Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 86 - Official Discussion Thread

[YamiGoku]

I have to see the manga, but according to the summary Granolah had a major character development when he was as sleep... off screen...

[ChronoTwigger]

No, on a second thought...
Is Toyotaro.
The battle is not over.
Is Toyotaro, he have to escalate. It *cannot* end like Moro, it must add a step more again. Moro was defeated the same way, so Gas couldn't. There should be more.
There's no senzu here to abuse (as long Elec doesn't own one...) so...

There will be way more punching again. And some more special techniques to attach on the fly, long before previous ones were fully developed. Like a Shining Instinct, Pure Instinc, or why not Pure Breed Sayan Instinct. It depend on what Granola dreamt.

[Xeno Goku Black]

Now imagine after this Elec becomes the strongest being in the universe and they spend the next four months having back to back fights again.

[Dragmobot12]

People are overreacting with this whole Elec situation, thinking there will be some kind of twist, but here's what I think will happen.

They will all be arrested by the Galactic Patrol lol, don't forget Goku has contacts with Merus and Jaco. Would be cool to see Merus make a cameo nonetheless, maybe Granolah will become a patrol too.

[chitarra10]

Dragon Ball Super chapter 86 summary that I can share with you

Spoiler:

- Chapter 86: “Full-Power Battle”.
- Gas uses a kind of telekinesis to strangle Goku and tries to break his neck.
- Goku frees himself by teleporting behind him and tries to hit Gas, but Gas punches Goku.
- Gas tells Goku that every cell in his body is burning like fuel and that he had never felt anything like that before.
- Gas creates a whirlwind where he traps Goku, then fires several Ki beams at him that cut Goku's body.
- Elec is happy to see his brother fighting like this, Maki says that she doesn't know if it's right for Gas to win that way.
- Gas creates a big arm with his powers and hits Goku.
- Oil says that it seems Gas has aged, Elec tells him that nothing happens because his power has not diminished.
- Goku tells Gas that he should be careful, because the balance between his power and his body has been broken.
- Gas creates big legs with his powers and kicks Goku.
-Goku tries to attack him, Gas creates 2 big arms with his powers and goes for Goku.
- Before both collides, Ki blast comes between them. It's Granolah that flies and hits Goku.
- Elec is surprised to see that Granolah still hates the Saiyans and tells Granolah that if he kills them he will hire Granolah again.
- Granolah tells Goku that he has heard the voice of Bardock in a dream and tells Goku what he is going to do.
- Granolah begins to charge a large Ki ball in his hands. Goku tells him that he will buy some time for Granolah to prepare his attack.
- Goku stops Gas' giant fist and manages to kick him in the stomach. Gas then creates 2 giant feet and slams Goku into the ground.
- Gas sees Granolah and throws a Ki ball at him but Goku creates a barrier to protect Granolah.
- Gas launches several Ki attacks at Goku until he loses consciousness.
- Gas is exhausted, but is ready to kill Granolah. However, Vegeta arrives and headbutts Gas.
- Vegeta tells Granolah to hurry up and finish preparing his attack.
- Oil and Maki go to help Gas, but Monaito appears between them and makes them sleep with his hypnosis.
- Granolah finishes the preparation of his attack, Vegeta holds Gas so that Granolah doesn't fail.
- Gas breaks free from Vegeta and goes for Granolah. Goku wakes up and creates a giant body like when he fought Moro.
- Goku grabs Gas and throws him out of the Planet.
- Granolah tries to target Gas, but he can't because he has his eyes damaged.
- But Automil helps him and manages to shoot a large Ki ball that hits Gas.
- Gas falls to the ground, Oil and Maki go to his aid. Granolah didn't kill him, he does not want revenge with anyone anymore.
- Granolah tells them to take him to home and never come back.
- Goku and Vegeta reach Granolah, who apologizes to them.
- The chapter ends with Gas on the ground, it seems that he has finally been defeated.

END

Thanks, dude!! But seriously, though. This story is not over. Elec still hasn't been dealt with, so there's still more to this story. Elec can't just get away with no consequences, it would be a horrible ending if he did, unless they intend for him to be a recurring villain or something.

[Lionel]

People are overreacting with this whole Elec situation, thinking there will be some kind of twist, but here's what I think will happen.

They will all be arrested by the Galactic Patrol lol, don't forget Goku has contacts with Merus and Jaco. Would be cool to see Merus make a cameo nonetheless, maybe Granolah will become a patrol too.

I've been reading about that controversy surrounding some of developments in this chapter as well. Personally I wish Toyotaro would let Goku and Vegeta show a bit of unexpected daring in how they handle this situation. The former has always been adverse to killing whereas the latter recognises the liability in allowing these resentful authoritarian types with near unstoppable power to live to terrorise another day. Why not go for a compromise? They can live but it has to be under the terms of them wasting away as a paralytic unable to move little more than their eyelids and muscles needed for breath. The Galatic Patrol could handle them then. What's more the perpetrator in question has been inflicted with a lifelong degeneration that leaves them with only their minds to cope with the maddening loss of human functionality and pursuits.

Might be most appropriate for Gas since he's the most viable threat of the group though he's wasting away from pushing himself too much.

Does that sound too outlandish for these characters to do? Well I admit it's one outcome that's not so predictable as the Heeters turning tail only to inevitably stage a "Return of the tycoon usurper" some point down the road or forcing Goku's hand to execute them.

[chitarra10]

People are overreacting with this whole Elec situation, thinking there will be some kind of twist, but here's what I think will happen.

They will all be arrested by the Galactic Patrol lol, don't forget Goku has contacts with Merus and Jaco. Would be cool to see Merus make a cameo nonetheless, maybe Granolah will become a patrol too.

They still need to explain what Granolah was talking about, though. Somehow, it doesn't seem like it's just that simple as that he heard the recording. It seems like there should be more to it than that.

[Hellspawn28]

I doubt Gas is dead yet. He will keep on fighting until he dies from old age making our first major villain to die from natural causes. It would be rather lame if Goku won against. With Moro, he hasn't defeated a new original villain in Super yet (Freeza does not count). The other major opponents are not evil or they were defeated by someone else (Zamasu was erased by Zeno).

[ChronoTwigger]

People are overreacting with this whole Elec situation, thinking there will be some kind of twist, but here's what I think will happen.

They will all be arrested by the Galactic Patrol lol, don't forget Goku has contacts with Merus and Jaco. Would be cool to see Merus make a cameo nonetheless, maybe Granolah will become a patrol too.

I've been reading about that controversy surrounding some of developments in this chapter as well. Personally I wish Toyotaro would let Goku and Vegeta show a bit of unexpected daring in how they handle this situation. The former has always been adverse to killing whereas the latter recognises the liability in allowing these resentful authoritarian types with near unstoppable power to live to terrorise another day. Why not go for a compromise? They can live but it has to be under the terms of them wasting away as a paralytic unable to move little more than their eyelids and muscles needed for breath. The Galatic Patrol could handle them then. What's more the perpetrator in question has been inflicted with a lifelong degeneration that leaves them with only their minds to cope with the maddening loss of human functionality and pursuits.


Does that sound too outlandish for these characters to do?

You have a twisted concept of compromise, what "being alive" is and the whole matter of detention, punishment and justice.
I suggest you to indepth a bit what "keeping alive" mean - for Goku surely isn't "to keep life functions running", he probably doesn't understand a thing about. He doesn't kill 'cause he want for people to turn good, and by the story you've read so far, there's high chances meeting Goku change you for good (even Frieza started to collaborate for a cause, and Whis talked about some Beerus aptitude changes).

Does that sound too outlandish for these characters to do?
No, it sound outlandish, cruel, evil and unusefull by *definition*, not even fictional. Think of people with SLA or other degenerative illness that *ask* for death, as they are prisoners of their own, circular thoughts with no chance of exit.

If you like the idea of Vegeta doing such violent, cruel crime on someone and that sound you as an exciting perspective, go talk someone about. Seriously.

[OLKv3]

Who is this Granolah guy you're all talking about? Have we seen him before? I mean, it's not like he has an arc named after him or something, right?

</sarcasm>

Yeah, as much as I want this boring arc to be over, it's good that we get to see Granolah again, I hope they can find a way to restore his lifespan because he's not actually a bad guy.

He was the focus for most of the arc. He misses a few chapters (because of injury) and suddenly every acts like he's been ignored. DB fanbase is ridiculous. It was incredibly obvious he'd return to win the battle

I wonder why Toyotaro decided to draw Base Goku with UI eyes this chapter. Goku has Base hair all throughout the chapter, and it can't just be a mistake because Toyotaro has always been consistent with how he shades and draws Sign. It's weird.

[Lionel]

People are overreacting with this whole Elec situation, thinking there will be some kind of twist, but here's what I think will happen.

They will all be arrested by the Galactic Patrol lol, don't forget Goku has contacts with Merus and Jaco. Would be cool to see Merus make a cameo nonetheless, maybe Granolah will become a patrol too.

I've been reading about that controversy surrounding some of developments in this chapter as well. Personally I wish Toyotaro would let Goku and Vegeta show a bit of unexpected daring in how they handle this situation. The former has always been adverse to killing whereas the latter recognises the liability in allowing these resentful authoritarian types with near unstoppable power to live to terrorise another day. Why not go for a compromise? They can live but it has to be under the terms of them wasting away as a paralytic unable to move little more than their eyelids and muscles needed for breath. The Galatic Patrol could handle them then. What's more the perpetrator in question has been inflicted with a lifelong degeneration that leaves them with only their minds to cope with the maddening loss of human functionality and pursuits.


Does that sound too outlandish for these characters to do?

You have a twisted concept of compromise, what "being alive" is and the whole matter of detention, punishment and justice.
I suggest you to indepth a bit what "keeping alive" mean - for Goku surely isn't "to keep life functions running", he probably doesn't understand a thing about. He doesn't kill 'cause he want for people to turn good, and by the story you've read so far, there's high chances meeting Goku change you for good (even Frieza started to collaborate for a cause, and Whis talked about some Beerus aptitude changes).

Does that sound too outlandish for these characters to do?
No, it sound outlandish, cruel, evil and unusefull by *definition*, not even fictional. Think of people with SLA or other degenerative illness that *ask* for death, as they are prisoners of their own, circular thoughts with no chance of exit.

If you like the idea of Vegeta doing such violent, cruel crime on someone and that sound you as an exciting perspective, go talk someone about. Seriously.

That's... essentially what Goku did to Nappa in the Saiyan arc. By his own admission the man was never going to fight again and could do little more than lift an arm. In the harsh imperialist society the two Saiyan invaders hailed from what kind of standard of life does the consequences of Goku's actions there entail?

[Trao]

There are 3 days left. : )

[kemuri07]

Who is this Granolah guy you're all talking about? Have we seen him before? I mean, it's not like he has an arc named after him or something, right?

</sarcasm>

Yeah, as much as I want this boring arc to be over, it's good that we get to see Granolah again, I hope they can find a way to restore his lifespan because he's not actually a bad guy.

He was the focus for most of the arc. He misses a few chapters (because of injury) and suddenly every acts like he's been ignored. DB fanbase is ridiculous. It was incredibly obvious he'd return to win the battle

He was side-lined in his own story arc. Of course he was coming back, but that's not the real issue here. The reason why it feels like Granolah is completely ignored is because the arc itself has a complete lack of focus. A well structured story can absolutely begin one way and become something entirely differently by the end of it. That's not what happens here. What does happen is is that we are first told that the main focus will be Granolah's revenge on Frieza and how it affects the two surviving Saiyans, and then all of a sudden it becomes about Bardock.

And yeah a couple chapters (and let's be fair, it's more than a couple chapters) in a monthly comic feels like an eternity, especially with how poorly paced this arc has been.

[Nistarkail]

Well, something stinky is coming... I don't know why but the absence of Elec and this situation makes suitable for his plan.

And about Oil and Maki, honestly are they really so strong? Because a old buddy with a super low power level cannot hypnotize foes like Oil and Maki. But yes, in the world of DB after Frieza's saga doesn't follow a proper logic.

Well, (assuming you meant Oil instead of Elec) not strong enough for Elec to think they (with their instincts unleashed) would make a difference against the heroes. Monaito presumably too did level up in the past 45 years as he at least sufficiently healed Granolah enough from near-death for him to regain consciousness when before he too weak to heal Muezli when she was near-death/killed. Also, I guess hypnotism works on anyone at every level (Monaito used it to put young Granolah to sleep in the flashback).

As for Elec, I don't know what his plan is by this point lol. We do know from this chapter & prev chapters that he's capable of jumping high/flying & that he personally trained Gas to be the strongest muscle of the Heeters. We've never seen him fight beyond using his gun to shoot 3 people, but he does have 6-pack abs so presumably he does train lmao

Yes, I mean Elec You're right! By the way, Monaito used hypnosis against a really young Granolah whose strength was surely really really low and that's ok. But I don't think that in 45 years, his potential is now enough to be so fast and intercept the two Heeta. At least they were strong as Moro's henchmen aside Zauyogi or Yunba but enough to surpass a weak or a namekkian warrior with a PL of 1.000-3.000!

[OLKv3]

Who is this Granolah guy you're all talking about? Have we seen him before? I mean, it's not like he has an arc named after him or something, right?

</sarcasm>

Yeah, as much as I want this boring arc to be over, it's good that we get to see Granolah again, I hope they can find a way to restore his lifespan because he's not actually a bad guy.

He was the focus for most of the arc. He misses a few chapters (because of injury) and suddenly every acts like he's been ignored. DB fanbase is ridiculous. It was incredibly obvious he'd return to win the battle

He was side-lined in his own story arc. Of course he was coming back, but that's not the real issue here. The reason why it feels like Granolah is completely ignored is because the arc itself has a complete lack of focus. A well structured story can absolutely begin one way and become something entirely differently by the end of it. That's not what happens here. What does happen is is that we are first told that the main focus will be Granolah's revenge on Frieza and how it affects the two surviving Saiyans, and then all of a sudden it becomes about Bardock.

And yeah a couple chapters (and let's be fair, it's more than a couple chapters) in a monthly comic feels like an eternity, especially with how poorly paced this arc has been.

He wasn't ignored. He had a 2 chapter fight against the big bad, where he lost and Goku needed to buy time for him to recover. Then we got the flashback (where saving his life was the focus), and now he returns in the upcoming chapter to save the day. And let's not forget how you guys were complaining when he was fighting Gas, saying "I don't care about OC vs OC"

[Mr Baggins]

After many grueling chapters, the manga finally remembers that Granolah the Survivor is, in fact, a character in the Granolah the Survivor arc and not a glorified action figure or plot device. The story has picked up from where it left off literally volumes ago.

Unfortunately, we've gone from point A to C and skipped B. While Granolah discarding revenge is a natural conclusion to his character arc, it doesn't feel earned because his transition to that point is off-screened. He presumably heard Bardock's recording in his sleep, but any opportunity to show him reflect on those words is brushed over because the plot spent so much time meandering with Gas and Goku. Not good.

Still, the simple fact that this pointless Gas shit is finally over with makes this the best chapter in several months. The next one will probably wrap up the Heeters' plotline and hopefully the arc as a whole. Even if I think it's far too late to stick the landing at this point, I'm willing to see what happens.

Gawd, I can't wait to see Super Hero next month.

[Gt91]

So... it's over, isn't it?
I liked the new team-up. I think we could get max 2 chapters before the new arc.

[FortuneSSJ]

What a fantastic chapter! Liked everything about it!

- Goku vs Gas fights are some of the best in the manga.
- Gas shows once again he has the best moveset from the new characters in the manga.
- Goku avatar not being a one time thing from Moro arc.
- Everyone helps, but Granolah is the one giving the final blow as he should.
- While the panelling is not perfect, there are some great in pages. Toyotaro usually has problems in portraying the scale of things, but that final beam from Granolah was great.

Gas is done but I suspect Elec has a trump card. The question is if it will lead directly to the next arc or not, because this did feel like a final battle.

[Xeogran]

I don't like the fact this chapter hinted that Elec's entire plan was about wishing Gas to be the strongest. Toyotaro tries to build up a smart villain and then ends up with that? I sure hope that's just blueballing, because his reaction shots here were overdone to the point of looking dumb.

If he's done for, this arc will be terrible in my book. It all depends on what Elec does next.

[nineko]

Finally, they did something, but I feel it's not over quite yet, unfortunately. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that Gas is going to stand up once again and become even older, Elec is definitely planning to have Gas die, though I don't know why yet.

[Granolah] presumably heard Bardock's recording in his sleep

Yeah, that's been a thing since Goku hearing everything while he was supposedly asleep because of the heart virus.