Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

[Koitsukai]

I'd argue media HELPS shape people, but it is not the driving force to it.
I believe it was Durkheim who spoke about how society was and always will be there for the newborns, to let them know how to behave, what role they'll have and how to perform it in order to "remain" as part of society. This includes how women are treated, and how should women behave as well. You learn that at home, at school, at church, at the park, at the Xmas table, at the beach and, yes, you turn on the TV and usually it reinforces what you've already been told. That's why nobody raised an eyebrow 20 or 30 years ago when these kind of gags were on TV, because "it was ok, it was normal", and even obscene-gag TV shows were popular.

Media is a tool of society to reinforce these standards or whatever you want to call them, but you remove media from the equation and the problems will remain because they are rooted in society. Not that there's nothing to gain from re-thinking what's on the media, it's definitely a good start.

[JulieYBM]

People raised concerns, they were just ignored. Women and marginalized people have always stood up for their representation in media and treatment (or kept quiet for personal safety reasons).

Again, 'nobody cared' just means 'cishet white men' didn't care. People who benefit from our white supremacist society are typically the last people to speak up.

[Ringworm128]

At least 40% of cops self-admit to domestic abuse, the actual numbers are probably higher. Whether it's "most" is not much of an argument in the face of "it's a fucking lot".

A job like policing that gives people the authority and the opportunity to be violent is going to attract certain kinds of people. Best place to start would be having higher psyche standards, more training, annual mental health tests, and disbanding police unions or other methods to make it easier to fire cops that step out of line; not making sure they don't watch Dirty Harry when they're teenagers.

Well then perhaps media reinforcing that psyche is worthy of criticism.

Nah it's not. Also civilians should be able to own tanks and grenade launchers.

Good thing nobody is fucking doing that then. Please actually read the shit you're responding to.

This entire argument is literally you all trying to convince me that "dirty old anime man" gags from an anime we all watched as kids is somehow going to make kids grow up thinking molestation is a ok.

Okay, so then prove that media is never a formative influence on someone's development then. Obviously you have to make a case for art never affecting anyone's opinion or beliefs in any way for your point to stand, so make that point already or stop peddling this bullshit strawman.

If you have to stretch the case for media being a significant influence so far that it becomes almost unfalsifiable then it's safe to say it doesn't have any significant influence.

Except not all fanbases have the same concentration of people with reactionary politics, do they? Which means that the social and political views portrayed, whether intentional or not, are necessarily relevant and active in discussion of that media.

What are you even going on about? The average Dragon Ball fan isn't even political and if they are they're usually just you're average left leaning liberal.

That would be an influence that video games had on them, then. If a game gives you a surge of adrenaline, that means it has fundamentally had an effect on you. That effect can be more or less-pronounced depending on what is being consumed, who is consuming it and how, and it doesn't have to be "shooter game make shooter real" no matter how much you bang on about stupid bullshit nobody is fucking saying.

I highly recommend if you don't want to look like a complete chode, checking out something like parasocial contact hypothesis, which says that we can interact and relate to characters in media similar to the way we do real people while maintaining an understanding of fiction and reality, that nonetheless does in fact change things about us. People who would otherwise have zero exposure to people of color have become less-racist simply by consuming media with diverse casts. Hell, look at any educational entertainment and ask whether learning new information might possibly fucking change someone's opinion or understanding of the world. It is so colossally full of shit to equate "media can have a negative effect on people" with "violent video games cause real-world violence".

Again it's such a small influence it's not even worth bringing up. Your argument is pretty much: "You say media won't create bad people, yet you felt sad when you watched this sad movie."

Fucking yes? Literally every experience you have changes you in some way??? This is extremely basic shit?

And how many of these experiences have any actual meaningful impact?

"Don't trust so-called 'scientists', trust whether you can see the curve of the Earth from the ground, that's what's real. It's flat."

I'm not distrusting of literally every study and piece of academia. There's plenty of credibility to things like the Earth being round, engineering and gravity existing. Just because I don't buy some pseudo intellectual "the curtains aren't just blue" nonsense doesn't mean I'm "anti-intellectual"

Anti-intellectualism is the path of fools, frauds and fascists. The sooner you understand that and either reveal yourself

Annnnd there it is. Ah you're one of those types of people; I'm sure the way you see everything is 100% rational and not at all informed by paranoid bias.
Yeah I'm totally a fascist because I don't buy into your Tipper Gore-esc nonsense.

[JulieYBM]

We should disband the police. ♥

[Zephyr]

Most academic nonsense can easily be debunked though common sense or simply living in the actual real world. Most of it is just overly worded fluff that only sounds smart because it uses a ton of buzzwords and made up connections.

Tell me you hate learning without telling me you hate learning.

[VegettoEX]

When our community guidelines say we're down for "challenging" conversations, that doesn't mean we're under any obligation to put up with a certain type of people and/or their viewpoints.

You can call it a "hivemind" (it isn't). You can call it "elitist" (it isn't). You can say conversations used to be better "back in the day" (they weren't). You can call it whatever you want. That's fine. You can find another community. You can even make your own. With blackjack and hookers. You can complain about it there. That's always a fun read. Your stories are hilarious.

We know who we are, what know what's real, and that's that.

(I really don't even understand how it is that someone can end up on an ancient thing like a message board attached to a traditional fan website whose entire purpose is built around facts and documenting history by providing extensive documentation and original research and be... well... "that way.")

Various accounts' moderation in process. Additional comments in this thread must be on topic, willing to be challenged by actual information and empathy, etc. etc. etc. you know the drill.

[Shaddy]

So that's police apologia, the same strawman again about four times, more pushback against academic endeavors, and just a hint of climate denial there near the end? Yeah, okay.

ANYWAY.

Is it me or is the title of the article a bit misleading? It really makes it sound like "sexual harassment claims" were made towards some individual which got the show taken off the air, rather than someone correctly identifying that one character in the show literally assaults women all the time.

[Hellspawn28]

Transphobia and racism in media have literally shaped how trans people and black have been viewed.

This is true. Birth of a Nation back in 1915 has left a bad impact on how people view black people and the entire film is hate speech promoting the idea of black people being monsters. With Transphobia, some of it can be so casual that people don't even notice it. People tend to view Trans Women has big hairy guys that like to cross dress and wear make up or boys that like to play dolls. Movies and TV shows such as Family Guy, Bobs Burgers, How I Meet Your Mother, CSI, and Sleepway Camp come to mind. I was not your stereotyped trans women because I didn't play with dolls or wearing dresses or makeup. I've always been a bit of a private person, and I've never really liked making a show of myself for many years.

Even supposedly sympathetic portrayals by cis actors playing trans people end up supporting the idea that trans people aren't their gender or even a separate identity. I like the movie Boys Don't Cry as much as the next guy, but they should have a Trans Male to play the role of Brandon Teena.

[super michael]

So that's police apologia, the same strawman again about four times, more pushback against academic endeavors, and just a hint of climate denial there near the end? Yeah, okay.

ANYWAY.

Is it me or is the title of the article a bit misleading? It really makes it sound like "sexual harassment claims" were made towards some individual which got the show taken off the air, rather than someone correctly identifying that one character in the show literally assaults women all the time.

I just copied the title from the website that I found. I was surprised when I saw it on Facebook.

Although I don't mind changing the title of the thread.

[Yuji]

The other way around has been proven not to work.

Can you please cite the studies that show this?

You don't need a peer-reviewed study to realize how braindead attempts to change media representation before changing the education system have flared up the Gamergate and Trump crowd in the past decade and helped move people in the center or center-left to the alt-right.

You don't teach through media. You use media to teach.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

You don't need a peer-reviewed study to realize how braindead attempts to change media representation before changing the education system have flared up the Gamergate and Trump crowd in the past decade and helped move people in the center or center-left to the alt-right.

You don't teach through media. You use media to teach.

You're proving nothing with saying that alone, how are we certain what you say is correct without something to corroborate with?

[JulieYBM]

The other way around has been proven not to work.

Can you please cite the studies that show this?

You don't need a peer-reviewed study to realize how braindead attempts to change media representation before changing the education system have flared up the Gamergate and Trump crowd in the past decade and helped move people in the center or center-left to the alt-right.

You don't teach through media. You use media to teach.

You say this like nobody will learn anything...which is not true. I'd have learned a lot from better representations of gender and sexuality in art. Bigots keep us out of mass media so hide our history from us and make us recede into ourselves so that we conform to society.

[Hellspawn28]

Political correctness is a cancer that has been trying to get into anime and manga for a long time, these people completely don't understand Toriyama's humor or the atmosphere of the series, they try to fight something they don't know.

“Political Correctness” is another way of saying “I want to be able to do and say anything and not face consequences for it”.

Political Correctness also means "Not having a straight white CIS Christian male = Woke". You can't have anything with a person of color or a different gender without people bitching about it

We should disband the police. ♥

We should disband the US Miltary as well.

[Yuji]

Can you please cite the studies that show this?

You don't need a peer-reviewed study to realize how braindead attempts to change media representation before changing the education system have flared up the Gamergate and Trump crowd in the past decade and helped move people in the center or center-left to the alt-right.

You don't teach through media. You use media to teach.

You say this like nobody will learn anything...which is not true. I'd have learned a lot from better representations of gender and sexuality in art. Bigots keep us out of mass media so hide our history from us and make us recede into ourselves so that we conform to society.

I'm not saying it doesn't teach people anything. It helps people who already have a predisposition for those certain ideas but it doesn't convert anyone from one side to another, it might in fact do the opposite if representation is badly handled. The way to eradicate bigots or people with prejudice, big or small, is not to silence their media, as that does nothing to address the underlying biases that they project onto their art, but to revamp the school system for posterity.

[JulieYBM]

You don't need a peer-reviewed study to realize how braindead attempts to change media representation before changing the education system have flared up the Gamergate and Trump crowd in the past decade and helped move people in the center or center-left to the alt-right.

You don't teach through media. You use media to teach.

You say this like nobody will learn anything...which is not true. I'd have learned a lot from better representations of gender and sexuality in art. Bigots keep us out of mass media so hide our history from us and make us recede into ourselves so that we conform to society.

I'm not saying it doesn't teach people anything. It helps people who already have a predisposition for those certain ideas but it doesn't convert anyone from one side to another, it might in fact do the opposite if representation is badly handled. The way to eradicate bigots or people with prejudice, big or small, is not to silence their media, as that does nothing to address the underlying biases that they project onto their art, but to revamp the school system for posterity.

Nobody ever said you only do one thing at a time. We're saying that positive media portrayals are important.

[Polyphase Avatron]

We should disband the police. ♥

We should disband the US Miltary as well.

And replace them with what?

[JulieYBM]

We should disband the police. ♥

We should disband the US Miltary as well.

And replace them with what?

Something that doesn't waste our natural resources and manpower to spread US imperialism across the planet.

[Yuji]

You say this like nobody will learn anything...which is not true. I'd have learned a lot from better representations of gender and sexuality in art. Bigots keep us out of mass media so hide our history from us and make us recede into ourselves so that we conform to society.

I'm not saying it doesn't teach people anything. It helps people who already have a predisposition for those certain ideas but it doesn't convert anyone from one side to another, it might in fact do the opposite if representation is badly handled. The way to eradicate bigots or people with prejudice, big or small, is not to silence their media, as that does nothing to address the underlying biases that they project onto their art, but to revamp the school system for posterity.

Nobody ever said you only do one thing at a time. We're saying that positive media portrayals are important.

Of course they are helpful. But I'm addressing the statements here that negative media portrayals convert people who would otherwise have no inherent bias, that's just not true. They just reaffirm pre-existing biases in the consumer, and that's what needs addressing. Getting rid of negative portrayals of marginalized people in media won't get rid of the social problems they face, or eradicate problematic behavior, like some people here are implying, that's my point.

[Polyphase Avatron]

We should disband the US Miltary as well.

And replace them with what?

Something that doesn't waste our natural resources and manpower to spread US imperialism across the planet.

Care to be any more specific?

[JulieYBM]

I'm not saying it doesn't teach people anything. It helps people who already have a predisposition for those certain ideas but it doesn't convert anyone from one side to another, it might in fact do the opposite if representation is badly handled. The way to eradicate bigots or people with prejudice, big or small, is not to silence their media, as that does nothing to address the underlying biases that they project onto their art, but to revamp the school system for posterity.

Nobody ever said you only do one thing at a time. We're saying that positive media portrayals are important.

Of course they are helpful. But I'm addressing the statements here that negative media portrayals convert people who would otherwise have no inherent bias, that's just not true. They just reaffirm pre-existing biases in the consumer, and that's what needs addressing. Getting rid of negative portrayals of marginalized people in media won't get rid of the social problems they face, or eradicate problematic behavior, like some people here are implying, that's my point.

And we're not saying it does. Nichole Maines' acting doesn't get me free healthcare that I need to save my life but it does tell trans kids "hey, you are normal" and tells their parents "hey, your kids are going to turn out alright" and it tells their classmates and their classmates' parents "hey, they're not Buffalo Bill, they're people with aspirations just like you."

People can be radicalized one way or the other. We see it with TERFs and those that fall into that trap because most people don't know openly trans people in their real lives. Many of my co-workers still treat me like a pariah. I have motherfuckers calling me 'bud' like I'm One of the Guys, just because I won't maintain high-fem mannerisms or clothing all the time (hi, misogyny). A positive media portrayal will at least improve context for people like that. One trans person can't represent all of trans people but multiple and varied media portrayals can help alleviate that. The same goes for any and all women, too.