GT vs Super

[TheGreatness25]

I doubt that massively. Since Toriyama never wrote GT (he only did some drawings/concept arts), while he indeed wrote Super, he would have no reason to work with something that he never created in the first place. Plus the characters in GT are not *his* characters, so he might not feel confident working with them.

After the new movie is released, which from the looks of things is very close to End of Z, Super will likely replace GT in the decades following the End of Z.

Yeah, but Super did Broli twice (Broli inspired, then actual Broli), so that's why there's always a possibility. I'm sure that the comparisons to GT haven't gone unnoticed by Toei at least.

Well at best we'll get an arc that thematically is similar to the Shadow Dragon arcs, but that is it.

Since it is impossible for the Super 17 arc to impact Super in any way, due to the way Hell works as established by Toriyama (so Gero and some other evil scientist would never meet to make an evil copy of 17...), and the Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans movie, which obviously inspired the Baby arc, has somewhat inspired the current Granolah arc but not too much. Granolah has in common with Hatchyak/Baby only the fact that he wants to avenge his people against the Saiyans, aside from that he's massively different.

Even the new Broly is massively different and is a redeemed and misguided man, while the old Broly was literally just Satan incarnate in terms of personality.

Though honestly I doubt Toriyama will ever look at the Shadow Dragon arc because it wasn't nearly as popular and iconic as the Broly trilogy, not even close, and it has a stigma attached to it due to being part of GT.

I didn't mean that we would get beat-for-beat retelling of GT that would include things from Super to rid them in together. I meant that it's fully possible that we might get some sort of arc (timeline crossover or tournament or something) that's a nod to GT (like featuring GT character models) that could serve as an interesting "Wow, GT still happenes in another timeline" moment. Will it happen? Most likely not. But could it happen? Absolutely. Unlike GT, where nothing could happen because the story of GT has been abandoned. That's what I mean when I say that at least with Super being an ongoing series, there's always room to build and grow the story. GT exists in its little box because it's been abandoned, so nothing new could ever really happen there. Unless Super takes it upon itself to build on it.

[Koitsukai]

I happen to like both of them, while acknowledging they are as flawed as they can be, DBS manga included.

At the end of the day, I prefer Super because of the fights, which are still the reason I tune DB for in the first place.
GT has not-so-memorable fights and not even that many fights either, and the bad luck of having the defining episodes animated by awful studios/animators, ending up with the saiyanVtsufuru's final bout's episode being a pain to watch. Or a blind SS4 Goku beating Ih Shenron. So even the few interesting fights were ruined by the art.
Some episodes were greatly animated, others ok, and some others plainly suck. While DBS has a steady not-amazing style althroughout its run, improving towards the end coinciding with the best fights of the show as well.

What I enjoy the most of GT is everything but the fights, like the space journey and Baby on Earth. The S17 arc is just pure fighting all over the place and there's not a single fight I'm interested in re-watching. While DBS has plenty of fights, in every style, sparring, deathbattles, tournaments, training. Some suck, sure but some others are fantastic.

[ZombieVito]

Super.

It dances around GT so much that it's unreal. GT actually killed my love for Dragon Ball for many years. Super made my love stronger than ever.

[8000 Saiyan]

Having rewatched the Evil Dragon Arc a few months ago, yeah, it probably is one of the most disappointing arcs in the franchise. Not only because of the concept itself of the Dragon Balls turning evil, but because only Goku gets to shine. The writers seriously dropped the ball on this one. I mean, you have seven Evil Dragons. Let Gohan, Goten, Vegeta, Trunks and Uub fight them too, not just Goku.

And I'm pretty sure that you could have done the concept of the Ultimate Dragon Balls being scattered throughout space without turning Goku into a kid. Was it really necessary to turn him back into a kid? If not, then maybe have somehow the power of SSJ4 not only break the wish of Goku being a kid again, but he returns to being an adult in his base form too.

[MyVisionity]

Having rewatched the Evil Dragon Arc a few months ago, yeah, it probably is one of the most disappointing arcs in the franchise. Not only because of the concept itself of the Dragon Balls turning evil, but because only Goku gets to shine. The writers seriously dropped the ball on this one. I mean, you have seven Evil Dragons. Let Gohan, Goten, Vegeta, Trunks and Uub fight them too, not just Goku.

And I'm pretty sure that you could have done the concept of the Ultimate Dragon Balls being scattered throughout space without turning Goku into a kid. Was it really necessary to turn him back into a kid? If not, then maybe have somehow the power of SSJ4 not only break the wish of Goku being a kid again, but he returns to being an adult in his base form too.

I think that Goku getting all the focus in the Evil Dragons arc may have been because it was the final arc, so they wanted it to be as much about Goku as possible.

Goku being a kid again might have been because of the 10th anniversary movie.

[Majin Buu]

The ending wasn't about him. His being the one to take "Goku's spot" wasn't the point. It was about Goku's excitement for the future bc there were more mountains to climb.

That would be all fine and good if no Dragon Ball stuff was set after the manga's ending, but if you're going to explicitly continue on from that, then it's a glaring omission to have the character specifically designated as Goku's successor be little more than a footnote.

[MasenkoHA]

The ending wasn't about him. His being the one to take "Goku's spot" wasn't the point. It was about Goku's excitement for the future bc there were more mountains to climb.

That would be all fine and good if no Dragon Ball stuff was set after the manga's ending, but if you're going to explicitly continue on from that, then it's a glaring omission to have the character specifically designated as Goku's successor be little more than a footnote.

And this is probably why Super takes place before Z’s epilogue despite fan complaints.

[SupremeKai25]

I also disagree with the idea that Super's concepts are "banal".

For instance, sure, the idea of "Evil Goku" already existed in fanfiction for years, but in fanfiction "Evil Goku" was just an edgy version of Goku if he never hit his head or if he was raised by Saiyans. Meanwhile Goku Black is not even Goku but a rogue Supreme Kai who stole his body for the sake of Justice. While every Evil Goku in fanfic is just another brute like the saiyans who wants to conquer worlds and wage war, Goku Black (being Zamasu) thinks he's doing the right thing and is trying to create a new Cosmos, and he's far from a Saiyan brute; he acts, speaks, and fights with elegance and grace. THAT is creative and is something no fanfic ever did. "Evil Goku" is basically Turles, nothing more, and that's NOT Goku Black.

Hell, the concept would have been banal if Goku Black was just some alternate version of Goku who never hit his head and was raised by Zamasu instead of Grandpa Gohan, like many people theorized. THAT would have actually been straight out of fanfic (isn't that basically Xicor from AF?). Instead Goku Black was not an alternate Goku, but a rogue Supreme Kai who stole Goku's body for his plans.

So even conceptually Super's concepts are very creative and original. Saying that they feel "fanfiction-ish" is doing a disservice to Super, I might as well just say that Baby is a recycle of Hatchyak

[MasenkoHA]

I also disagree with the idea that Super's concepts are "banal".

For instance, sure, the idea of "Evil Goku" already existed in fanfiction for years, but in fanfiction "Evil Goku" was just an edgy version of Goku if he never hit his head or if he was raised by Saiyans. Meanwhile Goku Black is not even Goku but a rogue Supreme Kai who stole his body for the sake of Justice. While every Evil Goku in fanfic is just another brute like the saiyans who wants to conquer worlds and wage war, Goku Black (being Zamasu) thinks he's doing the right thing and is trying to create a new Cosmos, and he's far from a Saiyan brute; he acts, speaks, and fights with elegance and grace. THAT is creative and is something no fanfic ever did. "Evil Goku" is basically Turles, nothing more, and that's NOT Goku Black.

Hell, the concept would have been banal if Goku Black was just some alternate version of Goku who never hit his head and was raised by Zamasu instead of Grandpa Gohan, like many people theorized. THAT would have actually been straight out of fanfic (isn't that basically Xicor from AF?). Instead Goku Black was not an alternate Goku, but a rogue Supreme Kai who stole Goku's body for his plans.

So even conceptually Super's concepts are very creative and original. Saying that they feel "fanfiction-ish" is doing a disservice to Super, I might as well just say that Baby is a recycle of Hatchyak

Evil villain with a personality that differs from the hero and takes over heroes body is a trope that has been around forever. Dragon Ball literally did that with Captain Ginyu on a much smaller scale.

I’m not here to argue for or against Dragon Ball Super doing it well (which is far more important than doing something original imo) but to say anything about the Zamasu arc was original or unique is just inaccurate.

[SupremeKai25]

I also disagree with the idea that Super's concepts are "banal".

For instance, sure, the idea of "Evil Goku" already existed in fanfiction for years, but in fanfiction "Evil Goku" was just an edgy version of Goku if he never hit his head or if he was raised by Saiyans. Meanwhile Goku Black is not even Goku but a rogue Supreme Kai who stole his body for the sake of Justice. While every Evil Goku in fanfic is just another brute like the saiyans who wants to conquer worlds and wage war, Goku Black (being Zamasu) thinks he's doing the right thing and is trying to create a new Cosmos, and he's far from a Saiyan brute; he acts, speaks, and fights with elegance and grace. THAT is creative and is something no fanfic ever did. "Evil Goku" is basically Turles, nothing more, and that's NOT Goku Black.

Hell, the concept would have been banal if Goku Black was just some alternate version of Goku who never hit his head and was raised by Zamasu instead of Grandpa Gohan, like many people theorized. THAT would have actually been straight out of fanfic (isn't that basically Xicor from AF?). Instead Goku Black was not an alternate Goku, but a rogue Supreme Kai who stole Goku's body for his plans.

So even conceptually Super's concepts are very creative and original. Saying that they feel "fanfiction-ish" is doing a disservice to Super, I might as well just say that Baby is a recycle of Hatchyak

Evil villain with a personality that differs from the hero and takes over heroes body is a trope that has been around forever. Dragon Ball literally did that with Captain Ginyu on a much smaller scale.

I’m not here to argue for or against Dragon Ball Super doing it well (which is far more important than doing something original imo) but to say anything about the Zamasu arc was original or unique is just inaccurate.

It's unique because, conceptually, the writers decided that Zamasu would start being influenced by his host body personality-wise, which didn't happen with Ginyu. We see that Zamasu starts comparing people to food (calling Vegeta an "appetizer" for example) and starts looking for ultimate strength, which is something that his counterpart (who didn't switch bodies) doesn't care about.

I don't remember Ginyu ever being influenced in any way by the body he stole so that's original. It's not just a body steal storyline, it goes beyond that where the subject starts becoming like the victim whose body was stolen, in a way.

[theoriginalbilis]

For all of it's flaws, I enjoyed Super a lot more than GT. It still has that "Toriyama-voice" to it even with multiple writers working on it.

GT has plenty of great things going for it though; but IMO, they peaked during the Bebi arc. Super has felt like it's been improving with each arc. Or at the very least, Super has been utilizing the universe, lore, and characters better.

[ABED]

The ending wasn't about him. His being the one to take "Goku's spot" wasn't the point. It was about Goku's excitement for the future bc there were more mountains to climb.

That would be all fine and good if no Dragon Ball stuff was set after the manga's ending, but if you're going to explicitly continue on from that, then it's a glaring omission to have the character specifically designated as Goku's successor be little more than a footnote.

I don't care about Uub and honestly love that they didn't do anything with him. I have ZERO interest in Uub. There are more than enough characters in the cast as is that they haven't done enough with. Also, he's not that old, he's still learning. If he's going to be Goku's successor, it wouldn't be for quite some time.

[WittyUsername]

I’d say that the Future Trunks/Zamasu arc is fairly unique. I don’t think the execution behind Zamasu’s character is great, but we never had a Dragon Ball villain who was motivated by a warped sense of “justice” and misanthropy before. An evil Kaioshin isn’t a bad concept.

[Majin Buu]

I don't care about Uub and honestly love that they didn't do anything with him. I have ZERO interest in Uub.

Good, that doesn't mean everyone else shares your viewpoint. Fans who like Uub aren't inherently wrong for wanting him to be in more of the story. I only say this because you always post your opposition whenever someone expresses that they wish Uub was more involved in GT, and the tone that comes with it always feels like "you're wrong for liking the character and wishing he was in more of the story".

There are more than enough characters in the cast as is that they haven't done enough with. Also, he's not that old, he's still learning. If he's going to be Goku's successor, it wouldn't be for quite some time.

Just more reason to have him be more involved in the plot, so we can actually see him grow into the role. Again, if you're going to continue beyond the manga, he should be more involved. You can say "Uub doesn't matter" all you want, but Toriyama established him as Goku's successor at the end of the manga, continuing the story beyond that obligates him to be more involved in the plot than he was in GT. I'm not saying they should have made him the hero or the main character, just more present and involved.

[ABED]

They aren't fans of Uub, they are fans of an idea. He doesn't have much of a personality. And I don't think any writer is obligated to move forward with Uub. Gotenks and Gohan at different points were supposed to take that spot and failed. This could just be another example of that. Pan taking this "role" is far more satisfying.

You keep misunderstanding his role in the narrative. His primary function isn't to give Goku a successor. He's not a superhero passing on his mantle. That's a tertiary concern for Goku. What he is is a sparing partner.

I keep wondering why people latch onto "Goku's successor" as if it's that kind of story. What exactly is he supposed to take over? Is his role to be Earth's protector? Because that's not Goku's role. If that were, why introduce him at the last minute?

Lastly, I didn't think I had to make it explicit, but I thought it was quite clear that I was stating MY opinion. Hence the I statement.

[MasenkoHA]

Let’s also remember GT wasn’t made because someone at Toei thought there was more story to tell and had big ideas to take the franchise further than what Toriyama had planned. It’s existence is predicated on “We’re not ready for this money train to stop chugging” it was even flat out stated the hyper focus on Goku in GT compared to Z was because the target audience tend to lose interest when Goku wasn’t around.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

You know...I actually sort of agree with ABED here. I like Oob and all, but I don't think I'm drawn to his actual character so much as to the premise surrounding him, and it's not necessarily him taking over as Goku's successor. If you think about it, Oob has already fulfilled his purpose by just existing in the first place. Goku wanted Kid Boo to come back powerful and as a better person, and that's what Oob is. Oob has already fulfilled his purpose in the story by flying off with Goku to train and get stronger. And the same way Goku has influenced everyone, Oob himself is already living embodiment of Goku's influence and effect on people.

That's not to say Oob being a successor couldn't work or that more layers couldn't be added to his personality. But if anyone was to take over the series from Goku, I do think Pan is the most logical and satisfying character to do so. Oob could still be a supporting character available whenever needed, but I don't think any future series has to revolve around him.

[PurestEvil]

If Super's story is gonna go past EoZ, then developing Uub would be a smart move. He doesn't need to be a focus character, just someone with an actual personality. Making him a friend of Pan would be neat, too.

[ABED]

One other thing GT has going for it is GT gave us an ending, whereas Super's is clearly about leaving the door open for more.

[WittyUsername]

I don’t think Oob needed to be the main character of GT, but he could’ve been more significant than he was. Of course, the show in general gave practically everyone outside of Goku and Pan the shaft. Even Trunks, despite initially being billed as one of the three main characters, got pushed to the sidelines after they returned to Earth.

For the people who hate it when Goku gets all the spotlight, DBS would probably be preferable to GT. Vegeta gets nearly the same amount of focus as Goku, and the other characters get their time to shine as well.