Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

[Goe]

It's strange when Toriyama himself says Goku is a disaster as a father when he didn't create him as a disaster. Toei did so.

In the original manga, Toriyama didn't Goku interfere with Gohan's studies. Piccolo did.

However, they trained Gohan in Android Saga because his strenght would be necesary to save the Earth, but he said to him in the Spirit room he respected his will to be a scientifist.

However, Toei made Goku to drop Gohan's baby cart in a filler. Moreover, in Cooler's film he said an excursion was more important than Gohan's studies… so I think was Toei who made Goku s bad father.

I must admit Toriyama did Goku to give a senzu to cell, and that makes him a bad father. However, he didn't exploited the trope of “Goku being a bad father” as Toei did. Moreover, I think Toriyama wouldn't remember the senzu anecdote in 2007 since he is always forgetting all. Facts are easier to forget than tropes/stereotipes, so when Toriyama said Goku being a disaster a a father, I guess he is influenced by Toei.

There are a bunch of DB anime influences in Toriyama's manga, as we already talked in Kanzenshuu:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44989&p=1650954#p1650954

And I guess that Toriyama's words about Goku being a disaster, are also a Toei's influence.

[Anonymous Friend]

Ask a woman who has grown up with two abusive parents and you're going to realize that there is a third option: being abusive comes in many forms and comparing just two is dumb because it changes the goal posts and ignores that the issue is with abusive parents being abusive.

Some orphans out there wish they had a parent to abuse them. I've met them. Told them "No, you don't". They replied, "At least they care enough to keep the kid around".

Just saying. Whether good or bad, you're living someone's dream life.

I don't like it when my family gaslights me, I don't know why you think you'd be able to do the same thing to me.

How in the smurfin smurfer am I gaslighting you? Have I implied anything about you life and that you never went through whatever you went through?

[Anonymous Friend]

Ask a woman who has grown up with two abusive parents and you're going to realize that there is a third option: being abusive comes in many forms and comparing just two is dumb because it changes the goal posts and ignores that the issue is with abusive parents being abusive.

Some orphans out there wish they had a parent to abuse them. I've met them. Told them "No, you don't". They replied, "At least they care enough to keep the kid around".

Just saying. Whether good or bad, you're living someone's dream life.

What in the name of bad takes

You say bad takes. I say real life can be terrible. And most people complaining about how bad they have it, don't understand what true suffering is. There's so truly horrific things that people do to each other.

[WittyUsername]

I have no idea what’s going on in this thread, but I will say that if anyone in Dragon Ball is an abusive parent, Vegeta in the Cell arc fits the bill better than Goku. It takes Trunks dying before Vegeta actually gives a damn about his future or present selves, and he’s shown physically attacking Trunks for getting in his way.

[MasenkoHA]

Some orphans out there wish they had a parent to abuse them. I've met them. Told them "No, you don't". They replied, "At least they care enough to keep the kid around".

Just saying. Whether good or bad, you're living someone's dream life.

What in the name of bad takes

You say bad takes. I say real life can be terrible. And most people complaining about how bad they have it, don't understand what true suffering is. There's so truly horrific things that people do to each other.

Julie: I had two abusive parent:
You: Yeah well some people wish they had parents! At least you had parents to abuse you.


Yeah no your take is shit and garbage.

[MyVisionity]

I have no idea what’s going on in this thread, but I will say that if anyone in Dragon Ball is an abusive parent, Vegeta in the Cell arc fits the bill better than Goku. It takes Trunks dying before Vegeta actually gives a damn about his future or present selves, and he’s shown physically attacking Trunks for getting in his way.

Trunks wasn't a little boy, he was a young man. And more than powerful enough to take it. Plus Vegeta hadn't been any sort of father figure to Future Trunks in the first place.

He was neglectful of baby Trunks true.

[WittyUsername]

I have no idea what’s going on in this thread, but I will say that if anyone in Dragon Ball is an abusive parent, Vegeta in the Cell arc fits the bill better than Goku. It takes Trunks dying before Vegeta actually gives a damn about his future or present selves, and he’s shown physically attacking Trunks for getting in his way.

Trunks wasn't a little boy, he was a young man. And more than powerful enough to take it. Plus Vegeta hadn't been any sort of father figure to Future Trunks in the first place.

He was neglectful of baby Trunks true.

Attacking your son is still abuse, regardless of age.

[MyVisionity]

Maybe so, but I don't think that I would hold it against Vegeta or anything like that.

[JulieYBM]

Maybe so, but I don't think that I would hold it against Vegeta or anything like that.

Nobody can train against the emotional trauma of being verbally, emotionally or physically assaulted by their father. You're going to shatter like glass the second it happens and no matter what you'll never be prepared for it. That's why it's called trauma, it just keeps repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating until the day you die.

Not to get too personal or anything but my dad died two months ago and I've still got certain things that trigger me. It fucking sucks.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Maybe so, but I don't think that I would hold it against Vegeta or anything like that.

Nobody can't train against the emotional trauma of being verbally, emotionally or physically assaulted by their father. You're going to shatter like glass the second it happens and no matter what you'll never be prepared for it. That's why it's called trauma, it just keeps repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating until the day you die.

Not to get too personal or anything but my dad died two months ago and I've still got certain things that trigger me. It fucking sucks.

Ouch that turned my gut to read, even though i can't personally relate to your situation in that way given my parents were and never have been like that to me. I've read some of your posts mentioning things that happened to you previously and it legit choked me up at times. How any parent(s) in their right mind can treat their child like that is just utterly sickening and an unforgivable travesty.

Speaking to Vegeta's bit with Trunks there, yeah he definitely put too much into that hit.

[JulieYBM]

Maybe so, but I don't think that I would hold it against Vegeta or anything like that.

Nobody can't train against the emotional trauma of being verbally, emotionally or physically assaulted by their father. You're going to shatter like glass the second it happens and no matter what you'll never be prepared for it. That's why it's called trauma, it just keeps repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating until the day you die.

Not to get too personal or anything but my dad died two months ago and I've still got certain things that trigger me. It fucking sucks.

Ouch that turned my gut to read, even though i can't personally relate to your situation in that way given my parents were and never have been like that to me. I've read some of your posts mentioning things that happened to you previously and it legit choked me up at times. How any parent(s) in their right mind can treat their child like that is just utterly sickening and an unforgivable travesty.

Speaking to Vegeta's bit with Trunks there, yeah he definitely put too much into that hit.

Thank you for your kind words. I won't get into specifics but yeah, it really sucks when you can't turn to your parents for genuine emotional support.

[MyVisionity]

Nobody can train against the emotional trauma of being verbally, emotionally or physically assaulted by their father. You're going to shatter like glass the second it happens and no matter what you'll never be prepared for it. That's why it's called trauma, it just keeps repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating until the day you die.

Not to get too personal or anything but my dad died two months ago and I've still got certain things that trigger me. It fucking sucks.

I'm sorry to hear that. You make a good point about emotional trauma and its lasting effects.

Speaking to Vegeta's bit with Trunks there, yeah he definitely put too much into that hit.

Yeah that's true, but Vegeta is generally excessive and brutal, so it's not much of an exception for Trunks. I don't really fault Vegeta for any kind of flawed parenting, given his character.

Ultimately, they are both two warriors on the battlefield, so incidents like this are bound to come up sometime.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Nobody can't train against the emotional trauma of being verbally, emotionally or physically assaulted by their father. You're going to shatter like glass the second it happens and no matter what you'll never be prepared for it. That's why it's called trauma, it just keeps repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating until the day you die.

Not to get too personal or anything but my dad died two months ago and I've still got certain things that trigger me. It fucking sucks.

Ouch that turned my gut to read, even though i can't personally relate to your situation in that way given my parents were and never have been like that to me. I've read some of your posts mentioning things that happened to you previously and it legit choked me up at times. How any parent(s) in their right mind can treat their child like that is just utterly sickening and an unforgivable travesty.

Speaking to Vegeta's bit with Trunks there, yeah he definitely put too much into that hit.

Thank you for your kind words. I won't get into specifics but yeah, it really sucks when you can't turn to your parents for genuine emotional support.

Of course, Julie. Though i can't really relate to or truly comprehend the difficulties that you personally face it definitely is legit awful that the two people who are supposed to love and care for you in that way don't.

I'll never know that feeling firsthand, but it is indeed horrible to hear and i couldn't even begin to imagine something like some of the stuff you've described here on the forum before.

quote=SuperSaiyaManZ94 post_id=1713802 time=1629431321 user_id=124221
Speaking to Vegeta's bit with Trunks there, yeah he definitely put too much into that hit.

Yeah that's true, but Vegeta is generally excessive and brutal, so it's not much of an exception for Trunks. I don't really fault Vegeta for any kind of flawed parenting, given his character.

Ultimately, they are both two warriors on the battlefield, so incidents like this are bound to come up sometime.
[/quote]

[/quote]

I agree, and partly because that's his nature as a Saiyan and seeing as he grew up the crown prince of said race. This has more or less been his character all his life even after growing out of being purely villainous.

[miguelnuva1]

Vegeta is a saiyan there are a lot of things we as humans will consider abuse that we don't know how people on Planet Vegeta were brought up. Vegeta was raised to be the way he was and consider Frieza was his father his treatment of Trunks could have been much worse.

Trunks is a saiyan and a warrior, so what is abuse to him shouldn't be looked at the same way as us. Vegeta was a bad parent but we also should judge based on bad human parents. The same way in the Buu saga when he hits Trunks while they are training. A grown him man hitting a kid like that would be disgusting but with Vegeta and Trunks it was akin to rough housing going a little too far.

Goku is the same way, a lot of what he does would be bad as a Human father but in his circumstances his choices aren't as bad as a human father doing so.

[jjgp1112]

I'm pretty sure the entire purpose of showing Vegeta punch Future Trunks was to make him look pretty shitty as a father, so I'm not quite sure how this tired warrior rhetoric works.

[JulieYBM]

Vegeta is a saiyan there are a lot of things we as humans will consider abuse that we don't know how people on Planet Vegeta were brought up. Vegeta was raised to be the way he was and consider Frieza was his father his treatment of Trunks could have been much worse.

Trunks is a saiyan and a warrior, so what is abuse to him shouldn't be looked at the same way as us. Vegeta was a bad parent but we also should judge based on bad human parents. The same way in the Buu saga when he hits Trunks while they are training. A grown him man hitting a kid like that would be disgusting but with Vegeta and Trunks it was akin to rough housing going a little too far.

Goku is the same way, a lot of what he does would be bad as a Human father but in his circumstances his choices aren't as bad as a human father doing so.

This isn't some horny erotic novel for adults, it's a kids' comic. Trying to play off clear abuse under a romanticism of being 'warriors' doesn't cut the cheese because teaching kids to disregard abuse is so extremely beyond the pale that a big titty Goth girlfriend would blush.

[MasenkoHA]

Can we stop using the “Well in Saiyan culture blabbity blah blah” excuse for when Goku and Vegeta do shitty things?

Especially when Goku was raised as an earthling anyways.

[JulieYBM]

Can we stop using the “Well in Saiyan culture blabbity blah blah” excuse for when Goku and Vegeta do shitty things?

Especially when Goku was raised as an earthling anyways.

Nb4 "abuse is genetic!"

[Koitsukai]

The cultural excuse is invalid, they stone women in other cultures, the fact that it happens in another culture doesn't make it any better. What's wrong is wrong, regardless of the enviroment where it's taking place.

[super michael]

Vegeta is a saiyan there are a lot of things we as humans will consider abuse that we don't know how people on Planet Vegeta were brought up. Vegeta was raised to be the way he was and consider Frieza was his father his treatment of Trunks could have been much worse.

Trunks is a saiyan and a warrior, so what is abuse to him shouldn't be looked at the same way as us. Vegeta was a bad parent but we also should judge based on bad human parents. The same way in the Buu saga when he hits Trunks while they are training. A grown him man hitting a kid like that would be disgusting but with Vegeta and Trunks it was akin to rough housing going a little too far.

Goku is the same way, a lot of what he does would be bad as a Human father but in his circumstances his choices aren't as bad as a human father doing so.

I am very sure Vegeta helping his enemies over helping his own flesh and blood and attacking said flesh and blood is wrong. Trunks had to attack Vegeta, so Vegeta doesn't stop Trunks for killing Cell. Which sadly Cell gained distance thanks to Vegeta being stupid.

Vegeta in the Martial Art Tournament he just killed at random, luckily he didn't hit anyone he knows but still evil.

Goku has never shown to be a bad husband or bad father in Dragon Ball. But Vegeta he has shown to be a bad father and husband many times.