic fighters (Rebrianne <3) and they still dropped him lol. Before ppl say it was to make room for Freeza - they should've had BOTH Freeza and Boo in the team and drop Tien instead as much as I like him...

At least Toyo did something with Buu (and Uub) finally in the Moro arc

[JulieYBM]

I think Buu is left out because his personality is felt to be too gag-esque? Or Shueisha simply doesn't think that he is relatable, and they can market more popular and humanoid characters.

Possibly, but then we had the perfect setup for Buu with TOP that had both serious and comedic fighters (Rebrianne <3) and they still dropped him lol. Before ppl say it was to make room for Freeza - they should've had BOTH Freeza and Boo in the team and drop Tien instead as much as I like him...

At least Toyo did something with Buu (and Uub) finally in the Moro arc

I agree with dropping Tenshinhan, but I also think that he was kept because he's more humanoid than Buu.

It's also just likely that Toriyama simply does not like Majin Buu. Shrug.

[Lukmendes]

I think Buu is left out because his personality is felt to be too gag-esque? Or Shueisha simply doesn't think that he is relatable, and they can market more popular and humanoid characters.

I mean, Buu is one of the most popular antagonists in DB in Japan, and I don't think he'd really be unpopular after changing sides.

His personality being "gag-esque" wouldn't get in the way of DB since Toriyama does like his gags, and he specially wouldn't be out of place in Super Hero, which brought along fat Gotenks and also had a bunch of gags at Gohan's expense.

Possibly, but then we had the perfect setup for Buu with TOP that had both serious and comedic fighters (Rebrianne <3) and they still dropped him lol. Before ppl say it was to make room for Freeza - they should've had BOTH Freeza and Boo in the team and drop Tien instead as much as I like him...

At least Toyo did something with Buu (and Uub) finally in the Moro arc

Honestly, as much as the sidelining of Buu is annoying, I do think the "he randomly fell asleep" gag works for ToP, since suddenly it means Buu isn't available and the characters get kinda desperate for a 10th member, basically a decent enough unpredictability.

Although that moment definitely aged poorly, Toriyama seemingly doesn't give a fuck about him and it's Toei (With the exhibition matches) and Toyotaro (Moro's arc) that have some mercy and allow him to do stuff.

and drop Tien instead

It's so annoying how Tien is just useless now... Introduced as a talented rival, and in Namek he even thought about learning Kaio's techniques and then coming up with his own stuff, which went nowhere and all he does is spam kikoho...

Seriously though, before ToP, the member who would most likely to be considered useless is Roshi, now the character who's considered a waste of space is Tien...

[MasenkoHA]

Tenshinhan being the first true rival character (let's be honest Yamucha and Krillin were never serious rivals to Goku) and the growing pains that come with that are probably why Toriyama made sure to keep Piccolo relevant post-redemption by making him Gohan's mentor and why he delayed Vegeta's redemption for so long.

After you have Tenshinhan reform and have Goku surpass him there really wasn't anywhere for his character to go. Especially when Piccolo took over the role of aloof ally and Vegeta took over the role of heated rival. And honestly both Piccolo and Vegeta were just more interesting characters anyways.

[Basaku]

Honestly, as much as the sidelining of Buu is annoying, I do think the "he randomly fell asleep" gag works for ToP, since suddenly it means Buu isn't available and the characters get kinda desperate for a 10th member, basically a decent enough unpredictability.

Although that moment definitely aged poorly, Toriyama seemingly doesn't give a fuck about him and it's Toei (With the exhibition matches) and Toyotaro (Moro's arc) that have some mercy and allow him to do stuff.

It's so annoying how Tien is just useless now... Introduced as a talented rival, and in Namek he even thought about learning Kaio's techniques and then coming up with his own stuff, which went nowhere and all he does is spam kikoho...

Seriously though, before ToP, the member who would most likely to be considered useless is Roshi, now the character who's considered a waste of space is Tien...

It does work and for TOP's narrative for sure and it wouldn't be an issue for me had Buu been used well before, but unfortunately that wasn't the case so we end up with TOP being possibly his last big chance :/ Hopefully he gets some work in Black Freeza saga and Super manga post-TOP get eventually adapted into the anime...

Agree with Tien. I WAS thinking about Roshi but TOP actually gave him a lot narratively, far more than Tien so yeah... out of the entire squad, i would drop Tien for Buu and keep Roshi

[MasenkoHA]

Agree with Tien. I WAS thinking about Roshi but TOP actually gave him a lot narratively, far more than Tien so yeah... out of the entire squad, i would drop Tien for Buu and keep Roshi

The Roshi focused TOP episode bringing attention back to Goku and Roshi's bond as student and teacher (something ignored in the Z era) ALONE justified Roshi's entire inclusion in the tournament. I could not care less if it made sense for Roshi to be there or not, that episode reinforced what a great character Muten Roshi is when used right.

Tenshinhan? I keep forgetting he took part in the ToP. Could not tell you a single moment involving his character in the tournament.

[Basaku]

The Roshi focused TOP episode bringing attention back to Goku and Roshi's bond as student and teacher (something ignored in the Z era) ALONE justified Roshi's entire inclusion in the tournament. I could not care less if it made sense for Roshi to be there or not, that episode reinforced what a great character Muten Roshi is when used right.

Tenshinhan? I keep forgetting he took part in the ToP. Could not tell you a single moment involving his character in the tournament.

100%. Although I do think there was a tiny bit missed oppurtunity with Roshi's reflections on his past and age and how Goku/Vegeta should be already sharing some of these sentiments too BUT... that would of course require Toriyama/Toyatoro actually making them start acting like they're aging, even for Saiyan standards Maybe one day in post-EOZ content. The old&experienced-warrior role/narrative in DB is sorely underutilized, actually surprising for a fighting story

BTW you're on YT right?

[Lukmendes]

Tenshinhan being the first true rival character (let's be honest Yamucha and Krillin were never serious rivals to Goku) and the growing pains that come with that are probably why Toriyama made sure to keep Piccolo relevant post-redemption by making him Gohan's mentor and why he delayed Vegeta's redemption for so long.

After you have Tenshinhan reform and have Goku surpass him there really wasn't anywhere for his character to go. Especially when Piccolo took over the role of aloof ally and Vegeta took over the role of heated rival. And honestly both Piccolo and Vegeta were just more interesting characters anyways.

Him becoming redundant over time is one thing, but since ToP brought him along with characters specifically choosing to bring him, it still just sucks he lacked, anything, that made him interesting before, he even got the worst ToP episode to boot.

It does work and for TOP's narrative for sure and it wouldn't be an issue for me had Buu been used well before, but unfortunately that wasn't the case so we end up with TOP being possibly his last big chance :/ Hopefully he gets some work in Black Freeza saga and Super manga post-TOP get eventually adapted into the anime...

Yeah, the joke about him oversleeping during ToP is amusing enough in isolation, but since it's part of a pattern where Buu is ignored so he can be more useless than Gotenks, it just sucks...

Agree with Tien. I WAS thinking about Roshi but TOP actually gave him a lot narratively, far more than Tien so yeah... out of the entire squad, i would drop Tien for Buu and keep Roshi

Just sucks how bad he has it...

Tenshinhan? I keep forgetting he took part in the ToP. Could not tell you a single moment involving his character in the tournament.

I'm pretty sure Tien mostly did nothing until his focus episode, which, again, was the worst episode in ToP, right after Roshi's too...