Tai Lung wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:45 pm
The problem is you're seeing everything as isolated things... when it's not like that... the time goku used the susanoo I didn't give importance to it because it was something all at once... but it adds up all the facts
susanoo + clones that disintegrate in smoke + fights with ninja weapons + red eyed avenger what would you think? you will not deny me that in naruto
I'm not manipulating anything .... it's what reflects everything together in this case the battle and no ... it doesn't matter if the character is not exactly the same .... all that felt more like a battle of naruto
sorry but the argument of "nothing in Dragon Ball is not consistent" does not help you ... and I would recommend you not to be so conformist
You make up the gas thing... because an attack made of energy is like that...
How was the story of trunks shown in the toriyama version? besides that toriyama never showed things that way...remember when shin explained kid buu's appearance
you can have your own opinion of course
but that's the "you hate toyotaro" argument just to criticize what seems dumb to me
You are manipulating the evidence though because you keep on forcing these things to fit. Gas uses a myriad of weapons, and the ninja weapons are used less than the rest yet you homed in on that because it confirms your belief. Again, see begging the question. We've been through the clones so I fail to see why we need to keep brining that up. They are nothing like shadow clones, and even with one panel where there's a possibility they've poofed out of existence they still aren't remotely close in any other way. Granolah being a red eyed avenger does connect to Hunter x Hunter and Naruto in an entirely superficial way, but that's when we remove all nuance from all three series portrayals. So the red eyed avenger is owned by Togashis work then if we're only going to look at these things on the surface. Also whilst on the subject of "copying" Kishimoto borrowed Sasukes story from old Japanese tales. Same way that Toriyama did with Son wukong with Db and later some Superman similarities. Those are much more blatant that what you're trying to do here with Toyo where all you have are superficial similarities and nothing related through the story, and don't say a revenge story since that's far too broad. A lone survivor as with Granolah is super common too, but one place it can't be borrowed from is naruto since Sasuke isn't the only member left in his clan.
The ki avatar that Goku pulled out was a bit sus. It isn't established prior in Dragonball, and it has no reason to even be a thing, and is never explained. So yeah, that
could be inspired by narutos Susanoo/ bijuu chakra mode. That isn't a part of the Granolah arc though, and I would rather keep this conversation isolated there since I don't understand your argument still.. are you saying that the Granolah arc is partly copied from Naruto? Because everything you've mentioned is purely superficial and partly cherry picked to boot.
In regards to Gas' weapons it's not whether DB is consistent or not, but the fact that you're arguing about weapons that are clearly much more powerful than a regular sword, kunai, shield or whatever. Like it seems like your critique is entirely to do with the fact that they look like earthly weapons and thats all. The story clearly shows us they're much more. Gas weapons do have a new rulebook since this ability of Gas's seems to be new to the series. So I will look into what is shown by Gas weapons that separates them from regular weapons using deduction. We see Gas conjuring the weapons out of thin air and sometimes with an aura around them, we see the weapons fading from existence when Gas leaves them be on some occasions. An example is when the axe is by Gokus head when he is pinned on the ground. One thing of note is Gas makes them fade from existence when they no longer serve a purpose, such as in the scene where the axe by Gokus head fades away, we still see the fork that was keeping Granolah in place in the background. Another plain as day showing that these aren't ordinary weapons is the durability, examples being Goku using an absurd amount of effort to break Gas' hand blade when he can easily bend a gun and such in base, Gas shields can take physical blows off of the godly characters and be totally unharmed, and remain totally unfazed when facing barrages of Ki blasts. In Fact they're so durable that we see the same attacks harming Gas when they connect with his body, meaning that the durability of his shields is well beyond that of Gas himself since they are totally unfazed, and Gas feels the need to use his shields to block said attacks. The potency of the weapons clearly works in a similar way since Gas physical blows seem to fall behind his conjured weapons in terms of offensive potency. Our characters not being able to break through his shields, and his weapons being deadly clearly shows that these aren't your regular weapons and are greater in durability than planets (since casual attacks have been planetary in potency since Pure Buu) and if you want to complain about that.. well then I don't know anymore. You're so fixated on superficial aspects that there can not be a conversation to be had any longer if you refuse to bend since all evidence shows that these are similar to our earthly weapons in appearance only. Just use some deductive reasoning man, come on! It's only contradicting previous information if you choose to ignore almost everything we know about the series power scaling. You see, you're isolating the weapons from the series as a whole.
Toriyama may have done flashbacks differently, but Trunks backstory didn't need to have flashbacks like this arc since this arc has so many totally unfamiliar characters who play such integral roles in the story, who are connected to Granolah in multiple ways, who is a character we knew nothing about prior. You see how its one giant question mark. With the androids we know how Gokus actions led to such creations since we see him destroy the RR, and due to such actions machine's were made to kill him, but here we find out that the Granolahs history has a lot more to it than meets the eye. It's filled with twists unlike Trunks history. Also different authors can handle flashbacks differently, Toyo isn't Tori afterall but no matter what Kishimoto definitely doesn't own flashbacks, and it's idiotic to try and claim such.
Now do I think you blindly hate Toyos work? I kinda do, this arc has many flaws that actually can be critically evaluated, but you've resorted to such poor arguments that have very little to even do with the story. This story deserves much more respect than you're showing it (which is saying something because I haven't liked it). I do believe he will have drawn inspiration from modern Shonen series, but the way you're posing it is much more antagonistic than it needs to be. In almost any series we can claim that its a copy of another if we do what you have done here. That's the issue with cherry picking and manipulating evidence. Even now you continue to call Gas' ability just "ninja weapons" when ninja weapons are barely used by him when compared with his many others.
