What are the best episode and scenes in DBS

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Aside from the usual standout moments, I really loved Goku recruiting Freeza for the Tournament of Power.

Seeing those 2 interact after their many shared moments of animosity was a treat to see, as their interactions were some of the best throughout the whole arc. Freeza goading Goku on with promises of his growth and potential, Goku playing on Freeza's lividness at staying in Hell to get him to join up, the "hand slipping", Goku only knocing out the Universe 9 assassins while Freeza uses it as an opportunity to go murder-happy with consequence, etc.

It also sets the tone for their later interactions, culminating in a kind of begrudging respect by the end of it.

The ToP arc did wonders for Freeza's character, developing his relationship with Goku in particular.

[Zephyr]

Aside from the usual standout moments, I really loved Goku recruiting Freeza for the Tournament of Power.

Seeing those 2 interact after their many shared moments of animosity was a treat to see, as their interactions were some of the best throughout the whole arc. Freeza goading Goku on with promises of his growth and potential, Goku playing on Freeza's lividness at staying in Hell to get him to join up, the "hand slipping", Goku only knocing out the Universe 9 assassins while Freeza uses it as an opportunity to go murder-happy with consequence, etc.

It also sets the tone for their later interactions, culminating in a kind of begrudging respect by the end of it.

The ToP arc did wonders for Freeza's character, developing his relationship with Goku in particular.

Yeah, I think Freeza's handling in the anime's Universal Survival arc overall is great; just about all of my favorite parts of Super involve him in that arc. It's honestly one of the main things (if not the main thing) that to me justifies Super opening Dragon Ball's long-complete narrative back up to make some additions in the first place: Goku finally getting a second shot at "the one (rival) who got away". The main thing keeping me interested in Super as a whole at this point is seeing what they do next with this rivalry; I've received some crumbs, but nothing too substantial yet, and not even in the same medium/"continuity".

[ABED]

Aside from the usual standout moments, I really loved Goku recruiting Freeza for the Tournament of Power.

Seeing those 2 interact after their many shared moments of animosity was a treat to see, as their interactions were some of the best throughout the whole arc. Freeza goading Goku on with promises of his growth and potential, Goku playing on Freeza's lividness at staying in Hell to get him to join up, the "hand slipping", Goku only knocing out the Universe 9 assassins while Freeza uses it as an opportunity to go murder-happy with consequence, etc.

It also sets the tone for their later interactions, culminating in a kind of begrudging respect by the end of it.

The ToP arc did wonders for Freeza's character, developing his relationship with Goku in particular.

Yeah, I think Freeza's handling in the anime's Universal Survival arc overall is great; just about all of my favorite parts of Super involve him in that arc. It's honestly one of the main things (if not the main thing) that to me justifies Super opening Dragon Ball's long-complete narrative back up to make some additions in the first place: Goku finally getting a second shot at "the one (rival) who got away". The main thing keeping me interested in Super as a whole at this point is seeing what they do next with this rivalry; I've received some crumbs, but nothing too substantial yet, and not even in the same medium/"continuity".

The one that got away? Who was the first one, and what do you mean by the one rival that got away?

[90sDBZ]

He didn't slack off after Super, and his journey was never about "protecting the Earth". It's about reconciling all parts of himself - the warrior and the scholar. I guess compared to the others, he's slacking but for Gohan to be his own person, he also has to concentrate on the scholarly side of himself.

And being busy doesn't make him neglectful. If anything, giving him foibles makes him decidedly not a caricature. It stuff like this that make it a movie infinitely better than DBS: Broly.

I haven't kept up with the Manga, but if I take the movie at face value it's strongly implied he hasn't been training much at all outside of learning the Makankosappo/Special Beam cannon.

Yes it was about him reconciling parts of himself, but protecting the Earth was always a major factor that influenced that. He's always been a caring and responsible guy by nature, so him being strong should ultimately lead him to want to defend the planet.

The movie portays him as a straight up slacker. He's not focusing on his scholar work or family, he's just geeking out over insects. He can't be bothered to pick up his daughter from school, and ultimately has to be tricked by Piccolo into taking action.

[Dbzk1999]

I haven't kept up with the Manga, but if I take the movie at face value it's strongly implied he hasn't been training much at all outside of learning the Makankosappo/Special Beam cannon.

The movie portays him as a straight up slacker. He's not focusing on his scholar work or family, he's just geeking out over insects. He can't be bothered to pick up his daughter from school, and ultimately has to be tricked by Piccolo into taking action.

For the first part, he more or less says he’s been keeping himself in shape when piccolo tries the initial sneak attack on him. What he was slacking on was his fighting sense/instinct (which is shown when he lets his guard down and Piccolo does the second sneak attack). Piccolo even notes when Pan is worried about Gohan beating Gamma 1 that he’s not worried about Gohan winning the fight so long as he recovers his fighting instinct

For the second part, the insects WAS his scholar work, he was specifically conducting research on it to make a report.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I think Gohan studying insects and using them as an example to understand how saiyans can transform makes sense. If you take Dragon Ball Online into consideration where its said his research is into ki it adds some merit to what he was doing rather than it just being some nerdy hobby he's partaking in to forgo his fatherhood duties.

[90sDBZ]

For the first part, he more or less says he’s been keeping himself in shape when piccolo tries the initial sneak attack on him. What he was slacking on was his fighting sense/instinct (which is shown when he lets his guard down and Piccolo does the second sneak attack). Piccolo even notes when Pan is worried about Gohan beating Gamma 1 that he’s not worried about Gohan winning the fight so long as he recovers his fighting instinct

For the second part, the insects WAS his scholar work, he was specifically conducting research on it to make a report.

There might be some room for interpretation, but I definitely got the impression he hadn't been training much. Him falling for Piccolo's 2nd sneak attack made me take his line about not slacking with a huge grain of salt. If he had been training then his instinct should still be sharp.

He also seems unable to access his Mystic form again until he thinks Pan's in danger, despite him having full control over it in the ToP.

I'll take your word on the insect thing being for a report, as I don't remember it clearly enough.

[Zephyr]

Who was the first one, and what do you mean by the one rival that got away?

Who was Goku's first rival? Yamcha, Kuririn, or Tenshinhan, depending on how you look at it. I mean that we never got to see Freeza walk down the same sort of path that Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Vegeta did, where their fighting Goku encouraged them to better themselves as martial artists, leading to a rematch down the line. He was the next logical character to go down this road after Vegeta, but instead he got killed by Trunks.

[Yuji]

Who was the first one, and what do you mean by the one rival that got away?

Who was Goku's first rival? Yamcha, Kuririn, or Tenshinhan, depending on how you look at it. I mean that we never got to see Freeza walk down the same sort of path that Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Vegeta did, where their fighting Goku encouraged them to better themselves as martial artists, leading to a rematch down the line. He was the next logical character to go down this road after Vegeta, but instead he got killed by Trunks.

Goku never expressed any interest in seeing Freeza again in the original series. On the contrary, he explicitly says the opposite and spares him out of pure pity and empathy. I get your point, but it's only in RoF that Goku takes an interest in Freeza as a sparring partner and martial artist and you're recontextualizing their whole relationship based on this. Realistically, Goku should not have a soft spot for Freeza like he does in Super.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I hope Freeza is never taken in the same direction as Tenshinhan, Piccolo and Vegeta. I like redemption arcs but Dragon Ball has treaded dangerously close to the concept being cheapened because of overuse.

[Yuji]

I hope Freeza is never taken in the same direction as Tenshinhan, Piccolo and Vegeta. I like redemption arcs but Dragon Ball has treaded dangerously close to the concept being cheapened because of overuse.

Agreed. I prefer to see Freeza in the role of guy that won't ever change but at least becomes tolerable enough not to be killed off on-sight.

[SupremeKai25]

Episodes: Pretty much all the fight-intense episodes of Super arcs are good, entertaining, and well-animated. Goku and Trunks vs. Black and Zamasu (57), Fused Zamasu vs. Vegito (66), Jiren vs. Goku (109-10), Kefla vs. Goku (116), and then the last two episodes obviously stand out.

Scenes: I'm surprised no one here has mentioned the scenes where Zamasu kills people yet.

Zamasu kills Future Bulma in ep. 47, then Goku and his family in ep. 61 flashback, then the entire earthling population in ep. 67.

For all the talk online about Super lacking DBZ's "maturity" and "violence", Zamasu's body-count sure was high and graphic.

These scenes are tragic, they show just how twisted Zamasu has become, but they are also violent displays of Zamasu's cruelty, scenes that make Super way more serious and mature than some people online give it credit for.

From the manga, similar scenes are Black impaling Gowasu through the chest and Moro doing the same thing to Goku.

Beyond this violent scenes, I love the scenes where Zamasu and Gowasu debate on the nature of good and evil and on the role of mortals and Gods. They are unique scenes in a show like Dragon Ball, and they also perfectly show Zamasu's twisted mentality and his fall from grace.

[Zephyr]

Goku never expressed any interest in seeing Freeza again in the original series. On the contrary, he explicitly says the opposite and spares him out of pure pity and empathy. I get your point, but it's only in RoF that Goku takes an interest in Freeza as a sparring partner and martial artist and you're recontextualizing their whole relationship based on this. Realistically, Goku should not have a soft spot for Freeza like he does in Super.

I'm not re-contextualizing their relationship, I'm comparing Freeza to other deadly enemies who excited Goku: contemptible bastards who seek to better themselves so they can shatter Goku's pride the next time they meet. Freeza doing this, just like those before him, would have been a natural place for things to go. They didn't go that way. A shame. Beginning with RoF things start down that way. Nice. "The one that got away" was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek way of expressing this idea from a reader's (my) perspective.

I don't think "redemption" is what I'm necessarily talking about here, but if it is, then I don't really think it's being cheapened. Not anymore than Piccolo going through this right after Tenshinhan, or Vegeta right after Piccolo. We know who they are and what they've done. If we want to say they've cheapened and overused the idea of redemption, I think we should be looking at the moment that the Great Demon King's own reincarnation became a lovable uncle, or the moment they started inviting Vegeta to Capsule Corp. cookouts.

---

As for Goku and Freeza's relationship, Goku said a lot of things on Namek. Yes, he told Freeza he never wanted to see him again. He also said Freeza should go off, get his strength back, and learn a few new attacks, if he wanted to settle things.

Then there's Goku's expression after he believes he's finished Freeza off:


Feels like you could read both regret and pity there. But even if we go purely with pity, then I think the original story already shows Goku having more of a "soft spot" for Freeza than anybody should.

[ABED]

If we want to say they've cheapened and overused the idea of redemption, I think we should be looking at the moment that the Great Demon King's own reincarnation became a lovable uncle, or the moment they started inviting Vegeta to Capsule Corp. cookouts.

They meant cheapen by overusing that trope. The great demon king's reincarnation had a soul which made him inherently different than his father. And Vegeta was only forgiven after a long road full of twists and turns, and giving up his life to protect others. It wasn't easy or cheap.

Goku absolutely doesn't have a soft spot for Freeza, especially not in that moment. He isn't showing remorse or regret. He's showing disgust and pity for the guy who after being given more chances than he deserved and a guaranteed out, still decided to be petty and try and kill Goku. Why would he have a soft spot for the man who murdered his best friend only a few minutes ago?

One thing I loved in Super was the sheer size of the Super Dragon. The Dragon Balls are planet size so the Dragon would be so unimaginably huge he would be impossible to comprehend. To do so they have to go into a weird mystical realm to be able to just perceive him. Such a cool idea.

[Toxin45]

Good question maybe the top ending and goku black introduction

[Skar]

I'm not re-contextualizing their relationship, I'm comparing Freeza to other deadly enemies who excited Goku: contemptible bastards who seek to better themselves so they can shatter Goku's pride the next time they meet. Freeza doing this, just like those before him, would have been a natural place for things to go. They didn't go that way. A shame. Beginning with RoF things start down that way. Nice. "The one that got away" was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek way of expressing this idea from a reader's (my) perspective.

I think a difference these previous antagonists began their redemption in the saga after they were defeated. Freeza was one of the more irredeemable villains since he was given a few chances on Namek and kept trying to kill Goku. After barely surviving Namek and becoming a cyborg, he immediately went to Earth for revenge with King Cold. We know Goku killed them in the future timeline and that was the end of Freeza's story in the original series.

He gets resurrected a few sagas later and once again goes to Earth for revenge immediately after a new powerup. I thought helping out against a bigger common enemy would be the beginning of his redemption like for Piccolo and Vegeta but he went for revenge a third time soon after being resurrected. I still thought it was unexpected for Gogeta to spare him since Vegeta definitely wouldn't and Goku was willing to kill him every other time he came for revenge.

I'm still confused where the story is going with Freeza in DBS. In the manga, he was more of a rival now since he only showed off his new form and didn't kill Goku and Vegeta when he had the chance. I think that was Toyotaro's idea so Toriyama might have something else in mind for the next time Freeza appears. Going by only the movies, he seemed to have kept to himself in the two or three years between Broly and SH. I assume his story would conclude before the ending since the world is at peace in EoZ and unlikely there would be any "lingering" threats out there.

[ChronoTwigger]

Best scenes?
-Gohan losing face in RoF retelling.
-Episode 5, Goku drawn by some outsource. Is a very important scene, as it tell people to lower their expectations a lot.
-Goku warm up before Botamo
-Goku Blue Kaiohken. Good as it came unpredicted, graphically was interesting, the opening theme in the background, the consequences make it more relevant than many other azzpulled stuff.
-Goku teleporting at Bulma house during /after/ before some "intimacy"
-Beerus straw.
-The whole fight against Monaka - Beerus
-Zamasu clinging Zamasu. Do you remember any intimate intercourse like this in the show?
-First SS Rosè appearanca (it was at least unpredictable)
-Zamasu bashed on the wall by a reverse punch
-Merged Zamasu decaying
-Jaco beating bandits at Zuno place
-Practically all Frieza scenes in ToP
-First Goku UI appearance

There's no really "best" episode, most of them are flawed by some outsourced art, bad dialogue, the overall bad pace of the arc and a general confusion about what to do next. Probably just the Baseball and Arale episodes are entirely good, as they were produced differently (wink wink).
Generally speaking, Super is an average show that offer just some good glimpses in an ocean of mediocre production. Anyway, quite better than many people lament, DB franchise had way worst moments in his history.

[Zephyr]

They meant cheapen by overusing that trope. The great demon king's reincarnation had a soul which made him inherently different than his father. And Vegeta was only forgiven after a long road full of twists and turns, and giving up his life to protect others. It wasn't easy or cheap.

Goku absolutely doesn't have a soft spot for Freeza, especially not in that moment. He isn't showing remorse or regret. He's showing disgust and pity for the guy who after being given more chances than he deserved and a guaranteed out, still decided to be petty and try and kill Goku. Why would he have a soft spot for the man who murdered his best friend only a few minutes ago?

And I was trying to explain why I disagree with the notion that what Freeza has gone through in Super, and the idea of him no longer actively seeking to kill Goku at all costs, constitutes "overusing" the trope of "enemy turned rival". Vegeta was "forgiven" enough to be at Capsule Corp. parties by the time Freeza and his dad showed up to Earth. I'm not saying I find that cheap, but if that's fine then I don't see much reason to take issue with how Freeza's being handled.

You'll notice that I put "soft spot" in quotes. We can agree to disagree on the meaning behind Goku's expression, but the point remains that giving Freeza the number of chances that he did (the man who murdered his best friend only a few minutes ago) is no less "inappropriate" than the way he regards Freeza in Super.

I thought helping out against a bigger common enemy would be the beginning of his redemption like for Piccolo and Vegeta but he went for revenge a third time soon after being resurrected. I still thought it was unexpected for Gogeta to spare him since Vegeta definitely wouldn't and Goku was willing to kill him every other time he came for revenge.

I'm still confused where the story is going with Freeza in DBS. In the manga, he was more of a rival now since he only showed off his new form and didn't kill Goku and Vegeta when he had the chance. I think that was Toyotaro's idea so Toriyama might have something else in mind for the next time Freeza appears. Going by only the movies, he seemed to have kept to himself in the two or three years between Broly and SH. I assume his story would conclude before the ending since the world is at peace in EoZ and unlikely there would be any "lingering" threats out there.

The notable thing to me in Broly is that he does go to Earth for revenge (again), but he doesn't decide to just blow the planet up once his plan is in shambles (again). To me that shows that simply blowing the planet up to kill Goku isn't good enough for him anymore. The way he showed off his new form but didn't kill Goku and Vegeta in the manga feels perfectly in line with that trajectory to me. People point to how "irredeemably evil" he is as a reason why this shouldn't be happening, but I feel like that's instead a reason why it's taken him so many times to begin this sort of arc.

Personally, I'm not expecting Freeza to be killed. I don't think he's going to become a "good guy", become Goku's friend, or hang out at Capsule Corp. for parties, but I don't think he's going to be a 'lingering threat' either. Just another guy who used to want Goku dead, but instead now wants to some day defeat Goku for the sake of his own pride and ego. While he did defeat Goku at the end of the Granola arc we're more than likely to see Goku defeat him the next time they fight. That could go back and forth any number of times before Super ends-ends, but by that point I expect Goku to be the most recent victor in that.

[Skar]

The notable thing to me in Broly is that he does go to Earth for revenge (again), but he doesn't decide to just blow the planet up once his plan is in shambles (again). To me that shows that simply blowing the planet up to kill Goku isn't good enough for him anymore.

I actually thought it was because Gogeta was there so Freeza didn't think he would get away with anything. When he tried destroying the Earth after Whis rewound time, Goku killed him so Gogeta would've also stopped him if he didn't quietly leave.

The way he showed off his new form but didn't kill Goku and Vegeta in the manga feels perfectly in line with that trajectory to me. People point to how "irredeemably evil" he is as a reason why this shouldn't be happening, but I feel like that's instead a reason why it's taken him so many times to begin this sort of arc.

What I meant is that Black Freeza was Toyotaro's idea so it might remain a manga only development. That presented Freeza as more of a rival since he did all that training and spared them in the end. In Broly, he had no intentional of fighting himself and hoping that Broly would kill them. We know in the manga continuity he trained and obtained a new form between Broly and SH but that might not apply to the movies since SH was likely already written before Black Freeza was a thing. Toriyama could have something else in mind and have him plotting revenge again for the last few years since Broly.

[ABED]

They meant cheapen by overusing that trope. The great demon king's reincarnation had a soul which made him inherently different than his father. And Vegeta was only forgiven after a long road full of twists and turns, and giving up his life to protect others. It wasn't easy or cheap.

Goku absolutely doesn't have a soft spot for Freeza, especially not in that moment. He isn't showing remorse or regret. He's showing disgust and pity for the guy who after being given more chances than he deserved and a guaranteed out, still decided to be petty and try and kill Goku. Why would he have a soft spot for the man who murdered his best friend only a few minutes ago?

And I was trying to explain why I disagree with the notion that what Freeza has gone through in Super, and the idea of him no longer actively seeking to kill Goku at all costs, constitutes "overusing" the trope of "enemy turned rival". Vegeta was "forgiven" enough to be at Capsule Corp. parties by the time Freeza and his dad showed up to Earth. I'm not saying I find that cheap, but if that's fine then I don't see much reason to take issue with how Freeza's being handled.

You'll notice that I put "soft spot" in quotes. We can agree to disagree on the meaning behind Goku's expression, but the point remains that giving Freeza the number of chances that he did (the man who murdered his best friend only a few minutes ago) is no less "inappropriate" than the way he regards Freeza in Super.

I thought helping out against a bigger common enemy would be the beginning of his redemption like for Piccolo and Vegeta but he went for revenge a third time soon after being resurrected. I still thought it was unexpected for Gogeta to spare him since Vegeta definitely wouldn't and Goku was willing to kill him every other time he came for revenge.

I'm still confused where the story is going with Freeza in DBS. In the manga, he was more of a rival now since he only showed off his new form and didn't kill Goku and Vegeta when he had the chance. I think that was Toyotaro's idea so Toriyama might have something else in mind for the next time Freeza appears. Going by only the movies, he seemed to have kept to himself in the two or three years between Broly and SH. I assume his story would conclude before the ending since the world is at peace in EoZ and unlikely there would be any "lingering" threats out there.

The notable thing to me in Broly is that he does go to Earth for revenge (again), but he doesn't decide to just blow the planet up once his plan is in shambles (again). To me that shows that simply blowing the planet up to kill Goku isn't good enough for him anymore. The way he showed off his new form but didn't kill Goku and Vegeta in the manga feels perfectly in line with that trajectory to me. People point to how "irredeemably evil" he is as a reason why this shouldn't be happening, but I feel like that's instead a reason why it's taken him so many times to begin this sort of arc.

Personally, I'm not expecting Freeza to be killed. I don't think he's going to become a "good guy", become Goku's friend, or hang out at Capsule Corp. for parties, but I don't think he's going to be a 'lingering threat' either. Just another guy who used to want Goku dead, but instead now wants to some day defeat Goku for the sake of his own pride and ego. While he did defeat Goku at the end of the Granola arc we're more than likely to see Goku defeat him the next time they fight. That could go back and forth any number of times before Super ends-ends, but by that point I expect Goku to be the most recent victor in that.

It's the sheer number of times that makes it an OVERuse of the trope. Each time is a variation, but it's the same trope. It's fine that it works for you, but I was more than fine with Freeza staying dead.

I like the Super scenes with Freeza fine, but I could've done without it.