Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 82 - Official Discussion Thread

[PurestEvil]

If this leads to Goku deciding to revive Gine & Bardock (alongside Raditz probably), I feel like we could get a Planet Sadala arc where they all visit it.

God help the fandom, if that ends up happening

[Grimlock]

It's nothing short of amazing that people still hang up to the idea so fervently of visiting Sadala only because Vegeta randomly had that idea one time in the anime continuity.

I would most certainly have forgotten about that by now, if it weren't for people still talking about it. I don't think it's going to happen, I doubt even Toei themselves remember that line. By the way, how old is that line? Five? Six years?

[mute_proxy]

So about Oatmeel.. where did he get the upgrade all of a sudden? Isn't it kinda suspicious.. He's becoming more and more independent.

He attached himself to a pre built robot, and used bluetooth probably.

[The Monkey King]

I would most certainly have forgotten about that by now, if it weren't for people still talking about it. I don't think it's going to happen, I doubt even Toei themselves remember that line. By the way, how old is that line? Five? Six years?

To be fair it took Super eight years to follow up on the line where Beerus says he ordered Freeza to destroy Planet Vegeta and have that play some role in the story.

[chitarra10]

• Elec will definitely be the final enemy of this arc I reckon, he might betray Gas and the others in some way.

Looking forward to the next chapter hopefully its as good as this one was.

Oh, I'm positive of that. And I think he already betrayed Gas with his wish that we never heard, and that he never once straight up admits to making. I think we're gonna find out that Elec's wish isn't exactly what he said it was gonna be, and while it technically got Gas a power-up, it was something for his own benefit at Gas's expense. And I think Gas is gonna find out and turn on him, especially after we just had Gas pledging his unconditional loyalty to him in this chapter. It's very clear by now that Elec is doing the same thing to Gas that Frieza did to Vegeta for the first 29 years of his life... mental and psychological abuse and torture, and a shit ton of gaslighting and manipulation to make him believe it's the way he's supposed to be treated... only a brainwashed person says, "I seek power for Elec's sake alone. I follow his commands in order to make the Heeters the supreme organization in the universe!!" And I really think the only one who's gonna die in this story is Elec, and it's most likely to be Granolah who kills him. That's what would be fair, after everything that happened since the beginning. I think whatever Elec's wish actually was is gonna be found out, which I think is something that will turn out to betray Gas, and it's gonna come back to bite him in the ass in the end.

[Peach]

If this leads to Goku deciding to revive Gine & Bardock (alongside Raditz probably), I feel like we could get a Planet Sadala arc where they all visit it.

At the end of that arc, maybe Bardock, Gine and Raditz decide to stay on Planet Sadala/in Universe 6. It would be a good way to bring back old characters and have fun character interactions (Gohan remeeting Raditz, Vegeta interacting with Raditz) but to also push them aside at the end kinda like they did with Future Trunks.

Who knows, maybe after the End of Z - Bardock & Gine have another kid (Goku gets another brother) and Raditz has a kid with a saiyan woman. (imagine if Raditz gets together with Caulifa )

Lol, i doubt that would happen

It would be nice if Goku remembered a memory of the both of them that we haven't seen on screen before. Like Gine and Bardock introducing Raditz to him.

[Peach]

• Elec will definitely be the final enemy of this arc I reckon, he might betray Gas and the others in some way.

Looking forward to the next chapter hopefully its as good as this one was.

Oh, I'm positive of that. And I think he already betrayed Gas with his wish that we never heard, and that he never once straight up admits to making. I think we're gonna find out that Elec's wish isn't exactly what he said it was gonna be, and while it technically got Gas a power-up, it was something for his own benefit at Gas's expense. And I think Gas is gonna find out and turn on him, especially after we just had Gas pledging his unconditional loyalty to him in this chapter. It's very clear by now that Elec is doing the same thing to Gas that Frieza did to Vegeta for the first 29 years of his life... mental and psychological abuse and torture, and a shit ton of gaslighting and manipulation to make him believe it's the way he's supposed to be treated... only a brainwashed person says, "I seek power for Elec's sake alone. I follow his commands in order to make the Heeters the supreme organization in the universe!!" And I really think the only one who's gonna die in this story is Elec, and it's most likely to be Granolah who kills him. That's what would be fair, after everything that happened since the beginning. I think whatever Elec's wish actually was is gonna be found out, which I think is something that will turn out to betray Gas, and it's gonna come back to bite him in the ass in the end.

Didn't the wish affect Granolah's lifespan? I imagine some kind of similar side effect happened with Gas, and Elec had just planned on having 7-3 copy him before he died.

[Grimlock]

To be fair it took Super eight years to follow up on the line where Beerus says he ordered Freeza to destroy Planet Vegeta and have that play some role in the story.

Does it have a follow up? I think I missed it then. It's something I pretend it didn't happen, anyway. Beerus should have nothing to do about Saiyans demise to begin with, that is a legit point to say "it's bad" (along with the rest of Movie 15).

It would be nice if Goku remembered a memory of the both of them that we haven't seen on screen before. Like Gine and Bardock introducing Raditz to him.

That would be great, but nonsensical.

By the time Goku is out of the incubator, Raditz was already a soldier and in another planet. The only thing we could see is what happens during that afternoon and that evening. In theory, all we would be able to see is Bardock stealing a pod as well as him and Gine taking Goku out of the incubator and putting him in the pod.

Unless Goku somehow also has memories of when he was in the incubator, but his eyes was always closed, so... It'd be a bit of a stretch. Also, Bardock wasn't present when Goku was born. So Bardock and Raditz both met Goku at different times.

[Lukmendes]

Does it have a follow up? I think I missed it then. It's something I pretend it didn't happen, anyway. Beerus should have nothing to do about Saiyans demise to begin with, that is a legit point to say "it's bad" (along with the rest of Movie 15).

It's not much of a follow up, Beerus told Vegeta he suggested to Freeza to destroy planet Vegeta, they had a fight over it, and that was used so Vegeta could learn better how to use destruction powers

[OLKv3]

Arc is called Granolah the survivor
Goku's memory is triggered by the words survive
Gas admired Bardock's fire to survive

Pretty sure UI mastery won't have to do with his saiyan nature, instead it'll be tied to Goku being a survivor

[emperior]

Arc is called Granolah the survivor
Goku's memory is triggered by the words survive
Gas admired Bardock's fire to survive

Pretty sure UI mastery won't have to do with his saiyan nature, instead it'll be tied to Goku being a survivor

That’s interesting. You may be onto something. One other trait of Goku which is not talked about enough is just how resilient he his during fights. Moreover, it was thanks to his incredible will to live that he survived from the ravine drop which left him memoryless as a child…

Maybe that’s what Gas was referring to when he praised Bardock’s fire. It may have been that incredible will to survive at all costs which enabled him to gain the upper hand on Gas. And now the trigger for Goku’s new Ultra Instinct may have been the “survive at all costs” line, said by Bardock of all people.

Will it be Survival Instinct? It sounds cool, in my opinion, and fits with Goku’s character very well.

It also answers Whis’ question: deep down, what are you? A survivor. First when he was sent to Earth as a child, and then when he almost died shortly thereafter. Not to mention all the other countless fights that he’s been through and survived.

If that’s so, I really want to see the scene in which Goku fell into the ravine. What happened the first period on Earth? Where did Gohan put his Saiyan armor, and why did he never mention that particular again? Also, will Goku remember Raditz clearly? Raditz was sure that Goku could have never forgotten him…

[PurestEvil]

Arc is called Granolah the survivor
Goku's memory is triggered by the words survive
Gas admired Bardock's fire to survive

Pretty sure UI mastery won't have to do with his saiyan nature, instead it'll be tied to Goku being a survivor

This is actually a really smart analysis/prediction. I really hope this is the direction the story is taking, because it could provide significant insight into Goku's character/history.
I wonder how this could be tied back to Granolah's character, though. Perhaps he will be inspired by Goku, as usual with antagonistic characters who meet him?

[Hugo Boss]

Will it be Survival Instinct? It sounds cool, in my opinion, and fits with Goku’s character very well.

It also answers Whis’ question: deep down, what are you? A survivor. First when he was sent to Earth as a child, and then when he almost died shortly thereafter. Not to mention all the other countless fights that he’s been through and survived.

Last chapter I made a comment about Goku’s conflict being very similar to Himura Kenshin when he was learning Amakakeru Ryū no Hirameki. I think this analysis is pretty spot on right now.

Goku’s will to live and compassion for others allows him to stand on the edge of life or death, strong, free, and unwavering of any doubt and turmoil that lies in his heart. This state of mind is the only condition that will allow Ultra Instinct to be executed flawlessly and guarantee his victory, as being out of this state only allows the user to execute lesser and flawed versions of the technique.

[Koitsukai]

Good analysis on these recent posts, finally something not cultural or saiya-related. That other chapter wasn't called Goku's Conflict because it was about Goku and the saiyan race, after all. It's an inner conflict, related to himself.

Aren't they all survivors? Vegeta as well, not only survived Vegeta-sei's demise, he survived Freeza for 30 years. Even the Heatas, in one way or another. Being there like parasites living off Freeza, and now that he's back they were kinda laying low. Elecc mentions staying outta trouble as the N°1 rule in business, they know how not to get killed.
Bardock was one too, sorta. A low class warrior conquering planets, yeah he is more of a conqueror than a survivor, but against the Heatas he is about to become a survivor. Kind of a stretch, though, I know.

Goku has no idea how or why he survived in the first place, I guess the thought his weakness was what saved him, what made his parents discard him. His relationship with his parents probably is the only place he never stepped into, the only place where he never belonged. Now it turns out that was never the case, he was actually welcomed. If that doesn't bring somebody peace of mind, I don't know what does.

Some flashbacks including Son Gohan would be welcomed, but I doubt it's necessary for this particular development.

[kemuri07]

I think this is leaning into some fun analysis that I don't think is intentional in the actual arc. I like the idea that Granollah, Vegeta, and Goku are all survivors in different ways as all three of these characters have managed to survive the annihilation of their people, and continue to persist despite the odds being stacked against them . But I don't think this is the level of storytelling that Toyo and Co are invested in.

[Kodoshin]

So about Oatmeel.. where did he get the upgrade all of a sudden? Isn't it kinda suspicious.. He's becoming more and more independent.

He attached himself to a pre built robot, and used bluetooth probably.

He was probably using a buffalo dongle from an old Nintendo DS.

[batistabus]

Some other thoughts on the chapter:

Goku visiting all of the Galactic Patrollers, aside from being a series of Easter Eggs, was a nice way to continue tying this in with the previous arc. He wouldn't have been able to pull this off without meeting all of these characters.

Gas pissing himself is a surprisingly important moment for his character. I liked Moro well enough, but he was completely humorless (outside of his battle with Boo). I've been invested in Gas since finding out he was just a child (until the wish), but this single joke helps him feel more in line with Toriyama's world, and further reinforces his relationship with Heata.

Raditz reference was great. Another instance of Goku's "why are you taking orders from that guy"?

Kind of a dick move for Goku to allow a hole to get blown in the Squid planet considering they gave him directions. Although it could've been worse, and he didn't have many options...

Cool to see Whis and Oracle Fish hanging out without Beerus. I have no problem with Whis pointing out the direction of Cereal since Goku interrupted his snack time. He hooked Goku up with a communication device, and the opportunity did buy Goku time, so Whis still managed to be helpful.

Oracle Fish is an idiot (which I like). I doubt Gas is the figure of the prophecy, but I don't think there's any value in reading too far into any particular thing she says.

Gas flying through space to reach Cereal is finally a DBS-level feat that feels like one on the page. Sure, we know Jiren is capable of something similar, but we didn't actually see it (and it might not have been as far/fast). The best example of a visual DBS-level feat is Beerus vs Champa from Chapter 6. Feats aren't nearly as important as plot or humor, but it's nice when things actually feel escalated compared to the original series.

Oatmeel's robotic body combined with Bardock's scouter feels like a classic Toriyama soft retcon, even though it's most likely that stuff was planned.

I think I'm more accepting of the Bardock stuff than some other fans. I'm fully open to it at this point. Bardock continues to look cool, and Goku's unlocked memory was handled extremely well. It makes the Minus stuff (and therefore the overriding of the original Bardock special) feel less pointless. I'm not sure what Goku will learn from Bardock, but I'm not especially worried about it.

Monaito said Gas had the ability to go berserk back then, but he's not wearing his "seal" (tooth necklace) on his forehead in the flashback. Maybe he will unlock the power during the fight (thanks to Elec?), or maybe he wears a different seal that isn't as obvious (maybe Oil can be the seal-maker...he desperately needs SOMETHING). My initial thought is that Bardock will rip off the horns to weaken Gas, but that seems less thematically relevant than what I'm expecting. I guess the "what" could be the horns and the "how" could be "the unbounded power of instinct".

Re: Goku the Survivor...sure! He's a survivor. That parallel matters, and I think it's intentional. I'm not sure if it's the key to Goku's personalized MnG, but it's still worth discussing.

[Grimlock]

It's not much of a follow up, Beerus told Vegeta he suggested to Freeza to destroy planet Vegeta, they had a fight over it, and that was used so Vegeta could learn better how to use destruction powers

I can barely understand the writing process here, but if it works, it's all that matters, right?

[Lukmendes]

I can barely understand the writing process here, but if it works, it's all that matters, right?

I think the reasoning given for Beerus to have mentioned that is that, the destruction powers need the person's mind to be focused on destruction, and before that, Vegeta was saying shit like it was the saiyans' fate to eventually be killed off for their brutality, which Beerus didn't like the answer, so I guess Beerus told Vegeta that to have Vegeta be focused on destruction in that moment.

So basically it was only used to advance Vegeta's training with Beerus, then isn't mentioned afterwards.

[Cipher]

I think this is leaning into some fun analysis that I don't think is intentional in the actual arc. I like the idea that Granollah, Vegeta, and Goku are all survivors in different ways as all three of these characters have managed to survive the annihilation of their people, and continue to persist despite the odds being stacked against them . But I don't think this is the level of storytelling that Toyo and Co are invested in.

I think that’s exactly the kind of storytelling Toyotaro’s been interested in. For all/any faults of the Super manga, thematic coherency has never been one of them—even/especially when working off of Toriyama outlines. See the repeated variations on “hope” in the Trunks arc, and the careful framing around different approaches to “true strength” and the team element in the ToP—such that characters continuously offer (ultimately incorrect/partial) answers regarding the former before the arc settles on the latter, making sure everyone has played a distinct role.

I’m looking for thematic throughlines in this arc because I fully expect them to intentionally be there.