Hopefully being promoted alongside One Piece and Boruto will finally give Akira the mainstream exposure it's been lacking all these years.
Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
I'm sure he was good at his craft (I've heard about him but never really looked into his work) and enjoyed quite a bit of success throughout his career, but pointing him on the same level as Steven Spielberg or Bruce Willis is really pushing it.Kunzait_83 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:55 pm This is emblematic of what makes trying to talk basic facts of reality so infuriating with you: Roger Ebert wasn't just some random, generic movie critic. The dude was an actual, honest to god celebrity for his time. He had a nationally televised show ("At The Movies") about movies that aired for literally over 20 years straight. His was literally as mainstream and associated with major Hollywood movies among the general public as people like Steven Spielberg or Bruce Willis.
Yes, He was very successful at what he was doing, but again his career path is not the most lucrative out there.He VERY much demonstrably, factually was a majorly significant voice on movies and pop culture for more than 40+ years.
Also coincidently, all the movies he screenwrote were all duds and critically panned.
I did some research on the Epic Imprint and it has no history. It may have found a niche for itself but it's done and forgotten.Comic books. You know, those things with the words inside the little bubbles in paneled pictures?
Akira's manga was published in English in the United States by Marvel Comics under its Epic Imprint (which was comics aimed at older, adult aged readers) and was serialized in its original chapter length from 1988 to 1996 in almost its entirety. It sold generally well and was probably one of the top selling comics under the Epic brand for much of that brand's lifespan.
Akira was very much a fairly mainstream success for that time, having sold well as both a manga under Marvel's Epic brand, and as a VHS tape for the anime. People in broader culture in a general sense knew what Akira was by the mid-90s: and if they hadn't seen it, they were at a bare minimum aware of it as a "weird sci fi thing from Japan". Did that also include little kids on the playground in middle of nowhere Nebraska? No. But that demographic, as stated repeatedly now, is not the be-all, end-all of what constitutes "mainstream".
Only 5 million copies sold overseas in 2000 is a thing.Little kids on the playground circa 1999/2000 who are obsessed solely/primarily with Saturday Morning Cartoons, Nintendo, Power Rangers, and WWF are not the center of the fucking universe. Other people, other demographics, and other spheres of interests exist, and in tremendously great abundance. You as one of those little kids back then not being aware of these other spheres of culture does not mean that they did not exist, nor does it mean that they weren't significant or part of the mainstream. You're just being willfully ignorant and refusing to face incredibly simple and not at all difficult to grasp reality at this point.
It depends on the accolades. Akira can definitely be considered a cult and critical success, but commercially it was merely a stepping stone for anime in the west. It failed in Japan, however.Answer a simple question then: is an adult audience a "valid" demographic to you or isn't it? If something is aimed at adults rather than kids and is a success among adults but not among children, then would you consider it to be "mainstream"?
Dragon Ball was definitely more beneficial to the image of anime in the west than Pokemon. It was edgy, had a distinct story-driven plot, and mass appeal (martial arts is universally revered and respected). The Saiyan and Namek arcs in particular had pretty much everything you can ask for in an anime (drama, comedy, action, character development, etc.).If you want to bring whether or not a major hit anime was "beneficial to the image of anime" into this discussion: then I can be here a LONG time going into detail why Dragon Ball was no more beneficial to anime's Western image than Pokemon was. BOTH Pokemon and DBZ alike I would argue were equally detrimental to the overall image of Japanese anime in north America during the turn of the millennium.
I've met many kinds of Dragon Ball in passing, even old women.
The "Mon" shows by comparison are almost exclusively watched by children and have largely been phased out.
Battle Shonen are running things and that's a problem? The state of anime in the west can never be better. It's now reaching out to wide variety of audiences, the quality of English Dubs have went up drastically over the years, there's a wide selection of different anime on streaming sites like Netflix and Hulu, and it's easily accessible to the everyman.Yes, they lead to the monstrous success and continued juggernaut that is "Shonen": but guess what? Anime is a LOT more than just fucking Shonen. Not all of us are (or ever have been) enthralled with the dominance of Shonen. Not everyone believes that Shonen being the dominant face of anime in the West is or ever was such a fucking good thing.
Mozart's music is taught throughout music classes in schools so he's definitely someone your average joe would know about. HIs CD even outsold Beyonce's whole album. He was simply ahead of his time.Do we actually need to go over why/how exactly gauging a person's impact on the cultural landscape by how much money they made is... incredibly flawed, incredibly moronic, and shallower than all hell logic?
Christ, Mozart's music has literally helped set a new baseline for musical theory and composition, and he literally died penniless and was buried in a pauper's grave. Same with van Gogh with painting. Henry Darger ended up becoming one of the most significant avant garde artists of the last half century with his work having an incredible impact on visual design for countless future artists and just for many people's basic conceptions of art more broadly: and he spent pretty much his entire life as little more than an anonymous hospital janitor, no richer than you or I.
I doubt the average joe is basing what movie they watch on what a movie critic says.
Success is a very abstract concept. It can't be easily defined but if you set records, get awards, earn acclaim, etc., you can say you succeed.Do you not realize how you're literally contradicting yourself within a couple of posts back to back in the same thread? Either something is mainstream if it does well within its intended demo OR its mainstream if it crosses over beyond just its one demo. You can only PICK ONE of these, you can't literally say two things that are the exact opposite and claim that both are true.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
i don't think you've actually made one good, or accurate point this entire thread, and people pointing that out isn't Different Strokes or them just disagreeing, you've just been wrong the entire conversation.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.
Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
I'm pretty sure that's the point. Siskel and Ebert are household names.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:52 pmI'm sure he was good at his craft (I've heard about him but never really looked into his work) and enjoyed quite a bit of success throughout his career, but pointing him on the same level as Steven Spielberg or Bruce Willis is really pushing it.
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
Yes they are well-known but is the general public actively invested in their critiques?Zephyr wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:02 pmI'm pretty sure that's the point. Siskel and Ebert are household names.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:52 pmI'm sure he was good at his craft (I've heard about him but never really looked into his work) and enjoyed quite a bit of success throughout his career, but pointing him on the same level as Steven Spielberg or Bruce Willis is really pushing it.
Remember Akira only had a very limited release theatrically overseas and neither the manga or home video releases did crazy numbers.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
Again, for the millionth time, this has never been the point.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:24 pm
but is the general public actively invested in their critiques?
.
The point is they were well known. You seem to be hyperfocusing on everyone telling you their opinion matters when absolutely nobody has said that. Like literally nobody.
Their show lasted from the 80s all the way til 2010 (more than a decade after Siskel's death)
And it wasn't just Akira they also reviewed stuff like Ghost in the Shell and Kiki's Delivery Service.
Ebert wrote an article in 99 about how anime was a huge growing market in the US with video shelves filled with anime. And no he wasn't talking about shit like Pokemon and Dragon Ball Z
Do you think nobody watched their show or read their columns in their respective newspaper publications?
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
Except it was.
Osama Bin Laden was well-known, but would you call him "mainstream"?
Akira is a cult hit that allowed for more mature anime to be released by showing it wasn't just "kiddie" stuff. It can be violent (grotesque even) and dark but thought-provoking and had beautiful art/animation that rivals the Disney movies of that time.
It's very popular but is still rather niche.
It wasn't the push for anime to mainstream status but it was a start.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
Jesus fuck, what?DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:55 pmExcept it was.
Osama Bin Laden was well-known, but would you call him "mainstream"?
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
I just lost a few brain cells reading this attempt at a gotcha. You're not even comparing apples to oranges. You'reDBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:55 pm .
Osama Bin Laden was well-known, but would you call him "mainstream"?
comparing apples to concrete.
Sure, it didn't single handedly push anime into the mainstream (and I don't think anyone said it did?) but it was a symptom of anime's growing presence in the states. The main thing here is anime had gone mainstream well before DBZ did. All DBZ did was introduce its target audience to anime and (along with Sailor Moon) ensured Toonami would mostly focus on anime (but also because the guy running Toonami was an an anime fan himself and even took the extra time to make Tenchi Muyo suitable for Y7FV standards so it could be introduced to Toonami's audience because he was a fan of that series)Akira is a cult hit that allowed for more mature anime to be released by showing it wasn't just "kiddie" stuff. It can be violent (grotesque even) and dark but thought-provoking and had beautiful art/animation that rivals the Disney movies of that time.
It's very popular but is still rather niche.
It wasn't the push for anime to mainstream status but it was a start.
Anime went mainstream before DBZ came to the States is what everyone has been trying to tell you and you refuse to accept because it goes against the crown you placed on DBZ's head.
Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
Nigga what?DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:55 pmExcept it was.
Osama Bin Laden was well-known, but would you call him "mainstream"?
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
How do you know that's the case in Norway? Why were most manga releases during that period canceled and why was no other anime than beyblade, Pokémon and some select Digimon seasons on TV? Why not Dragon Ball or more expanded anime?JulieYBM wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:37 pmBecause Pokemon did not hurt readership. Furthermore, what few people said "all manga and anime are exactly like Pokemon!" is such a comically low number of people thinking an incredibly illogical thing that nothing would have gotten them into manga or anime in the first place, anyway.
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:55 pmExcept it was.
Osama Bin Laden was well-known, but would you call him "mainstream"?
I know its against the forum's rules to just post image/gif only responses to things: but I have nothing else that I COULD conceivably post that better sums up the only sane, logical response to this.
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Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
Except you haven't actually proven anime was mainstream at the time. It wasn't even mainstream when DBZ got big but it was steadily becoming so.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:11 am Sure, it didn't single handedly push anime into the mainstream (and I don't think anyone said it did?) but it was a symptom of anime's growing presence in the states. The main thing here is anime had gone mainstream well before DBZ did. All DBZ did was introduce its target audience to anime and (along with Sailor Moon) ensured Toonami would mostly focus on anime (but also because the guy running Toonami was an an anime fan himself and even took the extra time to make Tenchi Muyo suitable for Y7FV standards so it could be introduced to Toonami's audience because he was a fan of that series)
Like I said, the thing that made Toonami so special is that it appealed to a wide variety of different audiences while respecting the roots of anime. I even backed it up with facts and statistics that you conveniently ignore.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... ng-ratings
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... ps-ratings
The Simpsons got bodied by a show that was airing on Cable television.
https://www.reuters.com/article/chart-b ... 0120080606
https://books.google.com/books?id=Hw8EA ... AXoECAMQAw
https://books.google.com/books?id=8Q8EA ... hs&f=false
Last edited by DBZAOTA482 on Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
Why...out of all people....you named OBL? Nigga you could've said a music artist or a comic book character. Not a freaking terroristDBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:55 pmExcept it was.
Osama Bin Laden was well-known, but would you call him "mainstream"?
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
The idea of anime was never a thing in America before DBZ and Pokemon is dumb. It's like saying that FPS games were never popular until Halo or no one was listing to nu metal before Linkin Park. I was watching anime from a younger age than most Millennials around my age group did (People born in the late 80s and early 90s). I remember watching anime such as Demon City Shinjuku, My Neighbor Totoro (The Fox Home Video release), Venus Wars, Dominion Tank Police, etc before I even saw any of the Dragon Ball shows or anyone I knew talked about anime. I do remember when anime was view as the cool and awesome type of cartoons to watch because people didn't want to watch dumb kids stuff on TV. Why watch G.I Joe when you can watch Area 88 instead? It was the biggest draw to Americans at the time.
I also do remember when Toonami was hated by anime fans because they edited their shows down. I was on AOL chat rooms back in the day and seeing so many people bitch about Outlaw Star getting edited. Not to mention, Funimation's dubs were flacked on too.
I also do remember when Toonami was hated by anime fans because they edited their shows down. I was on AOL chat rooms back in the day and seeing so many people bitch about Outlaw Star getting edited. Not to mention, Funimation's dubs were flacked on too.
Wait what? Did you seriously press the submit button when writing that?DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:55 pmExcept it was.
Osama Bin Laden was well-known, but would you call him "mainstream"?
Roger Ebert was one of the biggest movie critics in America for decades. He had his own TV show that was popular with many people. I have fun memories of me watching Siskel & Ebert and the Movies around dinner time on TV. It won't surprise me if most people never knew about them until the Nostalgia Critic was a thing.I doubt the average joe is basing what movie they watch on what a movie critic says.
Many of them did including myself. I had Internet at home and many kids in my school would go to the computer labs to look up shit.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:15 am How many kids do you know used computers in the early 2000s?
Word of mouth is way people see or buy things in the first place. They hear it's good, people go out and watch it. Do you think a movie like The Matrix did so well out of nothing?DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:15 am Can you give an example of people buying media solely because of what a critic says? Good on trailers to use praise to hype up their products but if the product is good, it will sell itself.
This is true. 99% of the anime industry at the time was never aim towards to kids. Do you think these anime titles being released back in 1998-2000 were aim towards the kids that watched Toonami?
Last edited by Hellspawn28 on Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
You ignored the part of the ANN article where it was talking about a specific demographic...because the average Simpsons episode garnered 15 million viewers in 2002. Of course elementary and middle school kids are gonna be more interested in the action cartoon that's on at 5:30 on weekdays.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:52 amExcept you haven't actually proven anime was mainstream at the time. It wasn't even mainstream when DBZ got big but it was steadily becoming so.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:11 am Sure, it didn't single handedly push anime into the mainstream (and I don't think anyone said it did?) but it was a symptom of anime's growing presence in the states. The main thing here is anime had gone mainstream well before DBZ did. All DBZ did was introduce its target audience to anime and (along with Sailor Moon) ensured Toonami would mostly focus on anime (but also because the guy running Toonami was an an anime fan himself and even took the extra time to make Tenchi Muyo suitable for Y7FV standards so it could be introduced to Toonami's audience because he was a fan of that series)
Like I said, the thing that made Toonami so special is that it appealed to a wide variety of different audiences while respecting the roots of anime. I even backed it up with facts and statistics that you conveniently ignore.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... ng-ratings
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... ps-ratings
The Simpsons got bodied by a show that was airing on Cable television.
https://www.reuters.com/article/chart-b ... 0120080606
https://books.google.com/books?id=Hw8EA ... AXoECAMQAw
https://books.google.com/books?id=8Q8EA ... hs&f=false
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
Dragon Ball may be one of the biggest anime & manga series globally, but I don't view as the biggest franchise from Japan. It still hasn't beaten out One Piece, Pokemon, and Godzilla yet.
True, the Hadoken was actually inspired by a beam attack in Space Battleship Yamato. It looking like the kamehameha is prue coincidental considering that they are both wuixa franchises. I do remember when people did view DBZ was a SF rip off for having similar attacks back in the day .
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Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
It mentions men 12-24. How many 24 year olds are in elementary or middle school?jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:05 amYou ignored the part of the ANN article where it was talking about a specific demographic...because the average Simpsons episode garnered 15 million viewers in 2002. Of course elementary and middle school kids are gonna be more interested in the action cartoon that's on at 5:30 on weekdays.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:52 amExcept you haven't actually proven anime was mainstream at the time. It wasn't even mainstream when DBZ got big but it was steadily becoming so.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:11 am Sure, it didn't single handedly push anime into the mainstream (and I don't think anyone said it did?) but it was a symptom of anime's growing presence in the states. The main thing here is anime had gone mainstream well before DBZ did. All DBZ did was introduce its target audience to anime and (along with Sailor Moon) ensured Toonami would mostly focus on anime (but also because the guy running Toonami was an an anime fan himself and even took the extra time to make Tenchi Muyo suitable for Y7FV standards so it could be introduced to Toonami's audience because he was a fan of that series)
Like I said, the thing that made Toonami so special is that it appealed to a wide variety of different audiences while respecting the roots of anime. I even backed it up with facts and statistics that you conveniently ignore.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... ng-ratings
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... ps-ratings
The Simpsons got bodied by a show that was airing on Cable television.
https://www.reuters.com/article/chart-b ... 0120080606
https://books.google.com/books?id=Hw8EA ... AXoECAMQAw
https://books.google.com/books?id=8Q8EA ... hs&f=false
Also, Dragon Ball made more on home video than The Simpsons.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
How heavily do you think the 12-24 block is skewed by teenagers viewing habits?DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:31 amIt mentions men 12-24. How many 24 year olds are in elementary or middle school?jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:05 amYou ignored the part of the ANN article where it was talking about a specific demographic...because the average Simpsons episode garnered 15 million viewers in 2002. Of course elementary and middle school kids are gonna be more interested in the action cartoon that's on at 5:30 on weekdays.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:52 am
Except you haven't actually proven anime was mainstream at the time. It wasn't even mainstream when DBZ got big but it was steadily becoming so.
Like I said, the thing that made Toonami so special is that it appealed to a wide variety of different audiences while respecting the roots of anime. I even backed it up with facts and statistics that you conveniently ignore.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... ng-ratings
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... ps-ratings
The Simpsons got bodied by a show that was airing on Cable television.
https://www.reuters.com/article/chart-b ... 0120080606
https://books.google.com/books?id=Hw8EA ... AXoECAMQAw
https://books.google.com/books?id=8Q8EA ... hs&f=false
Also, Dragon Ball made more on home video than The Simpsons.
And of course Dragon Ball would make more in home video when the episodes were released on there before they even aired on television. Dragon Ball depended on the home video market significantly more than The Simpsons.
Like no shit would the never before seen episodes of Dragon Ball perform more than decades old Simpson episodes that people saw a million times on syndication anyway.
Home video was an afterthought for TV until the mid 00s. It wasn't until the strength of Family Guy's DVD sales (which themselves were more a confirmation of the adult swim reruns' popularity anyway) helped resurrect it that major shows started taking it seriously.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler
Re: Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?
No. Siskel and Ebert were well known household names. If they talked about something, chances are that thing's existence would be general public knowledge. Meaning, anime was in the mainstream public consciousness.
And this has all been a huge tangent anyway: nobody gonna bring up shit like Astro Boy and Speed Racer?
A better point might be that things like the Pokemon anime and stuff that aired on Toonami (including DBZ) imprinted on a ton of younger millennials, and as a result of their having reached adulthood and become adult consumers, anime is now more mainstream than it had been in the 90's. I don't think anyone would deny that we can talk about this in terms of "how mainstream something is" rather than within the confines of a binary "mainstream or not".
On closer inspection and reflection, this isn't as incredible as you'd think.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:52 amhttps://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... ps-ratings
The Simpsons got bodied by a show that was airing on Cable television.
"posted on 2002-09-28"
"Beating out everything from Digimon to the Simpsons and other Prime Time broadcast shows, the season premiere of Dragonball Z was the most watched show on TV last week (week ending September 22nd) for its key demographics."
So, it's a common point of agreement that The Simpsons had a "golden age" in the 90's, after which its quality began to decline. When that moment exactly was will vary. I've seen everything from Season 7 to Season 14 argued, with 9 or 10 being the most common sticking points.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_T ... s_episodes
Looking at this, The Simpsons would have been well past its prime by late 2002, when DBZ had its season premiere. So, DBZ bodied a weakened Simpsons.
The 13th Season of The Simpsons ended on May 22, 2002. The 14th Season didn't begin airing until November 3, 2002. So, DBZ had a season premiere that bodied a weakened Simpsons which was between seasons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_D ... Z_episodes
Looking at this, that DBZ 'season' was much of the latter Boo arc, beginning after Vegeta's sacrifice. These new DBZ episodes were the first ones after a major cliffhanger, the continuation of an ongoing arc.