Actually VERY FEW characters (mortals) from Universe 7 could get Granolah’s wish

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Kakarotto92
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Actually VERY FEW characters (mortals) from Universe 7 could get Granolah’s wish

Post by Kakarotto92 » Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:06 pm

It would be very unlikely for most of the characters in U7 to get Granolah’s wish (like 1% of them could get it). It's not like any character like Oolong, Yajirobe or Mr.Satan could be UI Goku level just by asking the Dragon.
You need the following:

1.Knowing about the existence of Planet Cereal's DBs. Neither Shenlong nor Porunga would be able to grant this wish, otherwise Toriyama and Toyotaro would just have Granolah travel to Namek or Earth, instead of creating a new set of DBs. It's likely that Granolah and Monaito are one of the very few people on planet Cereal, that know about the DBs. Outside the planet, not counting with Zuno and now the Heaters , no one seems to know about them either. Granolah actually lives with the creator of Cereal’s DBs, so of course he would be most likely to gather them rather than any one else.

2. Belonging to a species with a long lifespan. The only mortals with long lifespans that we know of in so are the Namekians, the Cerealians, Hit, maybe Freeza's family/race, the Heeters, and Moro. I wouldn't call Majin Boo a mortal, he's a magical being, a genie who's also kind of immortal and doesn't age (not to mention Toriyama's retconned origin story). Muten Roshi is an early DB character, humans/earthlings in DB are probably the same as real life humans, when it comes to that.

3. Belonging to a powerful species. Cerealians seem to be stronger than humans/earthlings, as shown by Granolah early in the arc before the wish and that cerealian warrior being able to destroy Cereal's moon. They may have lost to Raditz tier saiyans, but so did the namekians, yet they can be as powerful as Piccolo and Nail.

As for having the courage to do it: I'm sure there are quite a few avengers throughout the galaxy and U7 willing to do the sacrifice Granolah did, the problem is, only a few would have 1., 2. and 3.

So unless you’re one of the species I mentioned above, know about the existence of Cereal's DBs and are young, there's no way you'll get Granolah's wish (unless you gather the Super Dragon Balls I guess, which is even harder)

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Re: Actually VERY FEW characters (mortals) from Universe 7 could get Granolah’s wish

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:56 pm

I hope the origin of the Cerelian DBs, or something more, at least, about them will be addressed before the arc ends. Toronbo seems oddly invested in getting the wishes asked granted, instead of just saying no, he said "no, however... ". This makes me think that if you don't meet some of the criteria, he might point you in the right direction.

Anyway, you might be able to bypass the short lifespan issue by using the other DBs and extending your life. What if Garlic Jr. went to Cereal-sei and asked Toronbo for it? what if Zamasu went to Cereal-sei instead of swapping bodies with Goku? I wonder what would happen if Shin wishes to be the strongest.

I'm not sure about the cerealians being a particularly powerful species, aside of Granny, who could be an outlier. I think he got more out of the wish for having a long lifespan than plenty of potential, which wasn't enough in his case. Maybe in Gas' it was enough with his potential, we still don't know much about his wish.

Fun fact, 20 years ago or so, you didn't need to be stronger than UI Goku, have that much potential or a long lifespan, just enough to be stronger than Freeza. Who knows if Krilin could've gotten that far just by using his 50 years of life that he had left? after the power unlock he was pretty strong. Perhaps people like Zarbon or Ginyu could've gotten away with it.
After this arc, probably more will be needed to surpass Gas, and whoever surpasses him.

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Re: Actually VERY FEW characters (mortals) from Universe 7 could get Granolah’s wish

Post by Kakarotto92 » Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:32 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:56 pm Anyway, you might be able to bypass the short lifespan issue by using the other DBs and extending your life. .
People have said that, but I'm pretty sure the Dragons wouldnt allow it. The other Dragon would likely be aware of the previous wish and either refuse to do it, or would grant the wish and reverse the other one.
I'm not sure about the cerealians being a particularly powerful species, aside of Granny, who could be an outlier. I think he got more out of the wish for having a long lifespan than plenty of potential, which wasn't enough in his case. Maybe in Gas' it was enough with his potential, we still don't know much about his wish.
Gas (and maybe the other Heeters) probably has a longer lifespan than Granolah and the cerealians, he's older than Granolah (which is at least 40 years old) and looks like a kid or a teen. He got that strong after the wish probably because of that, hence why he grew up.

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Re: Actually VERY FEW characters (mortals) from Universe 7 could get Granolah’s wish

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:15 pm

Kakarotto92 wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:32 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:56 pm Anyway, you might be able to bypass the short lifespan issue by using the other DBs and extending your life. .
People have said that, but I'm pretty sure the Dragons wouldnt allow it. The other Dragon would likely be aware of the previous wish and either refuse to do it, or would grant the wish and reverse the other one.
How would you be so sure?
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Re: Actually VERY FEW characters (mortals) from Universe 7 could get Granolah’s wish

Post by Kakarotto92 » Thu Mar 17, 2022 9:31 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:15 pm
Kakarotto92 wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:32 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:56 pm Anyway, you might be able to bypass the short lifespan issue by using the other DBs and extending your life. .
People have said that, but I'm pretty sure the Dragons wouldnt allow it. The other Dragon would likely be aware of the previous wish and either refuse to do it, or would grant the wish and reverse the other one.
How would you be so sure?
It’s headcanon, but the Dragons have rules, I assume they are aware of previous wishes (even if they were done with other Dragons) and not want to break the rules of the other Dragon.

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Re: Actually VERY FEW characters (mortals) from Universe 7 could get Granolah’s wish

Post by ChronoTwigger » Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:40 pm

It's like the Eyes of Shinigami.
Surelly you get better, but is LIFE a good deal? Most of DB character will never do that for a simple morale thing: they don't want to die sooner. If their life is on a deadline already, maybe. But there's Goku for that XD.
Granolah wish was portraited as the desperate (wrong) action of an obsessed individual, nothing positive that one will do by sane intent.

As for people knowing of such DB spheres, is very unlikely that others doesn't know, except Zuno. Whis seems enough knowledgeable of the Universe to had some hint about, so probably all the angelic cohort and Zeno too should know. Frieza and some in his range is aware that everywhere there are Namekians there are spheres, so it could be a matter of time before they spot them.

Why Zamasu didn't asked for such a thing? Such spheres seems to grant only "mortal level" strenght, but Zamasu was already ahead of that (his hate for ningen was a topic). His sum of wishes made him more resilient than "strong" in the end.
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Re: Actually VERY FEW characters (mortals) from Universe 7 could get Granolah’s wish

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:58 pm

ChronoTwigger wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:40 pm Why Zamasu didn't asked for such a thing? Such spheres seems to grant only "mortal level" strenght, but Zamasu was already ahead of that (his hate for ningen was a topic). His sum of wishes made him more resilient than "strong" in the end.
Because that wish is bad and only brats (like Granolah and Gas) would think about it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If Zamasu wished to become the strongest, he would have become the strongest but only in the moment he made the wish. There's no guarantee he'd remain the strongest after, for example, Goku and Vegeta fused. And he'd still have a body that is lacking in potential compared to the Saiyans.

Wishing for Goku's body is a far better wish and shows a greater degree of intellect and I've said this since the beginning. Because even if Goku is not the strongest, Goku's body has one of the highest potentials in the entire verse.

So basically Granolah and Gas are brats who lacked vision, while Zamasu was thinking of the long-term consequences.

"If I become the strongest NOW, how can I know for certain that I won't get dethroned tomorrow? Then how do I get back on top, when my body doesn't have potential like a Saiyan?"

And we see btw that I am right, because Granolah made that wish only to get dethroned immediately once Gas made the same wish. Then Gas might get dethroned again in the future... Meanwhile Zamasu, with his wish, was never defeated by the protagonists.

Imagine if Granolah wished to switch bodies with Goku instead, all the Zenkai boosts he would have got (from exhausting himself against Vegeta and getting beat down by Gas) would have made him unbeatable :think:

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Re: Actually VERY FEW characters (mortals) from Universe 7 could get Granolah’s wish

Post by Jack Bz » Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:36 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:58 pm Because that wish is bad and only brats (like Granolah and Gas) would think about it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If Zamasu wished to become the strongest, he would have become the strongest but only in the moment he made the wish. There's no guarantee he'd remain the strongest after, for example, Goku and Vegeta fused. And he'd still have a body that is lacking in potential compared to the Saiyans.

Wishing for Goku's body is a far better wish and shows a greater degree of intellect and I've said this since the beginning. Because even if Goku is not the strongest, Goku's body has one of the highest potentials in the entire verse.

So basically Granolah and Gas are brats who lacked vision, while Zamasu was thinking of the long-term consequences.

"If I become the strongest NOW, how can I know for certain that I won't get dethroned tomorrow? Then how do I get back on top, when my body doesn't have potential like a Saiyan?"

And we see btw that I am right, because Granolah made that wish only to get dethroned immediately once Gas made the same wish. Then Gas might get dethroned again in the future... Meanwhile Zamasu, with his wish, was never defeated by the protagonists.

Imagine if Granolah wished to switch bodies with Goku instead, all the Zenkai boosts he would have got (from exhausting himself against Vegeta and getting beat down by Gas) would have made him unbeatable :think:
I mean, Zamasu used the super dragon balls, so he could have just wished to be the strongest being that could or will ever exist. He could probably wish to be 1000000x stronger than the grand priest as far as we know re: their limitations.

He took Goku's body because he thought there was some kind of poetic justice involved rather than because it was the most optimal plan possible.

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Re: Actually VERY FEW characters (mortals) from Universe 7 could get Granolah’s wish

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:19 pm

Jack Bz wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:36 pm I mean, Zamasu used the super dragon balls, so he could have just wished to be the strongest being that could or will ever exist. He could probably wish to be 1000000x stronger than the grand priest as far as we know re: their limitations.
This gets brought up very often, as well as "he could have just wished to become stronger than Zeno", "he could have just wished for Zeno to disappear", etc. but let's be realistic: the Super Dragon Balls were still created by a God (Zalama), would a God not take care of these loopholes?

I can infer that Zalama is cunning because he created massive world-sized Dragon Balls which can only be summoned by speaking the language of the Gods (this already implies that the user wanted to protect his creations from being used against the Gods), so would Zalama really not address the risk of someone using the balls to become even stronger than the Grand Priest and Zeno?

So Yes, theoretically someone could use the SDBs to become 10000x stronger than Zeno and the Grand Priest... but Realistically, I think that Zalama (creator of the Dragon Balls) would have taken care of this risk.
He took Goku's body because he thought there was some kind of poetic justice involved rather than because it was the most optimal plan possible.
Partly. Yes there is also that reason, but as Zamasu explains, he also thought that it was a "perfect war machine". At least once he learned how to master it.

Doesn't this current arc prove it? Goku, who never made the wish, is fighting and humiliating Gas, a fighter who actually did wish to become the strongest.

Does the above not prove that Zamasu was right, about the vast potential of Goku's body?

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Re: Actually VERY FEW characters (mortals) from Universe 7 could get Granolah’s wish

Post by Lukmendes » Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:02 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:19 pm
Jack Bz wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:36 pm I mean, Zamasu used the super dragon balls, so he could have just wished to be the strongest being that could or will ever exist. He could probably wish to be 1000000x stronger than the grand priest as far as we know re: their limitations.
This gets brought up very often, as well as "he could have just wished to become stronger than Zeno", "he could have just wished for Zeno to disappear", etc. but let's be realistic: the Super Dragon Balls were still created by a God (Zalama), would a God not take care of these loopholes?

I can infer that Zalama is cunning because he created massive world-sized Dragon Balls which can only be summoned by speaking the language of the Gods (this already implies that the user wanted to protect his creations from being used against the Gods), so would Zalama really not address the risk of someone using the balls to become even stronger than the Grand Priest and Zeno?

So Yes, theoretically someone could use the SDBs to become 10000x stronger than Zeno and the Grand Priest... but Realistically, I think that Zalama (creator of the Dragon Balls) would have taken care of this risk.
Such a thing is never implied in either U6 or Zamasu's arc though, it's constantly mentioned that "Super Dragon Balls can grant any wish", and in anime ToP, Freeza says his wish will be to control the gods, if Zamasu didn't make a "better" wish because he thought it could go wrong, it's not pointed out at all, and he's the guy killing gods, including gods of destruction (By killing the kaioshins) left and right and expecting Zeno to not notice it so he can keep killing people, guy's definitely not playing safe in any way, he's basically YOLOing.
Partly. Yes there is also that reason, but as Zamasu explains, he also thought that it was a "perfect war machine". At least once he learned how to master it.

Doesn't this current arc prove it? Goku, who never made the wish, is fighting and humiliating Gas, a fighter who actually did wish to become the strongest.

Does the above not prove that Zamasu was right, about the vast potential of Goku's body?
He's right about Goku's huge potential, but Zamasu already takes the lazy route in how he gets power and he just steals someone else's, so he's weirdly limiting himself to a much slower way of getting power, instead of just asking the super dragon balls to amplify his power growth or whatever.

Not that he should go for any alternate routes, Super Dragon Balls are already cosmic cheat codes, and he used 'em twice, but as pointed out above, he hardly went for the most pragmatic route, even if Goku's body has great power.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.

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