Where would you rank Super perfect cell power relative to SSJ2 Gohan?

[Seekeroftruth]

In their fight, Gohan was stated to have lost more than 1/2 his ki, had a broken arm and was talking to his dead father for a pep talk. Cell was 100% serious and ready to kill Gohan and all of the solar system. When their beams struck, Cell had more time to charge up his attack and yet we saw the beams initially lock dead even when they hit. Piccolo states Gohan is weaker and losing fast. Goku tells Gohan that he still has more power and that he doesn't need to hold back since the dragon balls can fix any damage he does to the Earth. At that moment, Vegeta fires off a ki attack that distracts cell momentarily. Gohan unleashes his full power and cell can do nothing to push it back. The attack destroys cell completely and he dies.

Some fans believe that despite, Gohan being used as a bench mark of power that Super perfect cell is still stronger. Others think their equal based on cell being able to injure Gohan's arm with an attack meant to kill Vegeta. Others think that Cell was significantly weaker given that even with 50% power, cell could not outright overwhelm Gohan's ki attack and got completely destroyed once gohan used 100% of his full power.

What % of Gohan's power would you say is Super Perfect cell max? Example, would you say cell is 65%, 70%, 80% of SSJ2 Gohan's max or maybe you think he's stronger than Gohan.

[Psajdak]

How could he destroy the entire solar system if his Kamehameha was only in front of him?

[theherodjl]

The manga & anime have somewhat different depictions of the beam clash so it would probably be better to just go with the manga, as it is the quicker, simplified version.
It's made clear that half of SSJ2 Gohan's power(essentially, his SSJ form) was inferior to SPC, and Perfect Cell as well for that matter. It's worth noting that SSJ Gohan was able to manage something against ~70% of Perfect Cell's strength, though he was still inferior. Cell's power-up was enough to injure SSJ2 Gohan, meaning they're close but I'd still give it to Gohan as his full power beam completely overwhelmed & disintegrated SPC.
I'd put it like this.
SSJ Gohan: 67
Perfect Cell: 70(holding back some), 100(max)
SSJ2 Gohan: 134
SPC: 120

IMO, Super Perfect Cell was roughly 90% of SSJ2 Gohan.

[funrush]

The way I see it, if 100% full power Super Perfect Cell cannot beat a weakened and injured SSJ2 Gohan, he is significantly weaker than Gohan.

Cell's zenkai boost took him from being paper mache for Gohan to rip to shreds, up to a worthy opponent that just falls a bit short.

[Bloodthroe]

Multiple guides state that SPC was equal to or slightly stronger than Gohan.

Goku made it clear that Gohan did not lose 50% of his power. He only lost his confidence. Once he got a pep talk from Goku, he got his power back.

Gohan was only able to win, because Vegeta created a distraction. I hope that clears things up.

[Seekeroftruth]

Multiple guides state that SPC was equal to or slightly stronger than Gohan.

Goku made it clear that Gohan did not lose 50% of his power. He only lost his confidence. Once he got a pep talk from Goku, he got his power back.

Gohan was only able to win, because Vegeta created a distraction. I hope that clears things up.

Most of what you wrote is false though. Herms strength checker even shows that Gohan did lose quite a bit of power. Gohan was also distracted talking to dead people. Cell being hit by an attack by base vegeta would not have caused any real change to the fight; it's like saying a mosquito biting you caused you to lose the fight.

[Galan007]

Cell being hit by an attack by base vegeta would not have caused any real change to the fight; it's like saying a mosquito biting you caused you to lose the fight.

This isn't exactly accurate.

Attacks from weaker characters can injure/distract stronger characters IF the latter is unprepared at the time. Sorbet's ring laser vs. Goku is obviously a prime example, but there are others -- that was actually one of Whis's main instruction points earlier in DBS, when he first started training with Goku and Vegeta.

[Seekeroftruth]

Cell being hit by an attack by base vegeta would not have caused any real change to the fight; it's like saying a mosquito biting you caused you to lose the fight.

This isn't exactly accurate.

Attacks from weaker characters can injure/distract stronger characters IF the latter is unprepared at the time. Sorbet's ring laser vs. Goku is obviously a prime example, but there are others -- that was actually one of Whis's main instruction points earlier in DBS, when he first started training with Goku and Vegeta.

Different is that in those incidences, the character was not powered up. Cell was at full power ENGAGING IN A BEAM STRUGGLE. We saw with vegeta and krillin (During frieza arc) that if a character lowers their power too much or is relax even an attack from a much weaker opponent can kill them. That blast from vegeta makes no difference.

[Galan007]

That blast from vegeta makes no difference.

Except... It did.

Granted Vegeta's blast didn't harm/damage SPC, but it was obviously sufficient enough to distract Cell(because he was unprepared for the attack at the time), which subsequently provided Gohan with the precious moment he needed to dig deep and definitively overpower him... So I suppose the bigger question is: could Gohan have still prevailed without said interference? Personally I'd like to think so, but it's hard to say with any kind of certainty. /shrug

[Seekeroftruth]

That blast from vegeta makes no difference.

Except... It did.

Granted Vegeta's blast didn't harm/damage SPC, but it was obviously sufficient enough to distract Cell, thereby providing Gohan with the precious moment he needed to dig deep and definitively overpower him... So I suppose the bigger question is: could Gohan have still prevailed without said interference? Personally I'd like to think so, but it's hard to say with any kind of certainty. /shrug

How does cell being momentarily distracted become a factor? If we consider that then we should acknowledge that gohan was also distracted having conversation with goku. Gohan digging deep is not any increase or extra power, it's the power he always had from the beginning that he was intentionally holding back due to fear of damaging the planet.

[Galan007]

How does cell being momentarily distracted become a factor?

Because it was then...and only then...that Gohan unleashed his full power. And Goku explicitly prompted him to do so in that moment(ie. "NOW!!!"), because he also saw the brief opening in Cell's defense that was provided by Vegeta's cheap-shot.

Not saying that Gohan would have been incapable of beating Cell without said distraction, but that was certainly the best chance he had at the time.

If we consider that then we should acknowledge that gohan was also distracted having conversation with goku.

Not the same at all, imo.

Gohan was focused on Cell the entire time -- Goku was just trying to gently push him into unleashing all of his power throughout the struggle. Conversely, when Vegeta struck Cell with his energy blast, Cell was entirely distracted from the beam-struggle for a brief moment(he completely looked away from Gohan in order to see where Vegeta was at)... And that is when Gohan unloaded everything he had left in the tank.

Gohan digging deep is not any increase or extra power, it's the power he always had from the beginning that he was intentionally holding back due to fear of damaging the planet.

I never said that it was "extra power". However, the fact remains that Gohan never fully unleashed all of his power until after Vegeta distracted Cell. Hence why I believe that it's hard to say with any kind of certainty whether or not Gohan would have still come out on top if Vegeta hadn't interfered. But I digress...


...Anywho, the whole point I was making is that attacks from weaker characters can injure/distract far more powerful characters. It's admittedly circumstantial, but still possible... Heck, we saw it as recently as Krillin vs. Cell Max. /shrug

[Seekeroftruth]

How does cell being momentarily distracted become a factor?

Because it was then...and only then...that Gohan unleashed his full power. And Goku explicitly prompted him to do so in that moment(ie. "NOW!!!"), because he also saw the brief opening in Cell's defense that was provided by Vegeta's cheap-shot.

Not saying that Gohan would have been incapable of beating Cell without said distraction, but that was certainly the best chance he had at the time.

If we consider that then we should acknowledge that gohan was also distracted having conversation with goku.

Not the same at all, imo.

Gohan was focused on Cell the entire time -- Goku was just trying to gently push him into unleashing all of his power throughout the struggle. Conversely, when Vegeta struck Cell with his energy blast, Cell was entirely distracted from the beam-struggle for a brief moment(he completely looked away from Gohan in order to see where Vegeta was at)... And that is when Gohan unloaded everything he had left in the tank.

Gohan digging deep is not any increase or extra power, it's the power he always had from the beginning that he was intentionally holding back due to fear of damaging the planet.

I never said that it was "extra power". However, the fact remains that Gohan never fully unleashed all of his power until after Vegeta distracted Cell. Hence why I believe that it's hard to say with any kind of certainty whether or not Gohan would have still come out on top if Vegeta hadn't interfered. But I digress...


...Anywho, the whole point I was making is that attacks from weaker characters can injure/distract far more powerful characters. It's admittedly circumstantial, but still possible... Heck, we saw it as recently as Krillin vs. Cell Max. /shrug

Except that wasn't the case. Goku throughout the entire fight was telling gohan to unleash his full power. He was not only telling gohan to do so at the moment vegeta struck cell. Vegeta hitting cell in no way weakened cell to such an amount that it swayed the battle. Recall, cell took a full barrage from SSJ Vegeta (enraged) without taking damage. So i fail to see how a much weaker vegeta would caused an even more powered up version of cell to become weaker. The instances in which you mention of weaker characters doing damage to stronger ones have always come about due to said character lowering their PL enough to be injured or being hit by attacks that specifically ignores defense of characters.

Vegeta hitting cell with his attack is equivalent to when gohan and krillin struck frieza with ki blast while exhausted. It merely provided mild distraction but in no way weakened or alter the outcome a fight. Cell being overpowered by gohan's full power was going to happen even if vegeta didn't intervene. When cell fired off his ki attack, he was using 100% of his power, and going for the kill. We are told from Gohan what his power output is (which was 50%).

Thus, Cell going all out can't overpower and completely destroy a gohan who is distracted, demoralize, weakened and injured in one go. There attack hit dead even with gohan losing and piccolo confirming that he is the weaker of the two in that moment. We then see what happens when gohan unleashes his full power. Cell is unable to mount any kind of defense. Vegeta distracting him for a brief moment is a non-factor.

[Galan007]

Except that wasn't the case. Goku throughout the entire fight was telling gohan to unleash his full power. He was not only telling gohan to do so at the moment vegeta struck cell.

It was indeed the case.

Goku was gently pushing Gohan into utilizing his full power against Cell throughout the beam-struggle... But Gohan never actually did so until the exact moment when Cell was distracted by Vegeta's attack, and Goku exclaimed "NOW!!!"

Vegeta hitting cell in no way weakened cell to such an amount that it swayed the battle.

I never said Vegeta's blast "weakened" Cell, but it certainly "distracted" him, and from that perspective logically did help sway the battle to at least some extent(as distractions tend to do.)

It merely provided mild distraction but in no way weakened or alter the outcome a fight.

I disagree.

Vegeta's blast provided a distraction that momentarily opened up a hole in Cell's defenses. Hence why Goku exclaimed "NOW!!!", and why Gohan only unloaded his full power within that brief moment of distraction. Like I said above: I'm not saying that Gohan would have been incapable of beating Cell without said interference, but that was certainly the best chance he had at the time.

Cell being overpowered by gohan's full power was going to happen even if vegeta didn't intervene.

Perhaps; perhaps not. Hard to say with any kind of certainty, given that we only saw one scenario play-out(ie. the one where Cell was distracted.)

[Lukmendes]

I interpret Gohan as being slightly stronger than SPC, but the blast made him weaker, and he only won the beam struggle because Vegeta distracted Cell long enough for Gohan to use his full power while Cell couldn't react in time.

So basically SS2 Gohan was still near his level, otherwise he wouldn't be killed, but I still see Cell as the stronger one once Gohan was injured, and Cell only lost because of outside factors, that being Vegeta distracting him.

[Seekeroftruth]

Except that wasn't the case. Goku throughout the entire fight was telling gohan to unleash his full power. He was not only telling gohan to do so at the moment vegeta struck cell.

It was indeed the case.

Goku was gently pushing Gohan into utilizing his full power against Cell throughout the beam-struggle... But Gohan never actually did so until the exact moment when Cell was distracted by Vegeta's attack, and Goku exclaimed "NOW!!!"

Vegeta hitting cell in no way weakened cell to such an amount that it swayed the battle.

I never said Vegeta's blast "weakened" Cell, but it certainly "distracted" him, and from that perspective logically did help sway the battle to at least some extent(as distractions tend to do.)

It merely provided mild distraction but in no way weakened or alter the outcome a fight.

I disagree.

Vegeta's blast provided a distraction that momentarily opened up a hole in Cell's defenses. Hence why Goku exclaimed "NOW!!!", and why Gohan only unloaded his full power within that brief moment of distraction. Like I said above: I'm not saying that Gohan would have been incapable of beating Cell without said interference, but that was certainly the best chance he had at the time.

Cell being overpowered by gohan's full power was going to happen even if vegeta didn't intervene.

Perhaps; perhaps not. Hard to say with any kind of certainty, given that we only saw one scenario play-out(ie. the one where Cell was distracted.)

Except there was no opening in cell's defense. Cell's max output was not weakened/changed/decreased from vegeta's blast. Vegeta's blast merely provided a mild annoyance but cell was still outputting his max power that he had from the get go against SSJ 2 Gohan when their beam struggle first began. This blast was not able to overcome or overpower SSJ2 Gohan's blast which we are given a clear % of being only 50% of his max output. We see that when Son Gohan unleashes his full power that cell cannot even provided a counter and push back a little. His blast gets completely obliterated.

Vegeta's distraction in no way swayed the battle. We saw Super perfect cell tank blast from an enraged vegeta when he SSJ 2nd grade and enraged. A weakened vegeta firing off a blast at him while cell is would not have made a difference. The reason goku says "do it now" and it timing with vegeta distraction was merely done for dramatic and story line effect by Toriyama.

[Bloodthroe]

Cell being hit by an attack by base vegeta would not have caused any real change to the fight; it's like saying a mosquito biting you caused you to lose the fight.

This is incorrect, when we saw Tien do something similar to Semi-Perfect Cell.

And if Vegeta's attack did nothing to Cell, then there would be no logical reason for the artist to have drawn it.

[Bloodthroe]

How does cell being momentarily distracted become a factor? If we consider that then we should acknowledge that gohan was also distracted having conversation with goku. Gohan digging deep is not any increase or extra power, it's the power he always had from the beginning that he was intentionally holding back due to fear of damaging the planet.

I'll explain how I look at it. Imagine you are having an arm wrestling contest with someone and you're both pretty even. Then, a girl comes up and slaps you in the back of the head. Maybe it's not enough to hurt you, but it should be enough to break your concentration and maybe even balance. That should easily give the other guy the chance to turn the tides and win the match.

And no, I don't think Goku encouraging Gohan would be a similar distraction.

[Seekeroftruth]

How does cell being momentarily distracted become a factor? If we consider that then we should acknowledge that gohan was also distracted having conversation with goku. Gohan digging deep is not any increase or extra power, it's the power he always had from the beginning that he was intentionally holding back due to fear of damaging the planet.

I'll explain how I look at it. Imagine you are having an arm wrestling contest with someone and you're both pretty even. Then, a girl comes up and slaps you in the back of the head. Maybe it's not enough to hurt you, but it should be enough to break your concentration and maybe even balance. That should easily give the other guy the chance to turn the tides and win the match.

And no, I don't think Goku encouraging Gohan would be a similar distraction.

Except this isn't how it went down.

In your analogy, Cell would be a guy who starts an arm wrestling contest with someone who is only using 50% of his strength, while cell is using 100% of his. Cell cannot immediately overpower this person despite this person only using 1/2 their strength. Cell then gets bite by an insect (a more accurate interpretation of what vegeta attack felt like). Cell gets mildly distracted. The person who was using only 50% of his strength goes 100% and wins the arm competition. Whether, cell had gotten distracted or not is not a factor. The fact he cannot insta overpower someone at 50% of their strength is telling that he is in no way close to that person at 100% power.

[Koitsukai]

How I see it, Cell was unable to completely overpower a weakened Gohan(although he eventually was going to), but when he got distracted for a bit, and Gohan unleashed his FP, he was not able to come back from that.
An injured Gohan held his own vs Cell's FP, while Cell couldn't do the same not even for a moment, even though he wasn't as injured as Gohan.


This numbers provided by another user work for me:
SSJ Gohan: 67
Perfect Cell: 70(holding back some), 100(max)
SSJ2 Gohan: 134*
SPC: 120

*Toriyama explained ki is made of energy, courage and mindset. Gohan's courage and mindset were lacking due to the injury suffered and the situation going sour... once he got his mojo back, his ki was back in full and Cell was not able to fight it back. At full power, I don't think Gohan was going to lose. He was determined as fuck, his power was not going to wane.

And if Vegeta's attack did nothing to Cell, then there would be no logical reason for the artist to have drawn it.

This, all the way. Why would it be there in the first place, if it didn't amount to a thing?

[Bloodthroe]

Except this isn't how it went down.

In your analogy, Cell would be a guy who starts an arm wrestling contest with someone who is only using 50% of his strength, while cell is using 100% of his. Cell cannot immediately overpower this person despite this person only using 1/2 their strength. Cell then gets bite by an insect (a more accurate interpretation of what vegeta attack felt like). Cell gets mildly distracted. The person who was using only 50% of his strength goes 100% and wins the arm competition. Whether, cell had gotten distracted or not is not a factor. The fact he cannot insta overpower someone at 50% of their strength is telling that he is in no way close to that person at 100% power.

As I had said in my first post, it was made pretty clear that Gohan was not at 50% power. He only lost his confidence. Once he got a pep talk from Goku, his power returned. If you want to believe Gohan was at 50% power during the beam struggle, you're entitled to that opinion. I am still siding with the guides on this one that state Cell and Gohan were even in power.