Dragon Ball DVDs framerate

[Spadexxione]

Do the Dragon Ball and DBZ NTSC DVDs run at the native framerate? I'm asking cause I know NTSC DVDs run at 29,97 fps and are converted to 23,976 but I heard that this process results in duplicate frames that the PAL versions do not have.

[thejeremymenace]

When you encode an NTSC DVD from a 23.976fps film source, you need to run it through a process called telecine to get 59.94 fields/sec (29.97fps). Think of it like having to fit 24 frames into 60 fields. Since it doesn't divide evenly, you need to show one frame for 2 fields, and the next for 3 fields. Hence, the name "2:3 pulldown" for the normal telecine process. This is why you get that NTSC frame judder on a traditional TV or on a 60hz LCD.

In the case of Dragon Ball, the DVDs are encoded progressively, so they adhere to this 2:3 pulldown. Every other frame is shown for 1.5x the length. You can still reconstruct the original frames though via inverse telecine, which gives you a 30fps video where every 4th frame is duplicated, and then you can decimate the stream (remove duplicate frames). So you're correct in a way -- there's no duplicate frames in the source video, but as a symptom of NTSC, this is how things work.

In the case of PAL, the destination is 50 fields/sec. In a lot of cases for progressive PAL video, they basically duplicate every 12th field, which when you inverse telecine, ends up with every 24th frame duped (2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown).

Most of this is from memory so feel free to correct me on this.

[Spadexxione]

When you encode an NTSC DVD from a 23.976fps film source, you need to run it through a process called telecine to get 59.94 fields/sec (29.97fps). Think of it like having to fit 24 frames into 60 fields. Since it doesn't divide evenly, you need to show one frame for 2 fields, and the next for 3 fields. Hence, the name "2:3 pulldown" for the normal telecine process. This is why you get that NTSC frame judder on a traditional TV or on a 60hz LCD.

In the case of Dragon Ball, the DVDs are encoded progressively, so they adhere to this 2:3 pulldown. Every other frame is shown for 1.5x the length. You can still reconstruct the original frames though via inverse telecine, which gives you a 30fps video where every 4th frame is duplicated, and then you can decimate the stream (remove duplicate frames). So you're correct in a way -- there's no duplicate frames in the source video, but as a symptom of NTSC, this is how things work.

In the case of PAL, the destination is 50 fields/sec. In a lot of cases for progressive PAL video, they basically duplicate every 12th field, which when you inverse telecine, ends up with every 24th frame duped (2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown).

Most of this is from memory so feel free to correct me on this.

Thank you very much, It was really helpful

[Robo4900]

In the case of PAL, the destination is 50 fields/sec. In a lot of cases for progressive PAL video, they basically duplicate every 12th field, which when you inverse telecine, ends up with every 24th frame duped (2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown).

Most of this is from memory so feel free to correct me on this.

It's far, far, far more common for PAL to either just speed the video up by 4% (and thus have fully progressive 25fps video), or blend the 60 fields of an NTSC tape down into 50. And indeed, all Dragon Ball DVDs that I am aware of fall into one of these two categories.

Interestingly, if the source NTSC tape was produced from a 24fps source using 3:2 pulldown, you can often reconstruct the original 24 source frames per second from a blended PAL conversion of an NTSC source (the Avisynth filters are QTGMC followed by srestore); the process is staggeringly slow in terms of render times, but it works. In fact, this sort of conversion is the best quality you'll ever get the original syndicated Saban/Ocean/Funimation dub of DBZ (both the '90s American DVD singles and the Rock The Dragon set suck ass. The Australian DVDs are far better but are blended).

[Spadexxione]

In the case of PAL, the destination is 50 fields/sec. In a lot of cases for progressive PAL video, they basically duplicate every 12th field, which when you inverse telecine, ends up with every 24th frame duped (2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown).

Most of this is from memory so feel free to correct me on this.

It's far, far, far more common for PAL to either just speed the video up by 4% (and thus have fully progressive 25fps video), or blend the 60 fields of an NTSC tape down into 50. And indeed, all Dragon Ball DVDs that I am aware of fall into one of these two categories.

Interestingly, if the source NTSC tape was produced from a 24fps source using 3:2 pulldown, you can often reconstruct the original 24 source frames per second from a blended PAL conversion of an NTSC source (the Avisynth filters are QTGMC followed by srestore); the process is staggeringly slow in terms of render times, but it works. In fact, this sort of conversion is the best quality you'll ever get the original syndicated Saban/Ocean/Funimation dub of DBZ (both the '90s American DVD singles and the Rock The Dragon set suck ass. The Australian DVDs are far better but are blended).

In my state DB is even dubbed with the 4% speed up in mind. Our old DVD releases were also sourced from sped up tapes, then they released a new DVD version that uses dragon box footage as a source (but looks worse than the actual dragon boxes) and it plays at the NTSC speed with the audio having a lower pitch.