Nozawa and the nuances of acting being lost on the new generation of Seiyuu

[Aim]

Nozawa has made the comment that lately the new crop of Japanese Voice Actors arent really trained or inspired by naturalistic methods of acting but rather imitate Anime acting, creating an imitation of an imitation.

How do you feel about this?

Can you link the article I can’t find it

[Aim]

Wait this was ages ago

[Cure Dragon 255]

You shouldnt triple post its against the rules.

[dva_raza]

Nozawa has made the comment that lately the new crop of Japanese Voice Actors arent really trained or inspired by naturalistic methods of acting but rather imitate Anime acting, creating an imitation of an imitation.

How do you feel about this?

To be frank I have never found Japanese dubbing “natural”. I don’t even find the vocal delivery in live action Japanese films that I’ve seen to be naturalistic either. Therefore regarding their most recent acting I have not felt a difference.
Still what she says is probably true because apparently their voice acting for anime began a system in the latest years of finding attractive and young newbies. With intention of creating a captivating product for the fans which is then sold easier for events and shows. All that gives the impression that there’s high chance many of them just don’t have enough preparation as VAs, also the increase of platforms makes for a more pressured way of working making new young actors lean on the more mechanical aspect of dubbing and neglect the acting itself cause everything needs to be done quick and immitation in dubbing is actually used as a “safe” way for not fucking up

[ZeroIsOurHero]

To be frank I have never found Japanese dubbing “natural”. I don’t even find the vocal delivery in live action Japanese films that I’ve seen to be naturalistic either. Therefore regarding their most recent acting I have not felt a difference.

Yeah, I was thinking that too. I've noticed Asian acting approaches in general tend to be highly theatrical. Not like there's anything wrong with that, it makes sense given that their acting tradition started with highly stylized kabuki and wuxia plays. But still, the implication that the acting in J-dramas and retro anime is "naturalistic" feels like a joke to me.

You raise a good point about the rise of "celebrity VAs", though. That has been a major contributor to anime voice acting feeling increasingly flat nowadays: Just like with the idol industry, VAs are being selected based on marketability, not actual skill. Because of that, modern VAs tend to fall back on well-established anime stereotypes to guide their performances, leading to that "imitation of an imitation" feeling Nozawa was complaining about.

[Adamant]

Japanese live action/anime acting is much closer to theatrical acting than American live action/cartoon acting is, it's just a different approach. And none of these forms of acting are trying to come across as realistic and natural, that's not the point. Acting that sounds like actual real life conversations is only really found in media that specifically goes for that as a gimmick or selling point.

[JulieYBM]

I think naturalism in acting is pretty boring. I don't even find the acting in, say, Hollywood films particularly naturalistic, either. Talking to people all day is my job and I've come to find that actors always do a very planned out and refined delivery for their acting so that the dialogue can be understood clearly. I don't think that that is a bad idea, either, but it can be quite boring with the way a lot of mainstream Hollywood productions do it.

Gimme more Super Sentai, Kamen Rider and Twin Peaks acting!

[Adamant]

Ok, so regarding this "natural/naturalism" thing you're all going on about... Nozawa didn't say anime acting "sounds natural", she said the advice she gave to juniors that asked her for advice on how to become better actors was to observe how real people talk. To take inspiration from real life and do your own thing instead of just copying what you see other actors do in other anime and become an imitation of them.

That's good advice when it comes to acting no matter what field we're talking about.

[NickLord]

I feel like she doesn't care if she's divisive so I don't care to listen to her opinion on the subject.

You shouldn't care whether or not your opinions hurt people's feelings, especially if said opinion is a fact.

[NickLord]

Masako Nozawa isn't the only who said this. Norio Wakamoto, Toru Furuya, Kotono Mitsuishi, Akira Kamiya and several Anime directors have made similar comments over the years since 2010.

[NickLord]

Japanese live action/anime acting is much closer to theatrical acting than American live action/cartoon acting is, it's just a different approach. And none of these forms of acting are trying to come across as realistic and natural, that's not the point. Acting that sounds like actual real life conversations is only really found in media that specifically goes for that as a gimmick or selling point.

Isn't naturalism/realism the entire point of Method Acting (Marlon Brando, Daniel Day Lewis, etc)?

[NickLord]

I think naturalism in acting is pretty boring. I don't even find the acting in, say, Hollywood films particularly naturalistic, either. Talking to people all day is my job and I've come to find that actors always do a very planned out and refined delivery for their acting so that the dialogue can be understood clearly. I don't think that that is a bad idea, either, but it can be quite boring with the way a lot of mainstream Hollywood productions do it.

Gimme more Super Sentai, Kamen Rider and Twin Peaks acting!

Most acting in Toku shows tends to be really bad (with exceptions), not because its "unrealistic" but because it tends to come off as obviously forced and inorganic as well as the actors often straight up lacking any talent for acting (which is why most of them struggle to get any roles outside of Toku).

[JulieYBM]

I think naturalism in acting is pretty boring. I don't even find the acting in, say, Hollywood films particularly naturalistic, either. Talking to people all day is my job and I've come to find that actors always do a very planned out and refined delivery for their acting so that the dialogue can be understood clearly. I don't think that that is a bad idea, either, but it can be quite boring with the way a lot of mainstream Hollywood productions do it.

Gimme more Super Sentai, Kamen Rider and Twin Peaks acting!

Most acting in Toku shows tends to be really bad (with exceptions), not because its "unrealistic" but because it tends to come off as obviously forced and inorganic as well as the actors often straight up lacking any talent for acting (which is why most of them struggle to get any roles outside of Toku).

Yeah, it's absolutely goofy and it totally works to create something entertaining. I think those are actin choices worth considering the worth of.

Also, the works of Nic Cage, baby!

[Adamant]

Most acting in Toku shows tends to be really bad (with exceptions), not because its "unrealistic" but because it tends to come off as obviously forced and inorganic as well as the actors often straight up lacking any talent for acting (which is why most of them struggle to get any roles outside of Toku).

It's also a bit of a dead end BECAUSE having the only thing on your resume be "one of those things known for having really bad acting" is somewhat of a repellant for casting directors. People that want to get into acting as a career try to avoid toku because they don't want it on their resume.

[NickLord]

Most acting in Toku shows tends to be really bad (with exceptions), not because its "unrealistic" but because it tends to come off as obviously forced and inorganic as well as the actors often straight up lacking any talent for acting (which is why most of them struggle to get any roles outside of Toku).

It's also a bit of a dead end BECAUSE having the only thing on your resume be "one of those things known for having really bad acting" is somewhat of a repellant for casting directors. People that want to get into acting as a career try to avoid toku because they don't want it on their resume.

This also explains why most American actors that were on Power Rangers struggle to have any success in acting afterwards, with only a few exceptions such as Johnny Yong Bosch, Keith Robinson, Ludi Lin, and a small handful of others.

[MasenkoHA]

This also explains why most American actors that were on Power Rangers struggle to have any success in acting afterwards, with only a few exceptions such as Johnny Yong Bosch, Keith Robinson, Ludi Lin, and a small handful of others.

I don’t know who Keith Robinson is but Bosch is primarily an anime dub actor. This is not a slight against dubbing or voice actors but being a voice actor isn’t exactly the same thing as being an on screen actor. Dubbing studios aren’t going to dismiss him because he was in a dopey kid show back in the 90s. Shit, most Power Ranger villains and monsters of the day are pretty prolific anime voice actors.

Ludi Lin was in the 2017 film which was a blockbuster nostalgia cash grab that pulled in high profile actors like Elizabeth Banks and Bryan Crantson. And like most of the Rangers were already up and coming actors. If being in the movie was going to be a career killer it was because it underperformed at the worldwide box office not because it was based on a kids advertainment show

Gimme more Super Sentai, Kamen Rider and Twin Peaks acting!

Reminding me I need to rewatch Twin Peaks

[ABED]

There are some shows and movies that are very naturalistic. The Wire being one of them. Good acting is subjective and you can't put it in a box of either "it's about naturalism" or "there's no such thing as naturalism so all bets are off". It all feels contextual. What's the story going for and how does the performance fit into it.

I don't think any actor's career has been hampered by being on a tokusatsu show, not to any significant extent. If they were good actors and got better and stuck with it (making a living as an actor is tough and takes time. It revolves a ton of rejection that many actors hate), they usually obtained some success afterwards. Amy Jo Johnson has worked steadily since leaving in the 90s because she's good at what she does.

[JulieYBM]

This also explains why most American actors that were on Power Rangers struggle to have any success in acting afterwards, with only a few exceptions such as Johnny Yong Bosch, Keith Robinson, Ludi Lin, and a small handful of others.

I don’t know who Keith Robinson is but Bosch is primarily an anime dub actor. This is not a slight against dubbing or voice actors but being a voice actor isn’t exactly the same thing as being an on screen actor. Dubbing studios aren’t going to dismiss him because he was in a dopey kid show back in the 90s. Shit, most Power Ranger villains and monsters of the day are pretty prolific anime voice actors.

Ludi Lin was in the 2017 film which was a blockbuster nostalgia cash grab that pulled in high profile actors like Elizabeth Banks and Bryan Crantson. And like most of the Rangers were already up and coming actors. If being in the movie was going to be a career killer it was because it underperformed at the worldwide box office not because it was based on a kids advertainment show

Gimme more Super Sentai, Kamen Rider and Twin Peaks acting!

Reminding me I need to rewatch Twin Peaks

Honey, you GOTTA! You'll be laughing your ass off by the time the principal gets on the intercom in the pilot. The scenes with Sheryl Lee across the series and films are all so well acted, too.

[Adamant]

I don’t know who Keith Robinson is but Bosch is primarily an anime dub actor. This is not a slight against dubbing or voice actors but being a voice actor isn’t exactly the same thing as being an on screen actor. Dubbing studios aren’t going to dismiss him because he was in a dopey kid show back in the 90s. Shit, most Power Ranger villains and monsters of the day are pretty prolific anime voice actors.

Dubbing anime in America is even MORE absolute bottom barrel work than dopey Power Rangers-tier live action. Dubbing studios are not going to dismiss ANYONE for having been in some minimal-standard stuff when they have even worse standards themselves.

[MasenkoHA]

I don’t know who Keith Robinson is but Bosch is primarily an anime dub actor. This is not a slight against dubbing or voice actors but being a voice actor isn’t exactly the same thing as being an on screen actor. Dubbing studios aren’t going to dismiss him because he was in a dopey kid show back in the 90s. Shit, most Power Ranger villains and monsters of the day are pretty prolific anime voice actors.

Dubbing anime in America is even MORE absolute bottom barrel work than dopey Power Rangers-tier live action. Dubbing studios are not going to dismiss ANYONE for having been in some minimal-standard stuff when they have even worse standards themselves.

I’m not here to dismiss dubbing but yes being able to say you have experience in an on camera role even for low grade preschooler entertainment is a better resume builder when auditioning for a live action movie or show than saying you have experience as a voice actor. It’s why you pretty much never seen anime voice actors in live action roles and usually when they get on camera work its bit parts.