Japanese vs English names

[Aim]

It’s not though, there’s no ‘bomb’ in Genki Dama, if anything it’d be Spirit Sphere, but I went with Genki Dama or Genki Sphere based on the fact it’s not just spirit energy but Genki.

Dama can refer to any kind of rounded object. In this case, a bomb. The attack functions as an explosive anyhow.

"Spirit Sphere" and the like may be more technically accurate, but "bomb" is still fairly accurate.

Apparently from Dao of Dragon Ball:

Dama (玉) is the character representing the connection between Heaven (一) and Earth (土). The single drop stroke on the bottom right of Dama implies “Heaven’s Essence [on] Earth.”

More commonly, Dama can mean ball, jade, pearl, or a round jewel-like object. In these cases it’s usually pronounced Tama.

Thus the Genki Dama (元気玉) is a “Ball of Origin Ki” comprised of the “Essence of Heaven and Earth.”

Idk is DoDB reliable?

[TheGreatness25]

This is why it's simplest to just call it "Genki Dama" and know what it means in theory rather than trying to translate it. Like nobody's translating Hadou-ken or Shoryu-ken. Sometimes we retain foreign words instead of translating them.

For example, we still use "tzar" or "czar" for Russian monarchy, despite the fact that we could theoretically adapt the word to "king," for example. Or we use "cinco de mayo" instead of adapting that into "May 5th" or whatever. Some things need their proper context. Anime has come a long way in that regard, even keeping the original Japanese themes. Now, anime dubs seem to serve as a way for non-Japanese speakers to watch an anime rather than trying to make it look American.

There was the old way: adapting names, score replacement, etc. And the new way: we all know it's Japanese and the dub is just there for a foreign audience to understand what they're watching while keeping the original context.

Dragon Ball's context is that it's a Japanese series. Names won't always adapt well. I'd rather keep it as "Genki Dama" like "Hadou-ken" than calling it "Spirit Sphere" or whatever like "Wave Motion Fist." To me, "Spirit Bomb" is totally out of the question at this point because my default, standard way to digest the series is in its original form, where there's no "Spirit Bomb," "Special Beam Cannon," or "Destructo Disk."

And call me an optimistic fool, but I bet if the last two decades of Dragon Ball never happened in the US and Funimation picked it up for the first time today, it would've been an incredibly faithful dub. All of these issues are relics from a relatively ancient and primitive way of dubbing anime that unfortunately got too much popularity and attention for its own good. But that popularity and attention didn't happen because of anything that the dub did, but by the story that it butchered in the first place. The story was strong enough to survive what was being done to it--go figure. But now because of it, the series will never shake the damage.

[Aim]

This is why it's simplest to just call it "Genki Dama" and know what it means in theory rather than trying to translate it. Like nobody's translating Hadou-ken or Shoryu-ken. Sometimes we retain foreign words instead of translating them.

For example, we still use "tzar" or "czar" for Russian monarchy, despite the fact that we could theoretically adapt the word to "king," for example. Or we use "cinco de mayo" instead of adapting that into "May 5th" or whatever. Some things need their proper context. Anime has come a long way in that regard, even keeping the original Japanese themes. Now, anime dubs seem to serve as a way for non-Japanese speakers to watch an anime rather than trying to make it look American.

There was the old way: adapting names, score replacement, etc. And the new way: we all know it's Japanese and the dub is just there for a foreign audience to understand what they're watching while keeping the original context.

Dragon Ball's context is that it's a Japanese series. Names won't always adapt well. I'd rather keep it as "Genki Dama" like "Hadou-ken" than calling it "Spirit Sphere" or whatever like "Wave Motion Fist." To me, "Spirit Bomb" is totally out of the question at this point because my default, standard way to digest the series is in its original form, where there's no "Spirit Bomb," "Special Beam Cannon," or "Destructo Disk."

And call me an optimistic fool, but I bet if the last two decades of Dragon Ball never happened in the US and Funimation picked it up for the first time today, it would've been an incredibly faithful dub. All of these issues are relics from a relatively ancient and primitive way of dubbing anime that unfortunately got too much popularity and attention for its own good. But that popularity and attention didn't happen because of anything that the dub did, but by the story that it butchered in the first place. The story was strong enough to survive what was being done to it--go figure. But now because of it, the series will never shake the damage.

I agree, it would be different today.

It doesn’t have to always be doom and gloom, we just have a legitimate problem with monopoly, Funimation is eating up other companies as it is.

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

I prefer the Japanese names. I really enjoy the Japanese version. I am also very into accuracy.

This is me. This is me down to a T.

I would say most users on Kanz are like this (including myself)

And apparently telling people that majority of them have been pronouncing names wrong gets you flamed on the r/dbz subreddit and people calling you elitist and snobby.

[Shintoki]

This is me. This is me down to a T.

I would say most users on Kanz are like this (including myself)

And apparently telling people that majority of them have been pronouncing names wrong gets you flamed on the r/dbz subreddit and people calling you elitist and snobby.

You are quite young so you may not have encountered it before but dubism is a real issue, and calling it out make people get butthurt about it and call you a ''sub elitist'. lol

[fleahop]

There is an air of superiority sometimes when discussing naming and dub vs sub, etc. Like how one person enjoys the series is almost offensive to some others. Let it be known I've definitely seen it go both ways though.

I have seen people embrace and even celebrate the blatant fallacies. To the point where it's almost like they're proud of being seen as wrong by others. It's interesting.

We take too much personally. Myself included. We attach our identities to this media sometimes and it becomes much more than just entertainment. Might be unhealthy. Hopefully we all are less critical of each other in the future.

Japanese is good

The many English flavors are different but obviously resonated with their audiences. It's how I got into DB so how could I fully turn my back on it?

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

It’s not though, there’s no ‘bomb’ in Genki Dama, if anything it’d be Spirit Sphere, but I went with Genki Dama or Genki Sphere based on the fact it’s not just spirit energy but Genki.

Dama can refer to any kind of rounded object. In this case, a bomb. The attack functions as an explosive anyhow.

"Spirit Sphere" and the like may be more technically accurate, but "bomb" is still fairly accurate.

Apparently from Dao of Dragon Ball:

Dama (玉) is the character representing the connection between Heaven (一) and Earth (土). The single drop stroke on the bottom right of Dama implies “Heaven’s Essence [on] Earth.”

More commonly, Dama can mean ball, jade, pearl, or a round jewel-like object. In these cases it’s usually pronounced Tama.

Thus the Genki Dama (元気玉) is a “Ball of Origin Ki” comprised of the “Essence of Heaven and Earth.”

Idk is DoDB reliable?

Derek REALLY has a thing for overanalyzing the series. It's certified nerd behavior!

[ZeroIsOurHero]

Derek REALLY has a thing for overanalyzing the series. It's certified nerd behavior!

Yeah, that quote about the hidden meaning of the word "Dama" seemed like a ridiculous amount of reaching. I mean, yes, the Japanese character for "ball" is combined from the characters meaning "heaven" and "Earth", but on the other hand the Japanese character for "ball" literally just means "ball". These sorts of hyper-detailed fan interpretations probably weren't intended by the original creators.

Overall, I fail to see what's wrong with translating the attack names. Yes, the Funi localizations weren't very faithful in most cases, but leaving in so many gratuitous Japanese terms just results in unnecessary confusion. My top priority with localization is to replicate how people experience the work in its native country: Japanese people look at "Makankosappo" and think "Okay, so he's firing a Demonic Special Beam Cannon", while non-Japanese speakers look at "Makankosappo" and think "What the hell is a Makankosappo?" I think an ideal localization would translate the meaning of the original attack names without being too awkward and literal. The same goes for other gratuitous Japanese terms: is there a reason why it needs to be "Kame-sennin" and "Tenkaichi Budokai", rather than "Turtle Hermit" and "World Martial Arts Tournament"?

[Aim]

Overall, I fail to see what's wrong with translating the attack names. Yes, the Funi localizations weren't very faithful in most cases, but leaving in so many gratuitous Japanese terms just results in unnecessary confusion. My top priority with localization is to replicate how people experience the work in its native country: Japanese people look at "Makankosappo" and think "Okay, so he's firing a Demonic Special Beam Cannon", while non-Japanese speakers look at "Makankosappo" and think "What the hell is a Makankosappo?" I think an ideal localization would translate the meaning of the original attack names without being too awkward and literal. The same goes for other gratuitous Japanese terms: is there a reason why it needs to be "Kame-sennin" and "Tenkaichi Budokai", rather than "Turtle Hermit" and "World Martial Arts Tournament"?

This is something I’ve been asking for while, so the a Japanese actually understand that it means “Demonic Light Death Cannon”? Weird.

In the case for Tenkaichi Budokai, if the Japanese literally read that as just a Tournament under the heavens then maybe that’s what it should be translated as.

As for Kame-sennin, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Turtle Hermit, but then there’s the strange thing of calling the Kame house the turtle house and what not. I’m sure most of what we are talking about can be done.

[Aim]

There is an air of superiority sometimes when discussing naming and dub vs sub, etc. Like how one person enjoys the series is almost offensive to some others. Let it be known I've definitely seen it go both ways though.

I have seen people embrace and even celebrate the blatant fallacies. To the point where it's almost like they're proud of being seen as wrong by others. It's interesting.

We take too much personally. Myself included. We attach our identities to this media sometimes and it becomes much more than just entertainment. Might be unhealthy. Hopefully we all are less critical of each other in the future.

Japanese is good

The many English flavors are different but obviously resonated with their audiences. It's how I got into DB so how could I fully turn my back on it?

I agree to an extent, but I don’t think I’d say I’m specifically attached to this series, I just don’t like things being unnecessarily changed and passed as “official”. There’s still so much confusion til this day on even some characters personalities because of the dub, it’s a slap in the face to the entire series to think taking away name puns and pronounciations (to an extent) is okay and then calling it “official”. Sabat said a couple years back they thought they could take more liberties with DBS as opposed to Kai, which they did.

[OmegaRockman]

I thought Blue Water adapting "Tenkaichi Budokai" as "The Number One Under the Sun Martial Arts Tournament" was an inspired choice. It gets the idea of the Japanese term across while using a common English phrase and avoiding those pesky religious references, making it a-okay for a TV dub! The only downside is that it's a bit of a mouthful. I still prefer using "Tenkaichi Budokai" myself, though "World Martial Arts Tournament" is perfectly fine in the Funi dub; it just loses that "Strongest Under the Heavens" embellishment.

[ZeroIsOurHero]

This is something I’ve been asking for while, so the a Japanese actually understand that it means “Demonic Light Death Cannon”? Weird.

I mean, that's what the kanji say, so I assume they understand what it means. It's a mouthful to be sure, but it's a comprehensible phrase in Japanese.

In the case for Tenkaichi Budokai, if the Japanese literally read that as just a Tournament under the heavens then maybe that’s what it should be translated as.

Yeah, I guess the Funi localization doesn't fully capture the "strongest in the heavens" aspect of the original name. I feel like the Blue Water name that was mentioned here is on the right track, but it's a bit stilted in my opinion. My personal pick would be "World's Finest Tournament": it's also based on a common English phrase, and it roughly matches the syllable count of the original.

As for Kame-sennin, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Turtle Hermit, but then there’s the strange thing of calling the Kame house the turtle house and what not. I’m sure most of what we are talking about can be done.

Well, I'd say Kame House can be left untranslated. It's literally written on his house in big bold letters, so it would be hard to work around. Every other Roshi-related thing can be translated, though: Kame-sennin as Turtle Hermit, Kame School as Turtle School, and Muten Roshi as Invincible Master.

[MyVisionity]

Tenka'ichi is a Japanese term meaning "the greatest" or "the best in the world". Those extra bits are not necessary.

Muten Roshi as Invincible Master.

Muten doesn't mean invincible, or anything else itself. It's comprised of the Kanji for "martial arts" and "heaven". It would probably be left as-is.

[ZeroIsOurHero]

Tenka'ichi is a Japanese term meaning "the greatest" or "the best in the world". Those extra bits are not necessary.

What do you mean, "those extra bits"? I'm literally just trying to create a good-sounding translation of "Tenkaichi", which I feel is perfectly accomplished by something like "World's Finest."

Muten doesn't mean invincible, or anything else itself. It's comprised of the Kanji for "martial arts" and "heaven". It would probably be left as-is.

"Muten" on it's own may not mean "invincible", but combined with "Roshi" it becomes the clear implication: "Muten Roshi" literally means "Martial arts heaven old master", and given that "Tenkaichi" also has "heaven" in it, there is a clear association between heaven and maximum strength. But since the literal translation sounds incredibly clunky, "Invincible Master" is a good substitute in my opinion. Either way, it's not supposed to be his actual name, and translating it as "Master Roshi" doesn't make much sense.

[MyVisionity]

Tenka'ichi is a Japanese term meaning "the greatest" or "the best in the world". Those extra bits are not necessary.

What do you mean, "those extra bits"? I'm literally just trying to create a good-sounding translation of "Tenkaichi", which I feel is perfectly accomplished by something like "World's Finest."

I wasn't just replying to your comment, but the previous comments in general. Regardless, by "extra bits" I am referring to phrases like "under the heavens" and the like, which while technically accurate, are unnecessary additions by ViZ and others. Tenkaichi as you alluded means "supreme" or "world's best" etc.

Either way, it's not supposed to be his actual name, and translating it as "Master Roshi" doesn't make much sense.

Muten is the closest thing to an "actual name" that he has. Everything else is a title or moniker of some sort. It may sound too uncommon to be a real name, but these are fantasy characters. Aside from that, it could also just as easily have been a name he acquired after becoming a martial artist, similar to something like Mutaito, because of his ability and reputation.

Rōshi, when appended to a name that way, indicates the person's status as a master or old sage. Something like "Master Muten" wouldn't be far off.