Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Seekeroftruth wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 6:37 am
As the dynamic of relationship changes ,aka becoming husband/wife and parents, many women expect the man to change, become more responsible and put the needs of their family first. However, Goku did not change and remain the same, carefree guy that Chichi first met in Dragon Ball.
Haha, most women will leave/divorce you the first second when she succesfully "domesticated"/changed you. That's why most marriage ends up in divorce because you (man) will not be same person that the women fallen love in the first place. As a man you should NEVER change too much, and never allow women to have power over you, that way you will be far more interesting to women and the relationship will keep it's dynamic.
As for Dragon Ball Chi Chi very much aware of this that she can't change Goku but thats WHY she loves him so much, he remained the same carefree guy and no power is able to change this in him.
Got any data on that or have you been divorced over a 100 times? Because this sounds like manosphere talk.
peterx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:01 amHaha, most women will leave/divorce you the first second when she succesfully "domesticated"/changed you. That's why most marriage ends up in divorce because you (man) will not be same person that the women fallen love in the first place. As a man you should NEVER change too much, and never allow women to have power over you, that way you will be far more interesting to women and the relationship will keep it's dynamic.
actually, most of us women will dump you if you're a weirdo who goes around talking about women like they're trying to 'change' you.
also, most women get stuck in loveless marriages because society pressures them to stay in said marriages due to no guarantee of housing and financial aid. guarantee that everyone will always have a home, a UBI, and healthcare. guarantee those things and we'll divorce men who act like weird little freaks about us even faster
peterx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:01 amHaha, most women will leave/divorce you the first second when she succesfully "domesticated"/changed you. That's why most marriage ends up in divorce because you (man) will not be same person that the women fallen love in the first place. As a man you should NEVER change too much, and never allow women to have power over you, that way you will be far more interesting to women and the relationship will keep it's dynamic.
actually, most of us women will dump you if you're a weirdo who goes around talking about women like they're trying to 'change' you.
also, most women get stuck in loveless marriages because society pressures them to stay in said marriages due to no guarantee of housing and financial aid. guarantee that everyone will always have a home, a UBI, and healthcare. guarantee those things and we'll divorce men who act like weird little freaks about us even faster
Of course you don't talk about this.. it's a mindset that you will never give up your core beliefs and habits for anyone's sake. You only change if you yourself want to change. This is true for men and women alike.
And why is that marriage is loveless in the first place? Maybe because one gave up too much personality and became a boring idiot in the other's eye? This is what I'm talking about.. never change your original personality, the one that once attracted the other like a magnet.
peterx wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:01 amHaha, most women will leave/divorce you the first second when she succesfully "domesticated"/changed you. That's why most marriage ends up in divorce because you (man) will not be same person that the women fallen love in the first place. As a man you should NEVER change too much, and never allow women to have power over you, that way you will be far more interesting to women and the relationship will keep it's dynamic.
actually, most of us women will dump you if you're a weirdo who goes around talking about women like they're trying to 'change' you.
also, most women get stuck in loveless marriages because society pressures them to stay in said marriages due to no guarantee of housing and financial aid. guarantee that everyone will always have a home, a UBI, and healthcare. guarantee those things and we'll divorce men who act like weird little freaks about us even faster
Of course you don't talk about this.. it's a mindset that you will never give up your core beliefs and habits for anyone's sake. You only change if you yourself want to change. This is true for men and women alike.
And why is that marriage is loveless in the first place? Maybe because one gave up too much personality and became a boring idiot in the other's eye? This is what I'm talking about.. never change your original personality, the one that once attracted the other like a magnet.
The marriage is loveless not because most women 'changed' the men. That's just you being weird about women.
Our society pushes people to get married and fit into a nuclear family that not everyone is suited for. To blame the historically oppressed gender (in this case, speficially women) and say that they've 'forced men to change' is a frankly insane, sweeping accusation to make that only paints you as a misogynist.
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:09 pm
The marriage is loveless not because most women 'changed' the men. That's just you being weird about women.
Our society pushes people to get married and fit into a nuclear family that not everyone is suited for. To blame the historically oppressed gender (in this case, speficially women) and say that they've 'forced men to change' is a frankly insane, sweeping accusation to make that only paints you as a misogynist.
As far as I know, nowadays every couple has the choice to get married or not. Women have this choice just like men, and they have every right to reject it too. And who cares about society what is "their" opinion in this case.. it's your life and your decision only.
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:09 pm
The marriage is loveless not because most women 'changed' the men. That's just you being weird about women.
Our society pushes people to get married and fit into a nuclear family that not everyone is suited for. To blame the historically oppressed gender (in this case, speficially women) and say that they've 'forced men to change' is a frankly insane, sweeping accusation to make that only paints you as a misogynist.
As far as I know, nowadays every couple has the choice to get married or not. Women have this choice just like men, and they have every right to reject it too. And who cares about society what is "their" opinion in this case.. it's your life and your decision only.
People are still being raised to think that they have to get married and follow 'traditional gender roles'. We don't live in some fantasy world were we've all escaped that bullshit, either because of how we're raised, or how our economies and social safety nets are rigged to keep as many people in these rigged traditional frameworks to sustain centuries-old White Supremacy and patriarchy.
Our societies are rigged like a pyrimid scheme. The more oppressed you are, the more subservient you're damned to be to the group just barely above you in the pyrimid.
Goku and Chi Chi's problem is more a narrative, writing-related one than anything else, really. Toriyama wants us to see them as a couple who bickers or has differences or even bothers each other, but ultimately still love each other. I fully believe this boomer-ass relationship dynamic is the intended get. And clearly, if I can tolerate Homer and Marge Simpson, I can take a couple that was constructed less-cynically (or at least Toriyama's brand of cynicism doesn't jump out at me the way 90s Matt Groening's did).
The issue is that the narrative never lets them breathe, as a dynamic. We got Goku and Chi Chi filler episodes back in the day, but most of them revolved around Chi Chi yelling at Goku to do something he isn't used to or doesn't want to do. Pretty much the only time when I find them to be a likable couple is in their little arc after the Piccolo Jr. fight, probably because it was before Toriyama started writing her as a neurotic helicopter mom, which Toei took waaaaay too far. We simply don't see them in the situations or behaviors that lead them to like each other, even though I don't think the series is trying to tell us those things don't exist.
Part of this is that I don't think many of the creative forces on the series have a lot of respect for Chi Chi as an autonomous person. She's not someone who gets her own arcs or relationships, it's pretty much all about Goku, and since it's all about Goku, the story has to in some way side with what he wants, which is often the opposite of what his wife wants.
This doesn't really exist with the other couples, which is why Goku and Chi Chi are basically the worst couple in the series. Krillin and 18 seem to get along great, and while I think Gohan and Videl are boring as shit as adults, they have enough trust and mutual respect that they don't ever seem to get in each other's way (I really like that Super episode where they try to blackmail Gohan with a photo of that girl forcefully kissing him but Videl completely shuts them down with that "do you honestly think I'm just gonna assume he's cheating on me and not ask followup questions" bit). Bulma seems genuinely charmed by a lot of Vegeta's shtick, rather than annoyed by it like Chi-Chi, and all three of these characters have one or more prominent side characters that they had a meaningful established relationship to beforehand. All Chi Chi gets is Ox King, and I couldn't tell you a damn thing about what that father and daughter think of each other, they barely share any scenes that aren't fundamentally about someone else to begin with.
So no, I don't think Goku and Chi Chi should be divorced, I think someone needs to inject some life back into Chi Chi specifically and be willing to put her and Goku into a situation where they can actually enjoy each other's company, to prove that such a thing is actually a regular occurrence in the series at all. She just seems miserable, and Goku isn't smart enough to pick up on it.
Someone must be happily married before talking about what marriage is.
And this post show exactly why ChiChi and Goku are a perfect couple, while Vegeta and Bulma got no reasons to get along.
Goku is not a bad husband. Is just broke and unable to collect money. That doesn't qualify you as a bad husband. 90% of people in our world is poor the same, and get married the same.
Goku care for ChiChi feelings. He's very respectful. Despite being able to shake universes, he let ChiChi de-stress on him. Goku care for the situation, he listen for ChiChi clamings and at least try to solve issues, even with no avail. Is the same exact situation of 90% of human beings.
ChiChi care of Goku. She's in pain when he leave. She want for him to be better. She never do moral blackmails on him. She cook a lot for him, probably the best dishes, and care for the beloved kids they own.
Probably they love each other very intensely, the kind of subcon love that make you miss all of her angry shouts when she's not around.
You get married to share problems, not to live happily ever after.
I learned english listening to songs. So I don't know anything about. The day you had to learn play piano by just listening .mp3, you'll understand.
I was getting depressed by the emptyness of everything when I remembered I had some kanzenshuu notifications for quite a while pending so here we go:
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Sadly DBS Anime ruined Chi Chi as a character and she became a spoiled brat that has to be her way. Doesn't allow Goten to train or fight in anyway. Goten isn't allowed to compete with Goku in anyway, isn't allowed to spar with him or travel to another planet to train.
Chi Chi didn't allow Gohan to choose how to raise Pan, Chi Chi locked Gohan out of the room. She wanted only herself, Bulma (not blood related) and Videl to make the choice how to raise Pan. Talk about control freak.
Chi Chi even forced Kuririn to do Goku job.
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Anyone who believes DBS or even DBZ anime filler Chichi is her true personality, anyone who has not read the manga and is unfamiliar with japanese housewives and their culture, can't be taken seriously when talking about Chichi so I simply don't mind about those people.
Goten had to be dead at age 7 in order for him to go train with goku, you mean denying a child from experimenting growing up and having a normal life in exchange for a powerful warrior? He is half human.
About the not letting Gohan rise Pan... I guess you are talking about DBS. In DBZ end of Z episodes you can see Gohan works from home doing scientific research about biology ( you can see darwin books among others in the shelves) so Gohan is very involved with Pan. After Goku left Pan would fly to the city (hence her urban clothes in DBGT) but she is seen helping police when they are robbibg a bank so Gohan's teachings are present there, she is still a good child.
Life is good when you talk about dragon ball with strangers on the internet.
Saiya6Cit wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:39 pm
Anyone who believes DBS or even DBZ anime filler Chichi is her true personality, anyone who has not read the manga and is unfamiliar with japanese housewives and their culture, can't be taken seriously when talking about Chichi so I simply don't mind about those people.
Goten had to be dead at age 7 in order for him to go train with goku, you mean denying a child from experimenting growing up and having a normal life in exchange for a powerful warrior? He is half human.
About the not letting Gohan rise Pan... I guess you are talking about DBS. In DBZ end of Z episodes you can see Gohan works from home doing scientific research about biology ( you can see darwin books among others in the shelves) so Gohan is very involved with Pan. After Goku left Pan would fly to the city (hence her urban clothes in DBGT) but she is seen helping police when they are robbibg a bank so Gohan's teachings are present there, she is still a good child.
Life is good when you talk about dragon ball with strangers on the internet.
Chi Chi didn't lose any development in the Buu Saga, Yo Son Goku Ova and BoG. Chi Chi didn't place any ban on fighting, training and competition. She even allowed Goku, Gohan and Goten to fight villains.
Basically anime, manga, ova and movie Chi Chi was great. Filler didn't ruin Chi Chi at all.
Now DBS Anime they completely ruin Chi Chi as a character. Goten wants to be a powerful skillful fighter, that should be his right.
Goku as a father should have a right to decide what he can do also, which Chi Chi see he shouldn't be allowed to do anything.
Yes I am talking about DBS, when Chi Chi locked herself and Pan. Gohan had the right to raise Pan how he wanted thanks to Videl, otherwise Chi Chi wouldn't allow it.
Jiren The Alpha wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:28 am
Let's be real, people are only Chi Chi fans when they want to shit on Toei lol. Because when she is not on screen, no one cares or remember her.
Goku and Chi Chi love each other, that has been proven many times in filler and canon and that's more then enough in the weird world of Dragon Ball.
Chi Chi screen time in the anime and manga of Buu Saga, Yo Son Goku Ova and BoG was positive.
Chi Chi screen time in the anime of DBS was terrible.
- Chi Chi controlling Goku, ignoring what he wants.
- Chi Chi controlling Goten, ignoring what he wants.
- Chi Chi wanted to control Pan like she is the mother.
- Chi Chi wanted to force others to do Goku job, like she is a queen.
Chi Chi just gets in everyone way, she is a spoiled brat who throw tantrum and everyone to do as she wants.
Toei deserves to get criticised for ruining both Chi Chi and Goku. Maybe Toei fans should stop defending bad writing.
Goten is a weak loser thank to Chi Chi.
Edit Toei does make good anime, but DBS isn't one of them.
I wonder, did Goku just never collect a reward (prize money) for his victory at the 23rd Budokai? Because it seems like he left too early.
Either that or it was blown away along with the venue.
He would probably have been set for life otherwise.
