How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Anonymous Friend » Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:32 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:25 pm
Dragon Ball has always changed and art in general changes, so I don't see how this is an issue at all.

We can criticize how Dragon Ball handles its character relationships. We can hope for things to improve. Dragon Ball isn't incapable of changing and improving.
[/quote]

Maybe I'm just over looking something, but I've never noticed any sort of real change in Dragon Ball. Or at last nothing that is so outside of what it's been doing for a very long time.

We've had tonal shifts in the King Piccolo and Cell arcs.

At the very basics of what's being discussed, is for one of the supporting characters to show their personal, romantic life. That's not nothing new. The series got it's start because one of the main characters wanted a boyfriend, and another main character wanted a girlfriend. Most romantic stuff in the earlier, gag stuff was used for laughs. Like Yamcha and Chichi. I'm going to also say that Goku and Chi-chi's reunion was also for laughs. (I do wonder how far Chi-chi would have gotten if the brackets were different.) Nothing was ever really covered when it came to Yamcha and Bulma. Trunks disclosed that Vegeta and Bulma were his parents, and we never got much info on how any of that worked. I think the most info we get on any romantic relationship has to be Krillin and 18, Gohan and Videl, and Trunks and Mai, and each of those are barebones. But we do see hints at actual romantic feelings on each person.

At best, I can see a photograph of a significant other, or a offhand mention of a boyfriend. Maybe a shot of Jiren leaving home to go to work and there's the boyfriend, or something that looks like a boy.

I know what year it. And the various reasons why this would be done, for Jiren or any other character. Do you even care that this could potentially be a marketing/PR move if done? Heck, do we even have any black supporting characters in this show, yet?
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by CashmanX » Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:50 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:32 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:25 pm
Dragon Ball has always changed and art in general changes, so I don't see how this is an issue at all.

We can criticize how Dragon Ball handles its character relationships. We can hope for things to improve. Dragon Ball isn't incapable of changing and improving.
I know what year it. And the various reasons why this would be done, for Jiren or any other character. Do you even care that this could potentially be a marketing/PR move if done? Heck, do we even have any black supporting characters in this show, yet?
I think a better comparison here is that modern DB has the good sense nowadays to not revel in Sambo-esque stereotypes (notice how Mr Popo hasn't once shown up in any the new media like Super?) and have actual black coded characters in recent media (See Pan's teacher in the new movie) and yet the internet didn't explode when these things were done.

I feel like it's not too much to ask to not have SA jokes and queerphobia/transphobia in the new stuff.

(Also, Kale/Caulifla totally exist and we all saw how a certain toxic section of the fandom reacted to THAT... :roll: )
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:59 pm

CashmanX wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:50 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:32 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:25 pm
Dragon Ball has always changed and art in general changes, so I don't see how this is an issue at all.

We can criticize how Dragon Ball handles its character relationships. We can hope for things to improve. Dragon Ball isn't incapable of changing and improving.
I know what year it. And the various reasons why this would be done, for Jiren or any other character. Do you even care that this could potentially be a marketing/PR move if done? Heck, do we even have any black supporting characters in this show, yet?
I think a better comparison here is that modern DB has the good sense nowadays to not revel in Sambo-esque stereotypes (notice how Mr Popo hasn't once shown up in any the new media like Super?) and have actual black coded characters in recent media (See Pan's teacher in the new movie) and yet the internet didn't explode when these things were done.

I feel like it's not too much to ask to not have SA jokes and queerphobia/transphobia in the new stuff.

(Also, Kale/Caulifla totally exist and we all saw how a certain toxic section of the fandom reacted to THAT... :roll: )
Yeah, exactly. Things half gotten 10% better, so let's add one more 0 in there.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Jord » Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:49 am

Actually I miss Popo. He was an interesting character and should appear more often. Also, he's not even human so I don't see him as a racist caricature. Especially since other black characters look distinctively different, such as officer Black in the RR Army,

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:20 am

Jord wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:49 am. Also, he's not even human so I don't see him as a racist caricature
If they're not human they can't be a racist caricature

Image

Image



What?

Also not sure what Popo black face discourse has to do with a thread about gay characters.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by Jord » Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:20 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:20 am
Jord wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:49 am. Also, he's not even human so I don't see him as a racist caricature
If they're not human they can't be a racist caricature

Image

Image



What?

Also not sure what Popo black face discourse has to do with a thread about gay characters.
I was reacting to Cashman's post
Also, the difference between your examples and Popo is that pop lives in a world where black people have been clearly defined earlier on in the story
Popo also doesn't behave in a racist or stereotypival behaviour.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by CashmanX » Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:35 pm

Jord wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:20 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:20 am
Jord wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:49 am. Also, he's not even human so I don't see him as a racist caricature
If they're not human they can't be a racist caricature

*snip*

What?

Also not sure what Popo black face discourse has to do with a thread about gay characters.
I was reacting to Cashman's post
Also, the difference between your examples and Popo is that pop lives in a world where black people have been clearly defined earlier on in the story
Popo also doesn't behave in a racist or stereotypival behaviour.
I'm going to assume this reply was in good faith, but oh yes he certainly does: https://mobile.twitter.com/GoldenPortab ... 6496812038

Signed, two actual Black people.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:41 pm

Jord wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:20 pm
Also, the difference between your examples and Popo is that pop lives in a world where black people have been clearly defined earlier on in the story
There where black people in Dumbo too with an even more "yikes" portrayal than the more infamous crows.
Popo also doesn't behave in a racist or stereotypival behaviour.
Ignoring the whole simpleton speech in the Japanese version.

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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

Post by DiloVortexx » Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:55 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:36 pm And they say Cancelling doesn't exist.
lol what how is someone getting banned for being kinda fatphobic and homophobic/transphobic when thats DIRECTLY against the rules of this site cancelling 😭 /not mad
Zephyr wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:04 pm There are a lot of things that Dragon Ball isn't, but fans would like it to be. Like a self-serious drama, or a slice of life story, or a story that takes place in a universe governed by internally-consistent scientific laws.

Doesn't mean they can't dream.
exactly this is basically what i'm doing with my rewrite of the series to kinda make it a mix of all three of those things : o bc i wish to see this series improve more in that aspect and have more rep besides some queercoded characters (for better or for worse.. *glares at general blue and the other kinda gross caricatures we've had in the past*) and scenes that dont ever come up again or when they do they're presented as "oh this was a joke actually" so i'm just like.. hrngh headcanons and improvements i wish to see go brrr
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:41 pm
Jord wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:20 pm Also, the difference between your examples and Popo is that pop lives in a world where black people have been clearly defined earlier on in the story
There where black people in Dumbo too with an even more "yikes" portrayal than the more infamous crows.
Popo also doesn't behave in a racist or stereotypical behaviour.
Ignoring the whole simpleton speech in the Japanese version.
YEP.... like popo has always been a racist caricature of a character and its evident from his appearance, behaviour and hell, even his job on the lookout.. (just look at the thread that was posted earlier by actual black people :thumbup:)
like hi can we make popo a lot more independent of a character even if we keep him as god/kami-sama's right hand man kinda dude.. bc that would be great, thanks! (hence what i've done with him in my rewrite and made his whole species a lot more powerful and not a racist caricature)
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since i'm used to the lgbtq+ focused side of the fandom, those are usually the kind of topics youll see me post in if any of those pop up : o bc i have a pretty queer reading of the series ^^"

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