Another live action thread (yes, I know)

[MasenkoHA]

Well, I can't argue with these points.

Adaptation is a tricky business to balance things. What to keep in, or leave out. How long things can be drawn out or shortened.

I think would have given the One Piece show 13 episodes and not 8, for a better pacing maybe. But that's the only change I think I would have made.

13 episodes for a show on streaming might be a bit excessive nowadays. Maybe 10?

13 is too many? FFS. For the record, my exasperation isn't aimed at you, but rather the state of TV. 13 episode should be the minimum on average. I highly doubt the shortening of the episode orders is purely artistically driven or even audience driven.

I think plenty of shows have done well with roughly 8 episodes per season. You are probably right it's a financial decision and not an artistic decision.

I also have to agree 13 is generally a good average for most shows and I don't think its excessive for streaming, as nobody is forced to watch all 13 episodes in one sitting. 13 episode seasons used to be the standard for streaming (and cable for that matter) Just off the top of my head Orange is the New Black, House of Card, and the Netflix Marvel shows all had 13 episode seasons and Bojack Horseman had 12 episodes a season aside from the final season being 16 episoses and split in two parts ala Sopranos.

[ABED]

I absolutely believe longer seasons would be better artistically for TV. I think we've seen the limits of the movie split up and called TV. 13 episodes at minimum is great bc it allows enough room to not just do a long movie but do something episodic and break form. Not everything has to be strictly about the plot. I'm sure I've said the opposite in the past, but tastes change and after experiencing the extremes of all one offs and superserialization, I've grown to see the strengths and weaknesses of both.

To keep this about DB, part of the issue I have with DB as it goes in is how so many of the episodes blend into each other, but that's more of a criticism of the later parts of the series. For a good chunk of the story, it does a good job of giving each episode an identity even within a serialized narrative.

DB would likely have an easier time adapting its story than One Piece which has a denser plot.

[FortuneSSJ]

I'm watching One Piece live action right now and it's a cool one. The casting of Luffy in particular is such a win. The actor is full of charisma and fits Luffy perfectly.

A good Dragon Ball live action can be done. Just like the other good ones needs budget and more important, passionate people who truly like and respect the source material. Also, if the original author is trying to give you some tips don't ignore him thinking you know better. Most times you don't.

[90sDBZ]

I really enjoyed Netflix's One Piece. It's been a while since I started the series and watched East Blue and Alabasta but it was very faithful from what I could tell. The acting and set designs were also done wonderfully. I wholeheartedly recommend it for anyone that hasn't got into One Piece as its quite newcomer friendly.

Don't know whether or not the success of the One Piece live action makes a Dragon Ball adaptation any more likely. I'd say at least a little bit, as Eiichiro Oda is a huge admirer of Toriyama and it would be natural for Netflix to go after his best known work and the property One Piece is considered a spiritual successor to next.

I've really enjoyed Netflix's One Piece too. I'd seen a lot of people being sceptical about it when it was first announced, but I kept an open mind and was really encouraged by the trailers and Oda's involvement. I feel like its won a lot of people over, and rightfully so. It's actually insane how close some of the scenes are to the anime/manga.

I think a lot of people still have a bad taste in their mouth from Dragon Ball Evolution. That movie was clearly made by people who couldn't care less about DB or its fans, while Netflix's One Piece is the polar opposite of that, going to great lengths to do the story and characters justice.

Evolution certainly didn't fail due to lack of interest. People wanted Live Action DB. They just wanted it to be actually good, which clearly wasn't the case. The success of One Piece should hopefully increase the chances of an actual good DB adaption.

[kemuri07]

I liked the One Piece live action series, as did most people I know who are more well versed in the series than I am. Luffy's Gum Gum Pistol naturally looked a bit weird, but everything else was really well done. The set pieces were beautiful, actors were good and well cast, contained all the plot beats I remembered from watching the first 45 episodes some time ago.

Apart from One Piece getting a second season (which isn't out of the question because it is #1 in many countries) the series that will be very telling about Dragon Ball getting a live action adaptation depending on both its success and critical reception is another wuxia - Yu Yu Hakusho. That drops in December.

Christ I completely forgot we’re getting Yu Yu Hakusho

[MasenkoHA]

I absolutely believe longer seasons would be better artistically for TV. I think we've seen the limits of the movie split up and called TV. 13 episodes at minimum is great bc it allows enough room to not just do a long movie but do something episodic and break form. Not everything has to be strictly about the plot. I'm sure I've said the opposite in the past, but tastes change and after experiencing the extremes of all one offs and superserialization, I've grown to see the strengths and weaknesses of both.

To keep this about DB, part of the issue I have with DB as it goes in is how so many of the episodes blend into each other, but that's more of a criticism of the later parts of the series. For a good chunk of the story, it does a good job of giving each episode an identity even within a serialized narrative.

DB would likely have an easier time adapting its story than One Piece which has a denser plot.

It would depend on how much ground they're trying to cover I suppose. The first Dragon Ball movie managed to condense 13 episodes/23 chapters into a 50 minute movie. Though obviously the issue with that movie is they tried to cram too much in, but 4 episodes running an hour long would be more than enough material to cover the first arc. If they wantes to cover the Son Goku arc and the Tenkaichi Tournament arc 8 episodes might be a bit tight, but possibly do-able. 13 would definitely be more than enough.

[MasenkoHA]

I absolutely believe longer seasons would be better artistically for TV. I think we've seen the limits of the movie split up and called TV. 13 episodes at minimum is great bc it allows enough room to not just do a long movie but do something episodic and break form. Not everything has to be strictly about the plot. I'm sure I've said the opposite in the past, but tastes change and after experiencing the extremes of all one offs and superserialization, I've grown to see the strengths and weaknesses of both.

To keep this about DB, part of the issue I have with DB as it goes in is how so many of the episodes blend into each other, but that's more of a criticism of the later parts of the series. For a good chunk of the story, it does a good job of giving each episode an identity even within a serialized narrative.

DB would likely have an easier time adapting its story than One Piece which has a denser plot.

It would depend on how much ground they're trying to cover I suppose. The first Dragon Ball movie managed to condense 13 episodes/23 chapters into a 50 minute movie. Though obviously the issue with that movie is they tried to cram too much in, but 4 episodes running an hour long would be more than enough material to cover the first arc. If they wanted to cover the Son Goku arc and the Tenkaichi Tournament arc 8 episodes might be a bit tight, but possibly do-able. 13 would definitely be more than enough.

[JulieYBM]

I'm looking forward to the Yuu Yuu Hakusho series. I believe that it's being done by a Japanese production crew.

Alice in Borderland also had a really good adaption. The directing, CG and acting really impressed me when I watched it on Netflix a few months ago.

[YoungDefender]

Selfishly I would prefer if they tested out a live-action Dragon Ball through an adaption of one of the non-canonical films and not the series proper. If they do Dead Zone and it's great then awesome, they know what they are doing and they can try to adapt Dragon Ball, DBZ or whatever else they want. If they adapt Dead Zone and it turns out terrible then at least you can cut your losses there and sort of control the damage in a way to just that non-canonical film entity,

[90sDBZ]

I definitely think it's possible to have too many episodes in a season for a show. It's a common complaint I hear from people who give up on shows.

I remember watching some of the Netflix Marvel shows which were mostly all 12-13 episodes a season. Daredevil was awesome, but some of the others felt unnecessarily padded out for the sake of meeting the episode count. Both Punisher and the later seasons of Jessica Jones had some really boring episodes in the middle.

Obviously DB has a firmly established long story to follow, and there's no shortage of interesting content to adapt. If it's done well they probably could get away with longer seasons. Personally I don't think 13 live action episodes for just the Pilaf arc would go down well. The Tournament arc is when things really took off, so at least half of season 1 should cover that.

Also the length of each individual episode is a factor. If an episode is going to be a full hour it needs stuff happening that justifies the run time. Breaking Bad is a good example of a show that got this right. The average episode was around the 45 minute mark, but the major ones were closer to an hour, with some going over. Nothing on that show ever felt like filler.

[kemuri07]

The problem isn't necessarily that there's too many episodes, but it's more like the writers involved aren't experienced enough writing for an episodic series. Most shows these days are written as if they are 8 hour movies as opposed to 8 45 min episodes. Because of this a lot of these shows often suffer from bloat or pacing issues.

Breaking Bad is one of the chief examples of creatives knowing how to write for TV. Vince Gilligan wrote for X-Files long before he created BB, and his experience shows, hence why Breaking Bad's episodic structure is very tight and efficient.


I've only watched two episodes of OP LA, and so far it feels like the writers made some really smart choices in how to make, what is a 20 min anime, work as a 50 min tv show.

[miguelnuva1]

I'm going to assume Netflix would do this so 8 45 minute episode format.

Ep 1: Goku meets Bulma, saves her from bandits(I think Goku beating a gang here would be better) Dragonballs explained. Pialf introduced. Finally Goku saves Turtle.

Ep2: Goku meets Roshi, Goku beats the bear bandit, Goku and Bulma defeat Oolong. Bulma would.gice Roshi a hug(maybe a kiss here instead of a peek.)

Ep 3: the two Yamacha desert episodes are combined.

Ep 4: arrival at fire mountain, Goku vs Ox King, Goku meets Chichi. Yamcha meets Chichi arrive at Roshis.

Ep 5: Roshi arrives, instead of a walk with Bulma he asks Goku to train with him instead for putting out the fire. This episode we learn at the Kamehameha wave and Goku uses it. Goku and Chichi have their marriage promise.

Ep 6: Yamacha joins the group and they fight Pilaf. Pilaf steals the Dragonballs and summons Shenron.

Ep 7: Oolong steals the wish, wishing for a new hat or maybe Turkey bacon. Anyway Oozaru is here and we end the Pilaf saga.

Episode 8: Goku goes to train with Roshi, he meets Kuririn, they find Launch and Roshi explains the Tenkaichi Budokai is 1 year away and they will train for it.

[ABED]

I definitely think it's possible to have too many episodes in a season for a show. It's a common complaint I hear from people who give up on shows.

I remember watching some of the Netflix Marvel shows which were mostly all 12-13 episodes a season. Daredevil was awesome, but some of the others felt unnecessarily padded out for the sake of meeting the episode count. Both Punisher and the later seasons of Jessica Jones had some really boring episodes in the middle.

Obviously DB has a firmly established long story to follow, and there's no shortage of interesting content to adapt. If it's done well they probably could get away with longer seasons. Personally I don't think 13 live action episodes for just the Pilaf arc would go down well. The Tournament arc is when things really took off, so at least half of season 1 should cover that.

Also the length of each individual episode is a factor. If an episode is going to be a full hour it needs stuff happening that justifies the run time. Breaking Bad is a good example of a show that got this right. The average episode was around the 45 minute mark, but the major ones were closer to an hour, with some going over. Nothing on that show ever felt like filler.

The problem wasn't too many episodes. It was too many episodes for what felt like a movie cut up into episodes. Any episode count can work if you have the right structure. And Punisher suffered from telling the same arc every single season. How many times can we see him become the Punisher?

Filler isn't inherently bad and I hate that the term took on a pejorative meaning. Not everything has to be about plot. One of the best episodes of TV I've ever seen is Buffy's The Zeppo. It didn't further the seasonal arc at all, but it did delve into one of the lead character's journey. One of the things I love most about the Pilaf arc is that each chapter/episode was an individual adventure until it got closer to the end.

I feel like there's also a push back from the audience on one long movie. Thank god. Let TV be TV and movies be movies.

As for 45 minutes, I agree to an extent. Episodes that are longer than 55 always worry me as they tend to be structurally wonky. Even for DB, doing more than 24 feels like a gamble since there's a rhythm to them. This also feels like something that would be money driven and not artistically driven. If i recall, pay is determined on a per episode basis, not screentime.

And from a pure aesthetic standpoint, give me color. I don't necessarily want it to look like the Speed Racer movie, but I'm tired of muted color palettes. Life has color. The Ginyu Force is based off Super Sentai. They should be colorful.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I think ABED doesnt know each episode lasts a solid hour.

[JulieYBM]

I absolutely believe longer seasons would be better artistically for TV. I think we've seen the limits of the movie split up and called TV. 13 episodes at minimum is great bc it allows enough room to not just do a long movie but do something episodic and break form. Not everything has to be strictly about the plot. I'm sure I've said the opposite in the past, but tastes change and after experiencing the extremes of all one offs and superserialization, I've grown to see the strengths and weaknesses of both.

To keep this about DB, part of the issue I have with DB as it goes in is how so many of the episodes blend into each other, but that's more of a criticism of the later parts of the series. For a good chunk of the story, it does a good job of giving each episode an identity even within a serialized narrative.

DB would likely have an easier time adapting its story than One Piece which has a denser plot.

It would depend on how much ground they're trying to cover I suppose. The first Dragon Ball movie managed to condense 13 episodes/23 chapters into a 50 minute movie. Though obviously the issue with that movie is they tried to cram too much in, but 4 episodes running an hour long would be more than enough material to cover the first arc. If they wanted to cover the Son Goku arc and the Tenkaichi Tournament arc 8 episodes might be a bit tight, but possibly do-able. 13 would definitely be more than enough.

Oh, it's not hard at all, so long as you make some strong changes. If we assume that each episode is 60 minutes long (no commercials) and the series takes a page from the 10th Anniversary Movie by combining the Hunt for the Dragon Balls arc with the Red Ribbon Army arc I think that it's very possible to accomplish the story in even just eight hours. Even if a mostly panel-for-panel adaption was done (which I would hope not), your average episode should be able to cover at least four chapters of the comic in 20-ish minutes. A full hour-long episode should easily be able to adapt a full volume of the comic, especially if you make creative writing decisions to clip down plot beats a bit for more efficient work.

[ABED]

There's not that many plot beats in most DB arcs. DB arc aren't densely plotted.

I think ABED doesnt know each episode lasts a solid hour.

What are we talking about here? Each episode of what? This hypothetical DB adaptation? One Piece?

Regarding Julie's point about how much material could be covered per episode, the point isn't to cover as much ground, it's to get the audience to emotionally invest which often requires moments to breathe, not hit a bunch of plot points from a check list. Sticking a whole bunch of chapters together into one episode doesn't strike me as a good idea.

[Cure Dragon 255]

There's not that many plot beats in most DB arcs. DB arc aren't densely plotted.

I think ABED doesnt know each episode lasts a solid hour.

What are we talking about here? Each episode of what? This hypothetical DB adaptation? One Piece?

Regarding Julie's point about how much material could be covered per episode, the point isn't to cover as much ground, it's to get the audience to emotionally invest which often requires moments to breathe, not hit a bunch of plot points from a check list. Sticking a whole bunch of chapters together into one episode doesn't strike me as a good idea.

One Piece, which literally lasts an hour, not just 45 minutes separated by ads. And that was what was being discussed and this is why 8 episodes are enough. But if the episodes were shorter I agree with having 13 or 26 episodes.

[ABED]

There's not that many plot beats in most DB arcs. DB arc aren't densely plotted.

I think ABED doesnt know each episode lasts a solid hour.

What are we talking about here? Each episode of what? This hypothetical DB adaptation? One Piece?

Regarding Julie's point about how much material could be covered per episode, the point isn't to cover as much ground, it's to get the audience to emotionally invest which often requires moments to breathe, not hit a bunch of plot points from a check list. Sticking a whole bunch of chapters together into one episode doesn't strike me as a good idea.

One Piece, which literally lasts an hour, not just 45 minutes separated by ads. And that was what was being discussed and this is why 8 episodes are enough. But if the episodes were shorter I agree with having 13 or 26 episodes.

I did know that.

Even with 8 episodes, drastic changes had to be made to fit how much material into a far shorter season regardless if it's 45 minutes or 60.

[Cure Dragon 255]

There's not that many plot beats in most DB arcs. DB arc aren't densely plotted.

What are we talking about here? Each episode of what? This hypothetical DB adaptation? One Piece?

Regarding Julie's point about how much material could be covered per episode, the point isn't to cover as much ground, it's to get the audience to emotionally invest which often requires moments to breathe, not hit a bunch of plot points from a check list. Sticking a whole bunch of chapters together into one episode doesn't strike me as a good idea.

One Piece, which literally lasts an hour, not just 45 minutes separated by ads. And that was what was being discussed and this is why 8 episodes are enough. But if the episodes were shorter I agree with having 13 or 26 episodes.

I did know that.

Even with 8 episodes, drastic changes had to be made to fit how much material into a far shorter season regardless if it's 45 minutes or 60.

Then to that I have to say Are you for real? You seriously are expecting the crew to work and do material that is like 13 or 26 hours long!? Do you seriously not see how messed up that is?

[JulieYBM]

You should absolutely make drastic changes for an adaption, because Dragon Ball is not a perfect work, and adaptions should improve upon the work as well as incorporate the ideas of the people adapting the work. Giving the series an actual emotional and character arcs would definitely be the next logical line.