How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?

[DiloVortexx]

Of course it's not appropriate that's the joke. Why do you think Krillin has that reaction.

He's there to defend the Earth, three attractive criminals show up and Roshi is distracted by them because of their looks. Then he's repulsed when they turn into a fat ugly monstrosity.

It's just a simple straight forward joke.

dont know if i trust like that with using the language of "fat ugly monstrosity" to describe their fused form... (especially as someone like me who is a bit chubby but yknow what the hell would i know eh even tho i know thats the kind of joke they're going for which is.. yeah.) but go off i guess ??? dwb

good on kuririn for not!! judging them on their weight change with the fusion and recognizing them as a general threat and also ofc him being annoyed about muten roshis usual shitty antics lol
we stan characters who dont judge others on their appearances even if its in battle /lighthearted joke

That's not funny, though. That's just saying "haha fat women are ugly" and not "haha fatphobes are weird losers everyone should treat with derision." The Muten Roushi isn't reprimanded for being a scumbag, no message is sent to the child audience to teach them that treating fat people poorly or treating women like they're objects for mens' desires is bad.

It's shitty and offensive writing.

yea pretty much what i said and more like.. imagine having one of your characters shit on plus sized women/people in general and not have them get reprimanded for it? yeah thats straight bad writing chief

EDIT:

It fused and became a 30 foot tall, 10 foot wide being with a ugly face that resembles Yunba. It's not cute, it's hideous. Before they weren't. That was the joke.

uhhhm excuse me.. what in the fresh fuck is this? are we actually gonna do this where we call a chubby woman (who is a fusion no less!) by it/its pronouns in a derogatory manner? i'm not sorry, thats kinda yikes bro

[Xeno Goku Black]

dont know if i trust like that with using the language of "fat ugly monstrosity" to describe their fused form... (especially as someone like me who is a bit chubby but yknow what the hell would i know eh even tho i know thats the kind of joke they're going for which is.. yeah.) but go off i guess ??? dwb

I'm chubby....I'm also not made of glass where every little comment/joke hurts my precious feelings. It's still just a joke and she was fat, she was ugly and did resemble a monster due to her size and appearance, that's what she was purposefully designed to be. Don't worry you'll live, nobodies life will be destroyed by side character Master Roshi making a quick gag about an irrelevant character in a manga that a few hundred thousand people read.

uhhhm excuse me.. what in the fresh fuck is this? are we actually gonna do this where we call a chubby woman (who is a fusion no less!) by it/its pronouns in a derogatory manner? i'm not sorry, thats kinda yikes bro

I don't even know what this is...

[DiloVortexx]

I'm chubby....I'm also not made of glass where every little comment/joke hurts my precious feelings. It's still just a joke and she was fat, she was ugly and did resemble a monster due to her size and appearance, that's what she was purposefully designed to be. Don't worry you'll live, nobodies life will be destroyed by side character Master Roshi making a quick gag about an irrelevant character in a manga that a few hundred thousand people read.

yes it is an issue they portrayed her that way and thats also what I'm trying to say asdfhjdhgfd
i apologize for the misunderstanding on that front, but regardless i still dont know abt using that kind of language to describe her in the first place + the series has done positive fat/plus size rep (ribrianne anyone?) before it can do it again with no issue which... the manga writers didnt really get or give a shit about i guess

also even if its an irrelevant character/characters having the "joke" directed towards them its the fact that its people who arent chubby are doing a joke like this in a supposed to be all ages manga (but has mainly caught the attention of children and teenagers) and said character who did the "joke" who was being a creep to those three women doesnt get called out on it by another character to make it all come full circle

I don't even know what this is...

its kinda yikes to call someone an it (who doesnt go by those pronouns anyway and even then Hmm) just for having a different body shape or unconventional appearance.. like thats a person not an object can we dont.. like I'm just saying, but that kinda feels transphobic (even if thats not intended) bc calling people That for not being conventionally attractive or going by traditional gender standards comes from transphobic rhetoric.

anyways yea this convo has gotten off topic so I'm gonna wait till we get back to respectful convos that arent reaching fatphobic and/or transphobic territory... yeesh.

[Xeno Goku Black]

the series has done positive fat/plus size rep (ribrianne anyone?) before it can do it again with no issue which... the manga writers didnt really get or give a shit about i guess

also even if its an irrelevant character/characters having the "joke" directed towards them its the fact that its people who arent chubby are doing a joke like this in a supposed to be all ages manga (but has mainly caught the attention of children and teenagers) and said character who did the "joke" who was being a creep to those three women doesnt get called out on it by another character to make it all come full circle

I'm sure it can do it again. We also had Roshi make fun of that ugly fat women back in the OG Dragon Ball when Goku was fetching women and he's done that again with this.

I don't think most people care. The children reading in Japan and the writer aren't going to overthink it. They aren't going to be worried that some unfortunate soul somewhere is gonna be all up in arms about it.

She was fat, they made a fat joke, wow.

[DBZAOTA482]

Of course it's not appropriate that's the joke. Why do you think Krillin has that reaction.

He's there to defend the Earth, three attractive criminals show up and Roshi is distracted by them because of their looks. Then he's repulsed when they turn into a fat ugly monstrosity.

It's just a simple straight forward joke.

I don't care if it's appropriate or not, that shit's wack.

Roshi even said they wouldn't let them grope them like they're supposed to submit to his whims.... just no.

There's a thin line between being a pervert and a rapist.

[Xeno Goku Black]

Roshi even said they wouldn't let them grope them like they're supposed to submit to his whims.... just no.

That's part of the joke.

[VegettoEX]

That's part of the joke.

What's the funny part, though?

[Xeno Goku Black]

What's the funny part, though?

That he wants to feel up some hot young women because he's a horny pervy old man and it's inappropriate especially as he's battling for the sake of his world.

It's pretty obvious what the joke is meant to be.

[Zephyr]

I guess you could say that the joke is that Roshi gets blueballed as a "comeuppance"?

Not that the implications of that being a genuine "comeuppance" are particularly great either.

[DBZAOTA482]

Roshi even said they wouldn't let them grope them like they're supposed to submit to his whims.... just no.

That's part of the joke.

A supposed good guy doing blatantly evil shit?

[Xeno Goku Black]

A supposed good guy doing blatantly evil shit?

Yeah pretty much.

[Kunzait_83]

Tons of stuff throughout this thread

Let me ask two VERY simple, basic questions of you (Xeno Black Goku) just to better clarify where exactly it is you're coming from on these sorts of topics:

1) In your view, when is it ever permissible or ok to write a character that is gay, trans, non-binary, or whatever without it being "pandering" or "PC" or "political"? What would the circumstances or context have to be for a fictional work (be it a movie, a comic book, a TV show, a cartoon, what have you) to include an LGBTQ character in it and have it be just... no big deal at all to you? What would it take or what would have to happen in the conception and execution of said character for you to just think "Yeah, ok, this is just whatever and not a huge issue"?

2) And a related point: do you consider the very existence of LGBTQ people - or for that matter just acknowledging the existence of LGBTQ people - to be an inherently political act or statement definitionally? If so, then why exactly is that? If not, then when is the presence or acknowledgement of LGBTQ people NOT political in nature?

By the way, anyone else in this thread who shares Xeno Goku Black's views in these matters (or similar enough views at least) is perfectly free to chime in here with their own answers to these same questions. Because I've long been at the point where I strongly think that these sorts of questions should probably be clarified up front by people before they delve into these "PC Woke Mob" tirades.

[super michael]

DBS need to chill with that shit. I know Roshi was always a pervert but he wasn't that goddamn thirsty.

Yes he was. It's a joke, it's funny.

look i know humour is subjective but uhhh.. i dont think its appropiate (nor funny to me anyway) still to have an old man thirsting over three women in a really creepy way and then he reacts in a fatphobic way upon seeing them fuse in whats supposed to be a show targeted at younger audiences in japan? yeah, idk abt that one chief

Master Roshi said what type of girls he likes in the original manga, there is nothing wrong in Master Roshi not liking fat woman. Everyone has different taste in what they want in their partner.

Take Sakura from Naruto an example, she hated Rock Lee looks and overreacted. Just because of his looks alone, she acted like blowing kiss was poison.

[DiloVortexx]

HOLY SHIT KUN (is it okay if i call you that for short ) POPPING THE FUCK OFF IN THE THREAD LETS GO JSKDFJDFHGJKDHS

fuck it vegetto/mike and kun made a reply ill make another one just to annoy the phobic people even further /j... or really?

I'm sure it can do it again. We also had Roshi make fun of that ugly fat women back in the OG Dragon Ball when Goku was fetching women and he's done that again with this.

there we go again with the blatantly fatphobic comments even if its just from internalized hatred like yes beauty is subjective, but no need to spout off and call characters that dont fit modern beauty standards instantly ugly lol
also that entire subplot is another can of messed up fuckin worms i dont even wanna get into lord...

it is completely fine to just say "we also had roshi make fun of that fat woman back in the og dragon ball" which yea that isnt okay either that happened in the series in the first place btw but at least we're not the ones here insulting people over body types they cant control when they word it like that

I don't think most people care. The children reading in Japan and the writer aren't going to overthink it. They aren't going to be worried that some unfortunate soul somewhere is gonna be all up in arms about it.

oh buddy i can assure you there are quite a few people who care and are rightfully uncomfortable with these kinds of "jokes". to the point that multiple people in japan itself, even children are uncomfortable with these scenes and thats why dragon ball super had been taken off the air for a short while in a few other countries because of the multiple scenes where muten roshi is just straight up

Spoiler:

molesting

women and didnt get punished AT ALL for it and it was instead made into a joke. (yes i am indeed talking about that one universal tournament survival arc scene. lord forbid that women/afab characters in the series are allowed to exist without being

Spoiler:

sexually harassed

by mr turtlefuck)

She was fat, they made a fat joke, wow.

yes, a fat joke that stemmed from a joke of roshi literally admitting he wanted to try to

Spoiler:

sexually harass

3 women that in the year of our lord 2022 has time and time again been proven to 1. not age well later on in time 2. makes multiple people of all ages uncomfortable 3. normalizes that kind of shit since it doesnt call out roshis behaviour as wrong at all.
idk what your point is here but uhh.. not a great outlook on your side ngl

Roshi even said they wouldn't let them grope them like they're supposed to submit to his whims.... just no.

That's part of the joke.

well like mike said, whatever this joke is.. is

That he wants to feel up some hot young women because he's a horny pervy old man and it's inappropriate especially as he's battling for the sake of his world.

It's pretty obvious what the joke is meant to be.

again wheres the haha funny? because i dont see any haha funny out of that situation when real world afabs/women end up getting

Spoiler:

sexually assaulted

all of the time and no one except for those who dare have the gall to speak up about their experiences or those who have a decent mind and opinion on it or in other instances... freaks.. wants to fucking talk about it

sure i may be taking it too seriously but these jokes were never funny to me even when i was a kid.. albeit for multiple personal reasons but Let's not talk about that! /reference


and a bonus because this was posted as i was writing wall of text lol

Master Roshi said what type of girls he likes in the original manga, there is nothing wrong in Master Roshi not liking fat woman. Everyone has different taste in what they want in their partner.

yes this is true, there is nothing wrong with having different preferences in body types regardless of gender this is a thing with all people (unless ur aroace but even then thats a whole spectrum so it depends there even)

just my issue is the fact that they're using his preference in body types to make not one but two very distasteful and pretty vulgar jokes for the kind of audience this series is supposed to be for and they dont even have the guts to punish roshi for his shitty predatory actions in these more recent "jokes"
at least back then you got to see him get punched in the face or wacked upside the head for being a creep (rightfully so) but w/ the universal survival arc scene and now this scene they didnt even call him out for what he did (well kuririn gets annoyed with him at least which i cant blame him imagine being like that..) so.. yeah.. thats a bit of an concerning issue considering the target audience here

EDIT: apologies @ the admins + others if i'm coming off as a bit hostile with this post just i do get uhhh.. not really upset but more like.. is the word to use competitive??? when it comes to debates covering these kinds of topics??? i dont fuckin know its a left-leaning dragon ball forum thats lgbtq+ inclusive except for the few ppl who arent (sorry for your loss)

so if the people who are defending distasteful

Spoiler:

rape

and fatphobic jokes are passionate about their posts then i think i have the right to be passionate on my side of things too? .w. but if any of the admins/mods want me to tone it done next time please lemme know ^^"
JUST IG I'M KINDA LIKE KUNZAIT AND GET VERY TALKATIVE AND PASSIONATE ABT THESE KINDS OF TOPICS JSKDFJDLFKGJKD

[Kaboom]

Just imagine... Geran getting a whole second character trait!

[JulieYBM]

Just imagine... Geran getting a whole second character trait!

Jiren has more than one trait to his character.

1. Rigid beliefs on combat and martial arts.
2. Traumatized.
3. Afraid to open up to others (due to his trauma).
4. Respected by his peers but also does a poor job of being a good leader.

Being a man-loving man would be a fifth trait. Hell, I might even be forgetting one, I haven't had the spoons to re-watch Super yet.

[MasenkoHA]

Yes he was. It's a joke, it's funny.

look i know humour is subjective but uhhh.. i dont think its appropiate (nor funny to me anyway) still to have an old man thirsting over three women in a really creepy way and then he reacts in a fatphobic way upon seeing them fuse in whats supposed to be a show targeted at younger audiences in japan? yeah, idk abt that one chief

Master Roshi said what type of girls he likes in the original manga, there is nothing wrong in Master Roshi not liking fat woman. Everyone has different taste in what they want in their partner.
.

The problem isn't that Roshi isn't allowed to have his preferences. The problem is fat women are the butt of the joke.

[Kunzait_83]

The problem isn't that Roshi isn't allowed to have his preferences. The problem is fat women are the butt of the joke.

Heheheheh... butt.



(I'm not helping, am I? )

[DiloVortexx]

Just imagine... Geran getting a whole second character trait!

we do love our masculine men who love masculine men out here though!! they are so valid and I'm proud of them ♥ /lighthearted

Jiren has more than one trait to his character.

1. Rigid beliefs on combat and martial arts.
2. Traumatized.
3. Afraid to open up to others (due to his trauma).
4. Respected by his peers but also does a poor job of being a good leader.

Being a man-loving man would be a fifth trait. Hell, I might even be forgetting one, I haven't had the spoons to re-watch Super yet.

oh yea that is true too,, and cheers i drink to that too sis @ 2. and 3. /ref (yes i did change the meme format to be gender affirming : D)

The problem isn't that Roshi isn't allowed to have his preferences. The problem is fat women are the butt of the joke.

Heheheheh... butt.

Spoiler:

top ten images on Fanmade Dragon Ball™ Franchise Forum, Kanzenshuu.com that i can hear /j

EDIT: btw being serious for a moment again, yeah exactly @ masenkoha
i dont have issues with the fact roshi has preferences that dont include fat women, the issue is is that his preferences are being used as an excuse to make distasteful jokes (ik I'm repeating myself but i just like to get my side across jdfkjgd) which is... not okay

[Xeno Goku Black]

but no need to spout off and call characters that dont fit modern beauty standards instantly ugly lol

But she is ugly. The fictional character doesn't need your protecting. She's ugly, she was drawn with the intention of her being ugly.

oh buddy i can assure you there are quite a few people who care and are rightfully uncomfortable with these kinds of "jokes"

That's fine. The vast majority are not uncomfortable by the jokes. There's always someone somewhere who is uncomfortable over something. Writers can't constantly be walking on egg shells just because someone somewhere can't take a joke in a kids comic.

sure i may be taking it too seriously but these jokes were never funny to me even when i was a kid

Then the jokes weren't intended for you. They're not funny to you, they are to either people. What of it? The series wasn't written just for you.