Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 78 - Official Discussion Thread

[Xeogran]

Wasn't this arc supposed to be about Vegeta ? We cared about that ! Now what ? Why suddenly shift the attention to Granolah ?

Uh no, not really? It's called Granolah the Survivor arc

[BWri]

No judgement on the story's quality so far, but this is a very odd arc structure. Making this same wish twice in the same arc in the span of a few days is to me inherently off-putting but I'll see where they go with this.

These particular Dragon Balls have been the silliest thing about the arc to me since the beginning. If they ever have another strong guy they can't beat, just have Piccolo, Gohan, or Android 17 come and make this wish. They're all much younger than Goku, Vegeta, Granolah, and Gas and much stronger at comparable ages. And Piccolo and #17 have extended lifespans. And if another strong guy comes along, make the wish again.

I'm guessing Monaito's going to die so as to stop the wish-spamming, but man, I'm so tired of seeing dead Namekians. They are surely the series punching bag at this point.

[batistabus]

Not only did he refuse to use the Dragon Balls to do ANYTHING about the genocide of the Cereleans, he then also let Granolah work for the people who killed his mother for DECADES. What kind of a "friend" is that!?

I'm not going to address the rest of your post, but it's reasonable for you to be upset with Monaito. Granolah thinks he is in the wrong here, and Monaito feels he is as well. He's a quiet old man who didn't want any trouble. He tried to do what was best for both his adopted son and himself, but he ended up prolonging the issue because of it. He's doing what he can to make up for it at the moment, but so far, it's a bit too little too late. That's his character, and however you feel about that is up to you, but I don't think you should see this as a flaw in the writing. Not every character is going to be perfect or make the best decision in every scenario.

As for what he could've done with the Dragon Balls, aside from his likely conservative views on their use, we still don't know what happened to them in the past...

[Jinto]

Wasn't this arc supposed to be about Vegeta ? We cared about that ! Now what ? Why suddenly shift the attention to Granolah ?

Uh no, not really? It's called Granolah the Survivor arc

And yet the most engaging thing up to this point is Vegeta being confronted with his past. An engaging story, this is Toyo biggest flaw or even better some adrenaline, intense moment, like when Super buu straight up kill all people on earth because he wanted to fight the kids or when Cell fought C16 while targeting C17 that just fought Piccolo and just as everything was going for the worse, Tien come to kikoho Cell's ass into the ground using his life force only for Goku to come and teleport their ass while admitting he is still weaker than 2nd form Cell, man those were good !
Instead of all that, we have info dump, exposition with boring fight.
DB is all about over the top situation, twist and defeating an undefeatable villain !

[OrangeBanana]

Spoiler:

I'm gonna reserve full judgement till the chapter comes out. But honestly I kind of like the wish Elec made. I mean it makes complete sense and is in line with his character, the man himself likes to have powerful tools and considering this is dragon ball, power really only comes from one thing, and that is your POWER LEVEL. I suspect there might be a further twist perhaps maybe Gas decides to say screw it and rebel, I dunno.

[MCDaveG]

Where are the times, when Bardock made a small mutiny in TV Special and just died… to be revived as a time traveling Super Saiyan, getting more SSJ forms than Vegeta in Xenoverse, being basically savage Jor El and now, revived to meet Goku and settle some ancient revenge…

Sure he will get revived. Same like the annoying Broly got retconned into a Super continuity.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Spoiler:

I think it was pretty obvious all the way that the wish would be to make Gas stronger. Not sure how some people thought it was about Bardock someohow

I keep telling people that the Heeters are basically a Mafia. Elec seems like the type to sacrifice his henchman it brothers for money or intel. Hell, even Granolah was one of his goons technically.

It's so obvious that 0G-73 will play a role still. He wouldn't be healing nor would he be given so much exposition in the first chapter, if it wasnt important.

We were introduced to the space pirates, led by Goichi. They wanted to use 73 to rule the universe. Which is parallel to what the Heeters want.

The Heeters want an army, and specifically the Frieza army. Problem is, the Frieza army lacks fighting power. The Saiyans, Ginyu Force and others are all gone.
If one of the Zuno question was about 73 or a army.
I imagine Elec already knows how to make or find the 0G-73 army with possibly Moros and Merus power. That, coupled with a power wish amp for Gas, and then copied to 73, could be like a Merged Zamasu's army problem

Old school mafias actually put family above everything. Elec strikes me as someone very loyal to his siblings.

I think the Seven-Three thing was just a way of making one saga flow into another organically. Also wasn't Seven-Three how they the Heeters found out Zuno's location? If he had any role besides the initial chapter, that was it.

[Xeogran]

I believe that Elec will just re-find the DBs again because he has the Dragon Radar.
He made his promised wish to Gas, but he will probably want another one for himself now

[jd55513]

Spoiler:

I think it was pretty obvious all the way that the wish would be to make Gas stronger. Not sure how some people thought it was about Bardock someohow

I keep telling people that the Heeters are basically a Mafia. Elec seems like the type to sacrifice his henchman it brothers for money or intel. Hell, even Granolah was one of his goons technically.

It's so obvious that 0G-73 will play a role still. He wouldn't be healing nor would he be given so much exposition in the first chapter, if it wasnt important.

We were introduced to the space pirates, led by Goichi. They wanted to use 73 to rule the universe. Which is parallel to what the Heeters want.

The Heeters want an army, and specifically the Frieza army. Problem is, the Frieza army lacks fighting power. The Saiyans, Ginyu Force and others are all gone.
If one of the Zuno question was about 73 or a army.
I imagine Elec already knows how to make or find the 0G-73 army with possibly Moros and Merus power. That, coupled with a power wish amp for Gas, and then copied to 73, could be like a Merged Zamasu's army problem

Old school mafias actually put family above everything. Elec strikes me as someone very loyal to his siblings.

I think the Seven-Three thing was just a way of making one saga flow into another organically. Also wasn't Seven-Three how they the Heeters found out Zuno's location? If he had any role besides the initial chapter, that was it.

I think it could be HUGE since we have seen that power isnt everything.

Gas vs Bardock. Gas was stronger, yet still lost.
Granolah vs UI Goku and UE Vegeta, Granolah was stronger but "lost".

Elec is smart, he knows that power isnt everything, you saw his face when Gas and Macki left to go fight, that was the face of "I have a plan of my own".

I totally think 0G-73 is still important, you wouldn't have him healing, if there was no further use.

I think we are gonna see a twist wish that is not the same as Granolah or Gas wish.
Hoping it's something knowledge based or centered around them wanting a army.

[goku the krump dancer]

Grown up Gas looks pretty cool and seeing as though he fights by conjuring weapons is different enough to feel fresh. This just might be one of Toyotaro's better fight sequences.

[ZodiacBeast]

Speculating about making a wish that's more "brains" than brawn...

Spoiler:

What if Elec wishes for the ability to control others? He could form his own army from whoever he chooses, and it would make it harder for Goku and co. to fight back.

[chitarra10]

Not gonna lie... I'm disappointed in that wish because...

Spoiler:

...it was a rather emotionally-charged, Frieza-like thing to do, which is kinda the opposite of what the Heeters have been like this entire time. Unless they're planning to hunt the Dragon Balls down and immediately make another wish, considering they were told that the Cerealian ones don't go inert after they're used, then they kinda wasted an opportunity to make it work out in their favor on the spot. They could've wished for Granolah, Monaito, Goku, and Vegeta to die, or disappear from existence or something like that and put an end to everything right then and there, and no one would ever be the wiser, but Elec used their ace in the hole to satisfy an emotional grudge for his little brother that could've been dealt with after they secured their victory. But now, they've left the door wide freaking open for them to be defeated. But of course, this is Dragon Ball, they're gonna get defeated, but still. It was dumb, dumb move on the part of someone who purports himself to be intelligent, clever, and business-savvy.

I really think this is gonna end up being a second-hand revenge match between Gas and Goku because of how Bardock defeated Gas back in the day, and Granolah is gonna ultimately be the one who defeats Elec because he deserves that justice, and Vegeta is probably gonna end up going Ultra Ego on Oil and Macki. We'll see if I'm right in a month from now, I suppose.

[chitarra10]

Speculating about making a wish that's more "brains" than brawn...

Spoiler:

What if Elec wishes for the ability to control others? He could form his own army from whoever he chooses, and it would make it harder for Goku and co. to fight back.

Yeah, now that would've been an auspicious wish. It just seemed very out-of-character for Elec to make such an emotionally-based decision when he's been presenting himself as the calm, cool, collected, level-headed business man who thinks about what's gonna happen in the future. They did say the Cerealian Dragon Balls don't go inert after they've been used, so they could've tracked them down again made that wish after the fact in order to deal with the emotional aspect of it.

[batistabus]

Not gonna lie... I'm disappointed in that wish because...

Spoiler:

...it was a rather emotionally-charged, Frieza-like thing to do, which is kinda the opposite of what the Heeters have been like this entire time. Unless they're planning to hunt the Dragon Balls down and immediately make another wish, considering they were told that the Cerealian ones don't go inert after they're used, then they kinda wasted an opportunity to make it work out in their favor on the spot. They could've wished for Granolah, Monaito, Goku, and Vegeta to die, or disappear from existence or something like that and put an end to everything right then and there, and no one would ever be the wiser, but Elec used their ace in the hole to satisfy an emotional grudge for his little brother that could've been dealt with after they secured their victory. But now, they've left the door wide freaking open for them to be defeated. But of course, this is Dragon Ball, they're gonna get defeated, but still. It was dumb, dumb move on the part of someone who purports himself to be intelligent, clever, and business-savvy.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Their short term goal is to stop Granolah. Goku and Vegeta were meant to do that, but since that didn't work out, this is a logical Plan B. There may very well be more wishes in store.

[Jinto]

Those DB are far too potent to not abuse, do you think they're gonna reveal a limited use rule ?

[Xeogran]

Those DB are far too potent to not abuse, do you think they're gonna reveal a limited use rule ?

This would be the best part to introduce the concept of Shadow Dragons. There would only be 2 because there's 2 balls this time, or maybe even just one final boss.
Toronbo could get angry that he's being abused by everyone for the same damned wish and make one for himself

I'd be surprised if nothing comes out of this, up until this point he was only sparedly used by "Heroes of War" for good wishes, now he's fallen into the hands of evil.

[batistabus]

Initial reactions:

Gas' reveal really works. The full page where Maki and Oil are showing him off ("ta-dah") is fantastic. I haven't liked Gas all that much, and something about his design never clicked for me, but I think he looks way cooler grown up (with the elongated coat, especially), and I think retrospectively he's more interesting if we're to view his actions up until now as those of a "child". Gas looks great in motion, particularly the movement of his hair.

Some may see Gas using the same wish as Granolah as uncreative, but the abuse of the DBs might be the point. It also fits with the momentary nature of being #1. I'll reserve judgement on this for now, but I would not just denounce this as "lazy writing" as some already have.

The cross-section of the ship was a stand-out panel for me. I love attention to detail like that.

Has Gas always been a conjurer? For some reason, my favorite weapon he summoned was the shield.

Monaito gives a perfectly reasonable justification for why he hasn't told Granolah about what happened.

Goku teasing Vegeta is a well-placed bit of levity.

Vegeta gives the senzu to Granola. I think this was a great move. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

[PurestEvil]

First, a few complaints:
-Why did we not see Bardock fight Gas? Surely it would have been interesting to see how a low class Saiyan beat someone who was stronger than him...
-Isn't this the SECOND time Toyotarou has tried to keep the villain's DB wish secret for narrative effect? Seems a bit dull to have it merely be the same wish Granolah made except applied to Gas, considering the buildup.
-I am not really feeling it with Gas as a character. He seems a bit too bland, to say the least. I hope we see some development in the future (like revisiting his fight with Bardock), but he's meh to me atm.

A few compliments:
-Gas's fighting style and technique is actually quite unique and cool. I especially found him hitting Goku with a mallet kind of comedic.
-Macki is wonderful here. It's refreshing to see a female villain in Dragon Ball, and I am glad she is treated [relatively] well. Oil is okay.
-Vegeta's moment with Granolah is fascinating. I didn't expect their relationship to mature in this fashion. Although, I was kinda thinking "that is SUCH a Vegeta thing" when reading it.
-The action, once again, is amazing. Toyotarou is on a STREAK this year.

So yeah...it's an alright chapter that, despite some weird narrative choices, overall met my expectations...kind of a weird feeling, really.

EDIT: I'm surprised there is so little frequency of "chapter opinions" posts in this board even after an hour since the release...

[Koitsukai]

I really liked this chapter, this arc is growing on me.
I pretty much agree with batistabus above me. Monaito warned Granny about his wish and Gas' wish serves to make that point. I'm suprised Elecc wished for that, I was convinced he was about to do a Bojack on his gang. I do wonder what did Toronbo ask in return for a power beyond Granola's, or does his race have that much potential??


I'm not too happy with Gas' Janemba-like abilities, mainly because that big hammer seems so silly, looks like something the Wile.E. Coyote might pull out. But love the grown up Gas, he is imposing and menacing. Freeza is fucked if they get off the planet. Funny also how he doesn't give a fuck about Bardock's son, he seemed much more of grudge-holder.

Vegeta acknowledging Granny has a better chance against Gas is also nice. Though, I think it's a bad move, I think Geets and Goku have a better chance considering they depend on techniques they can improve while Granny is mostly raw power and is not getting a zenkai either.

Also, surprised they didn't show Gas vs Bardock, I was expecting that fight but can't say I'm upset because we didn't get it. Maybe if Gas and Goku fight, there'll be some nod to that.

[TKA]

Man, people overreact every month.

The story itself presents the old man's decision as flawed. Characters are allowed to be flawed. Like I said last month and like batistabus said, he made what he felt was the best decision to keep them both safe, and it turns out that decision has caused pain for them both. That's called conflict; stories need them to work. That's also called being a person.

As for the chapter itself: meh. I've stopped caring about this.