Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by Anonymous Friend » Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:19 pm

Aim wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:45 am
Anonymous Friend wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:03 pm
Aim wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:11 pm

If you take away the fans, Toei loses significant revenue.

Also, criminal is a really disgusting way of describing someone who took a character from a franchise and used it on some t shirts.
Still accurate, though. Nothing changes that. Not sure about the laws where he lives, but some places would have given him jail time.
Lots of places would have jailed Mike and some of us as well, doesn’t mean it’s right? What’s this appeal to authority some people have?
If people are going to go on and on able "fair use", then they need to also acknowledge how the law can be pointed in their direction as well.

"Doesn't make it right" applies to Fair Use too.
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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by Aim » Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:55 am

Jord wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:09 am
Aim wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:45 am
Anonymous Friend wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:03 pm

Still accurate, though. Nothing changes that. Not sure about the laws where he lives, but some places would have given him jail time.
Lots of places would have jailed Mike and some of us as well, doesn’t mean it’s right? What’s this appeal to authority some people have?
Yeah, I won't even reply to that whataboutism. This is not about others. It's about Mark.

Strictly looking at Mark I feel it's wrong to make money by bootlegging other people's creations. It doesn't' matter if that creation belongs to an individual or a corporation. It's wrong and just lazy. If you want to make money come up with your own stuff instead of just copying someone else's hard work and leech from their success.
It was a reply to the “other places would have done worse” comment. It wasn’t whataboutaism.

And about other peoples property, it literally doesn’t harm anyone? There’s people who do this all the time in Japan and make fan manga and sell it. Mark was targeted wrongfully regardless because they went after videos, not merch.

And I’m sorry, he hasn’t leeched off of anyones hard work or success, a lot of fucking hard work went into some of those art pieces he made, such as the Kakarrot video game cover redesign.

You know what else is fucked? The people who made those drawings on the shows we watch get paid jack shit and I don’t see you complaining. This is just another example of loaded language on your part with little to no nuance applied to a situation. What a stupid ass thing to say, “it’s just lazy”. You’re seriously out of it if you think that’s lazy just because he made art of something and sold it. If it was shitty art taken from video games or other merch I’d agree, but he drew it himself for the case of Kakarrot and others at least. It wasn’t lazy at all. I think you need to rethink your definition of lazy.

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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by Jord » Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:48 am

Aim wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:55 am And about other peoples property, it literally doesn’t harm anyone? There’s people who do this all the time in Japan and make fan manga and sell it. Mark was targeted wrongfully regardless because they went after videos, not merch.
Another whataboutism. Again, I'm talking about the case with bootleg Mark here, not about other people. Other people's actions don't justify Mark's behaviour. Bootlegging harms the IP owner. That's why it's a criminal act. I can see why they went after him when they discovered his bootleg business. That's crossing the line beyond fair use.
And I’m sorry, he hasn’t leeched off of anyones hard work or success, a lot of fucking hard work went into some of those art pieces he made, such as the Kakarrot video game cover redesign.
I did not say he didn't work hard. I did say he is a leech. He used other people's IP in order to elevate himself. His channel would be nothing without relying and leeching on TOEI IP, ultimately leading to his criminal bootleg business.
You know what else is fucked? The people who made those drawings on the shows we watch get paid jack shit and I don’t see you complaining.
Another whataboutism. We're not talking about animators in this topic so it's only natural that I don't complain about their working conditions. For the record, I do think their working conditions are pretty dire, but I'd like to stay on topic.
This is just another example of loaded language on your part with little to no nuance applied to a situation. What a stupid ass thing to say, “it’s just lazy”. You’re seriously out of it if you think that’s lazy just because he made art of something and sold it. If it was shitty art taken from video games or other merch I’d agree, but he drew it himself for the case of Kakarrot and others at least. It wasn’t lazy at all. I think you need to rethink your definition of lazy.
It's lazy to just use someone else's character and make money out if it instead of using your own creativity and creating your own character.
I'm not saying there's no effort involved. His bootlegs do not look bad at all and I'm sure he spend a lot of time working on them but again, using someone else's character is a lazy choice. " Gee, I can't think of something myself. Guess I'll just use someone else's hard work and make money out of it."

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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by Aim » Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:04 am

Jord wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:48 am
Aim wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:55 am And about other peoples property, it literally doesn’t harm anyone? There’s people who do this all the time in Japan and make fan manga and sell it. Mark was targeted wrongfully regardless because they went after videos, not merch.
Another whataboutism. Again, I'm talking about the case with bootleg Mark here, not about other people. Other people's actions don't justify Mark's behaviour. Bootlegging harms the IP owner. That's why it's a criminal act. I can see why they went after him when they discovered his bootleg business. That's crossing the line beyond fair use.
No, but it doesn’t make him a criminal. We all know the implications when you use such a loaded term such as that. Once again, Toei isn’t harmed by Mark at all, do you understand how much it would take to harm something as big as Toei?
Jord wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:48 am
And I’m sorry, he hasn’t leeched off of anyones hard work or success, a lot of fucking hard work went into some of those art pieces he made, such as the Kakarrot video game cover redesign.
I did not say he didn't work hard. I did say he is a leech. He used other people's IP in order to elevate himself. His channel would be nothing without relying and leeching on TOEI IP, ultimately leading to his criminal bootleg business.
He’s barely leeching. If anything it is a very symbiotic relationship. At this point you may as well say that people that earn money off of writing video essays on movies are leeching off another’s work.
Jord wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:48 am
You know what else is fucked? The people who made those drawings on the shows we watch get paid jack shit and I don’t see you complaining.
Another whataboutism. We're not talking about animators in this topic so it's only natural that I don't complain about their working conditions. For the record, I do think their working conditions are pretty dire, but I'd like to stay on topic.
It’s not whataboutism when it relates to the topic at hand, when you use words make sure you use them properly. Toei is leeching off of others work as well, which does far more harm than Mark could ever do. Mark has taken a character and redrawn it in unique poses and in his unique art form, there’s nothing criminal or harmful about that. If anything it makes Toei’s products look better.

Point is, if we are talking about leeching, everyone does it in your books then, the word basically has no meaning at this point. Only difference is Mark’s leeching is productive and not harmful to Toei. I’d argue since Toei’s leeching is harmful, there’s no reason to care who leeches off of them.
Jord wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:48 am
This is just another example of loaded language on your part with little to no nuance applied to a situation. What a stupid ass thing to say, “it’s just lazy”. You’re seriously out of it if you think that’s lazy just because he made art of something and sold it. If it was shitty art taken from video games or other merch I’d agree, but he drew it himself for the case of Kakarrot and others at least. It wasn’t lazy at all. I think you need to rethink your definition of lazy.
It's lazy to just use someone else's character and make money out if it instead of using your own creativity and creating your own character.
He’s used a character that is loved, put it in a different style and did it himself, just because he didn’t make the character doesn’t mean it’s lazy. There are tons of people who just slap a generic Son Goku sticker from the games on T-shirts and call it a day. There’s barely anything lazy about what Mark has done. People like you won’t stop here with that, soon anything with spiky hair will be lazy even if people like Mark went original. There’s always inspiration somewhere. Only difference is Mark didn’t create the character, but he created a damn hell good atmospheric drawing around them though, which is far more creative than what Toei has ever put out.
Jord wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:48 am I'm not saying there's no effort involved. His bootlegs do not look bad at all and I'm sure he spend a lot of time working on them but again, using someone else's character is a lazy choice.
Don’t walk back, you just said what he is doing is lazy, you called him a criminal even. You sound like such a boot licker.
Jord wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:48 am. " Gee, I can't think of something myself. Guess I'll just use someone else's hard work and make money out of it."
It’s clear to anyone that has watched Mark’s videos he is extremely passionate about Dragon Ball, his decision to make money off of it most likely came from him wanting to make some profit off of something he enjoys talking about and drawing, regardless of whether he came up with the original idea or not. So is anyone that makes art for Toei are they now leeching? Or is it different because Toei dictates how much they are paid and reaps the profit for absolutely nothing they did?

I’m trying to look for any argument to how Mark is a leech but all I’m seeing is a very narrow view on IP and who can do what with what.

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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by Jord » Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:11 pm

Aim wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:55 am No, but it doesn’t make him a criminal. We all know the implications when you use such a loaded term such as that. Once again, Toei isn’t harmed by Mark at all, do you understand how much it would take to harm something as big as Toei?
He breaks the law by making money by producing clothing with characters he doesn't have the legal rights to.
It doesn't matter if the copyright belongs to a large company like TOEI or a small independent artist. The law is the law.
Also the amount in which he harms said copyright owner doesn't change legality of his actions.
He’s barely leeching. If anything it is a very symbiotic relationship. At this point you may as well say that people that earn money off of writing video essays on movies are leeching off another’s work.
No he's leeching. Without using other people's copyrighted content, he wouldn't have much of a channel and wouldn't be able to sell his bootleg shirts.
It’s not whataboutism when it relates to the topic at hand, when you use words make sure you use them properly. Toei is leeching off of others work as well, which does far more harm than Mark could ever do. Mark has taken a character and redrawn it in unique poses and in his unique art form, there’s nothing criminal or harmful about that. If anything it makes Toei’s products look better.
It actually is, since you try to divert the topic to TOEI and how they employ their animators instead of talking about how Mark bites the hands that feeds him. I'm not talking about TOEI and the relationship with their animators. I'm talking about Toei's relationship to Bootleg Mark. Mark who takes existing characters and illegibly makes money out of it. He doesn't "improve" TOEI's products since he only uses it to make money for himself.
Point is, if we are talking about leeching, everyone does it in your books then, the word basically has no meaning at this point. Only difference is Mark’s leeching is productive and not harmful to Toei. I’d argue since Toei’s leeching is harmful, there’s no reason to care who leeches off of them.
Again. What TOEI does to their employees doesn't matter. If you don't like a company, that's fine. That's no excuse to break the law.
What a stupid ass thing to say, “it’s just lazy”. You’re seriously out of it if you think that’s lazy just because he made art of something and sold it. If it was shitty art taken from video games or other merch I’d agree, but he drew it himself for the case of Kakarrot and others at least. It wasn’t lazy at all. I think you need to rethink your definition of lazy.
Please read my posts again. His drawings aren't bad and take time to create but taking other people's characters and simply profit from it is lazy from a conceptual standpoint.

He’s used a character that is loved, put it in a different style and did it himself, just because he didn’t make the character doesn’t mean it’s lazy. There are tons of people who just slap a generic Son Goku sticker from the games on T-shirts and call it a day. There’s barely anything lazy about what Mark has done. People like you won’t stop here with that, soon anything with spiky hair will be lazy even if people like Mark went original. There’s always inspiration somewhere. Only difference is Mark didn’t create the character, but he created a damn hell good atmospheric drawing around them though, which is far more creative than what Toei has ever put out.
Another whataboutism. Gee. If other people break the law with less effort it doesn't make it right for Mark to do it. And the TOEI bashing doesn't help your case.
Don’t walk back, you just said what he is doing is lazy, you called him a criminal even. You sound like such a boot licker.
Uhm whose boot am I supposed to be licking here? I am not walking back.Again, I said that the drawings take time and effort. Using copyrighted characters is lazy from a conceptual standpoint. The character is loved and established which makes selling your illegal bootlegs way easier.
It’s clear to anyone that has watched Mark’s videos he is extremely passionate about Dragon Ball, his decision to make money off of it most likely came from him wanting to make some profit off of something he enjoys talking about and drawing, regardless of whether he came up with the original idea or not. So is anyone that makes art for Toei are they now leeching? Or is it different because Toei dictates how much they are paid and reaps the profit for absolutely nothing they did?
The difference is that he doesn't make art for Toei. He takes Toei's characters and make art for himself and profits from it illegally.
And once again, the relationship between Toei and the animators doesn't matter.

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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by ChronoTwigger » Sat Feb 26, 2022 6:09 pm

Hello. I face copyright stuff everyday for my job.
First concept: there's no way to be smarter than them. Forget to cheat them like you can do with your mum. "I can do this, if I tell them is that...". Do you think so much generations of lawyers can be cheated by the first kid on YouTube?

Second concept: YouTube is just a service. Right owners can go to YT and prove such material belong to them. YT just close the content to avid being pursued and leave the owners to pursue you or not. Most of times companies don't pursue as you're poor and you don't have enough money to milk out, not 'cause you can do it.
Music credits holders go to YT in advance and claim rights on the tracks, so the content is locked in advance without checking the f**** whole Internet every second.
Is not that YT don't have balls to stand the companies: is 'cause YT is not your father or friend, is just a service. Why should fight laws for you?

Third concept: Fair Use is just an american law. Please notice it once and for all - spread the word. YT quote it as much users are USA people, but if Dragon Ball is Japanese, any claim of 'Fair Use' is nonsense.Go read the copyright part of YT terms.

Fourth concept: go check japanese copy laws, and go check the distribution terms from where you stolen the material. They can change, they can differ, and they can vary for national products and out of borders stuff (if I do remember well, Japan do some difference about).

Fifth concept: even if X get pursued, it doesn't matter you will be. The inverse is true.Claiming rights is not about a God coming down from the skies - is an act by people that can evaluate each time if that's convenient or not.

Sixth concept: I draw Goku and slap it on a Tshirt that I sell. TOEI can easily open an highway in my tiny a**, as it's obvious that the product sell on top of a recognizable brand and just for that - that's *exactly* the first example we use as copyright infringement XD.

Such basic concepts should be enough to have a first measure about "what you can do" (you can do whatever) and "what can happen" (they'll probably kill your content if you don't study what your rights are and what's their ones).
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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by dva_raza » Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:28 pm

Aim wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:04 am Once again, Toei isn’t harmed by Mark at all, do you understand how much it would take to harm something as big as Toei?
Just to note, various other Japanese companies like Kadokawa and Shopro have been doing this with many other Anitubers in the latest years. It's not about the youtuber representing a significant loss, my guess it's that it's just about control, drawing a line and not letting it become bigger than it already is with so many anime Youtubers and other things.

For example years ago there was an event being planned, out of fans petitions in a few states in Mexico to exhibit the latest episode of Super in public plazas. Toei found out about this and made a statement, which the governor here read, saying they didn't authorize this exhibit as it would compromise the work of thousands of people. An agreement was later made about not selling anything at this event, and so it ended up happening. But yeah it was kinda ridicuous. They are just really uptight

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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:07 pm

Have any of you actually seen Dragon Ball GB before?
So, you decided to read my signature, eh?

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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by Aim » Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:53 am

dva_raza wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:28 pm
Aim wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:04 am Once again, Toei isn’t harmed by Mark at all, do you understand how much it would take to harm something as big as Toei?
Just to note, various other Japanese companies like Kadokawa and Shopro have been doing this with many other Anitubers in the latest years. It's not about the youtuber representing a significant loss, my guess it's that it's just about control, drawing a line and not letting it become bigger than it already is with so many anime Youtubers and other things.

For example years ago there was an event being planned, out of fans petitions in a few states in Mexico to exhibit the latest episode of Super in public plazas. Toei found out about this and made a statement, which the governor here read, saying they didn't authorize this exhibit as it would compromise the work of thousands of people. An agreement was later made about not selling anything at this event, and so it ended up happening. But yeah it was kinda ridicuous. They are just really uptight
Ah yeah I heard about that. I honestly don’t care. Toei is garbage and has a bad attitude. This seems it’s something intrinsic to Japanese culture, so I guess all we can do is keep releasing the broadcast audio and fans remastering the series properly with colour correcting and what not. We should be promoting the idea of showing media to large crowds who love it, as long as it’s not causing harm. Not like the animators wages are getting higher anyhow.

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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by KentMan » Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:04 pm

Aim wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:53 am
dva_raza wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:28 pm
Aim wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:04 am Once again, Toei isn’t harmed by Mark at all, do you understand how much it would take to harm something as big as Toei?
Just to note, various other Japanese companies like Kadokawa and Shopro have been doing this with many other Anitubers in the latest years. It's not about the youtuber representing a significant loss, my guess it's that it's just about control, drawing a line and not letting it become bigger than it already is with so many anime Youtubers and other things.

For example years ago there was an event being planned, out of fans petitions in a few states in Mexico to exhibit the latest episode of Super in public plazas. Toei found out about this and made a statement, which the governor here read, saying they didn't authorize this exhibit as it would compromise the work of thousands of people. An agreement was later made about not selling anything at this event, and so it ended up happening. But yeah it was kinda ridicuous. They are just really uptight
Ah yeah I heard about that. I honestly don’t care. Toei is garbage and has a bad attitude. This seems it’s something intrinsic to Japanese culture, so I guess all we can do is keep releasing the broadcast audio and fans remastering the series properly with colour correcting and what not. We should be promoting the idea of showing media to large crowds who love it, as long as it’s not causing harm. Not like the animators wages are getting higher anyhow.
It can cause serious harm more than anyone will realize

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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by Aim » Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:05 am

KentMan wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:04 pm
Aim wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:53 am
dva_raza wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:28 pm

Just to note, various other Japanese companies like Kadokawa and Shopro have been doing this with many other Anitubers in the latest years. It's not about the youtuber representing a significant loss, my guess it's that it's just about control, drawing a line and not letting it become bigger than it already is with so many anime Youtubers and other things.

For example years ago there was an event being planned, out of fans petitions in a few states in Mexico to exhibit the latest episode of Super in public plazas. Toei found out about this and made a statement, which the governor here read, saying they didn't authorize this exhibit as it would compromise the work of thousands of people. An agreement was later made about not selling anything at this event, and so it ended up happening. But yeah it was kinda ridicuous. They are just really uptight
Ah yeah I heard about that. I honestly don’t care. Toei is garbage and has a bad attitude. This seems it’s something intrinsic to Japanese culture, so I guess all we can do is keep releasing the broadcast audio and fans remastering the series properly with colour correcting and what not. We should be promoting the idea of showing media to large crowds who love it, as long as it’s not causing harm. Not like the animators wages are getting higher anyhow.
It can cause serious harm more than anyone will realize
Can you, like, back this up instead of just making the comment? Saves me having to comment asking for clarification then wondering about it.

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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by KentMan » Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:37 am

FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:42 pm Let's begin with our first topic. Copyright law! So as you all may or may not know, I have two of my own Dragon Ball fan series known as Dragon Ball GB and Super Dragon Ball GB. These are mostly made via Gacha Club, but that's not all. The openings and endings use footage from the Tournament of Power, Dragon Ball Super: Broly, and Dragon Ball GT.
Yeah there’s the first problem right here

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Re: Copyright Law and Dragon Ball GB

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:34 am

KentMan wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:37 am
FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:42 pm Let's begin with our first topic. Copyright law! So as you all may or may not know, I have two of my own Dragon Ball fan series known as Dragon Ball GB and Super Dragon Ball GB. These are mostly made via Gacha Club, but that's not all. The openings and endings use footage from the Tournament of Power, Dragon Ball Super: Broly, and Dragon Ball GT.
Yeah there’s the first problem right here
Should've known
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