Death Battle Goku vs Superman again...again

[dario03]

Looks like its happening again, and soon. Announcement at the end of Rick Sanchez vs The Doctor https://youtu.be/DEts4eoZQrs?t=1297
Discuss. Who wins? Expect any differences in approach? Right time? Should there even be another one?

[Yuji]

I'm guessing they'll use Heroes!Goku this time? Even if it's Super!Goku, he's gotten way stronger since RoF. They should probably also narrow down a specific version of Superman, they used some weird composite in the previous two.

[Peach]

Meh. The fights from their Goku vs. Superman videos are fun, but their character analysis sections are pretty bad.

They pick feats for Superman from various continuities (Silver Age, All Star Superman, etc) like they're shopping for groceries, but only stick to GT Goku or Resurrection F Goku. It's just lazy on their part. They emphasize this point that Superman is a character with no limits, when that isn't the case. Numerous characters (Atlas, Shazam, Darkseid, Doomsday, etc) have beaten Superman before and he's been beaten into a coma before.

Goku has also broken the threshold into unquantifiable strength. He shook the entire universe when he fought Beerus, surpassed a character who has the power to surpass time itself with overwhelming strength, was transported to other dimensions in his fight with Broly, fought a character that casually flew from one planet to another in seconds, can move without thinking, has literal instant teleportation. There's a case that maybe, Goku could win. There's a case that Superman has limits and can be beat, even though his power is unquantifiable too. Superman's limits are the writer wants him to lose to.

In the wise words of Stan Lee-

"So one Question I'm always asked. Who would win in a fight? Who would win in a fight if Galactus fought The Hulk, or if Thor fought Iron Man? And there's one answer to all of that. It's so simple, anyone should know this. The person who'd win in a fight is the person that the scriptwriter wants to win! If I'm writing a story, about The Thing, from the Fantastic Four, and he gets into a big fight with Spider-Man, and millions of people out there say Who Would Win? Well, it depends on who I want to win if I'm writing the script. If I want Spider-Man to win, he'll win. If I want the Thing to win, he'll win. These are fictitious characters, the writer can do whatever he wants with them! So stop asking those questions, 'cause I've had it with that."

Superman has won because Screw Attack wanted Superman to win, not because he's limitless or because Goku isn't strong enough. Goku is strong enough if the writer wants him to win. Screw Attack, please pick a version of Superman and stick with it.

[Jiren The Alpha]

Spoiler:

Meh. The fights from their Goku vs. Superman videos are fun, but their character analysis sections are pretty bad.

They pick feats for Superman from various continuities (Silver Age, All Star Superman, etc) like they're shopping for groceries, but only stick to GT Goku or Resurrection F Goku. It's just lazy on their part. They emphasize this point that Superman is a character with no limits, when that isn't the case. Numerous characters (Atlas, Shazam, Darkseid, Doomsday, etc) have beaten Superman before and he's been beaten into a coma before.

Goku has also broken the threshold into unquantifiable strength. He shook the entire universe when he fought Beerus, surpassed a character who has the power to surpass time itself with overwhelming strength, was transported to other dimensions in his fight with Broly, fought a character that casually flew from one planet to another in seconds, can move without thinking, has literal instant teleportation. There's a case that maybe, Goku could win. There's a case that Superman has limits and can be beat, even though his power is unquantifiable too. Superman's limits are the writer wants him to lose to.

In the wise words of Stan Lee-

"So one Question I'm always asked. Who would win in a fight? Who would win in a fight if Galactus fought The Hulk, or if Thor fought Iron Man? And there's one answer to all of that. It's so simple, anyone should know this. The person who'd win in a fight is the person that the scriptwriter wants to win! If I'm writing a story, about The Thing, from the Fantastic Four, and he gets into a big fight with Spider-Man, and millions of people out there say Who Would Win? Well, it depends on who I want to win if I'm writing the script. If I want Spider-Man to win, he'll win. If I want the Thing to win, he'll win. These are fictitious characters, the writer can do whatever he wants with them! So stop asking those questions, 'cause I've had it with that."

Superman has won because Screw Attack wanted Superman to win, not because he's limitless or because Goku isn't strong enough. Goku is strong enough if the writer wants him to win. Screw Attack, please pick a version of Superman and stick with it.

Death Battle is very inconsistent when i comes too feat and research.

Sometime they take anti feat into account and sometime they don't.

Sometime they use the full story context of a feat that a character did (e.g., a character needing help too do something) and sometime they don't.

I wonder if they gonna give Goku toonforce (him breaking a manga panal) like they did with archie sonic.

[Peach]

Spoiler:

Meh. The fights from their Goku vs. Superman videos are fun, but their character analysis sections are pretty bad.

They pick feats for Superman from various continuities (Silver Age, All Star Superman, etc) like they're shopping for groceries, but only stick to GT Goku or Resurrection F Goku. It's just lazy on their part. They emphasize this point that Superman is a character with no limits, when that isn't the case. Numerous characters (Atlas, Shazam, Darkseid, Doomsday, etc) have beaten Superman before and he's been beaten into a coma before.

Goku has also broken the threshold into unquantifiable strength. He shook the entire universe when he fought Beerus, surpassed a character who has the power to surpass time itself with overwhelming strength, was transported to other dimensions in his fight with Broly, fought a character that casually flew from one planet to another in seconds, can move without thinking, has literal instant teleportation. There's a case that maybe, Goku could win. There's a case that Superman has limits and can be beat, even though his power is unquantifiable too. Superman's limits are the writer wants him to lose to.

In the wise words of Stan Lee-

"So one Question I'm always asked. Who would win in a fight? Who would win in a fight if Galactus fought The Hulk, or if Thor fought Iron Man? And there's one answer to all of that. It's so simple, anyone should know this. The person who'd win in a fight is the person that the scriptwriter wants to win! If I'm writing a story, about The Thing, from the Fantastic Four, and he gets into a big fight with Spider-Man, and millions of people out there say Who Would Win? Well, it depends on who I want to win if I'm writing the script. If I want Spider-Man to win, he'll win. If I want the Thing to win, he'll win. These are fictitious characters, the writer can do whatever he wants with them! So stop asking those questions, 'cause I've had it with that."

Superman has won because Screw Attack wanted Superman to win, not because he's limitless or because Goku isn't strong enough. Goku is strong enough if the writer wants him to win. Screw Attack, please pick a version of Superman and stick with it.

Death Battle is very inconsistent when i comes too feat and research.

Sometime they take anti feat into account and sometime they don't.

Sometime they use the full story context of a feat that a character did (e.g., a character needing help too do something) and sometime they don't.

I wonder if they gonna give Goku toonforce (him breaking a manga panal) like they did with archie sonic.

I remember they used Superman holding a book with infinite pages as a feat in the last Goku vs. Superman video, when someone like John Constantine or Professor Chimp lifted that same book.

Superman has won in their videos because they think it's better thematically he should win because they seem glued to this idea that 's unstoppable. Nothing wrong with that. If that's the kind of story they want to write, that's the kind of story they want to write. But, I think they should show restraint when they present their head canon as fact. Superman is a character with limits, has been defeated, and the feats they present are from different continuities. Goku shook an infinite void of nothingness with his power, shook the universe, shattered through dimensions in fights, and overcame time itself since the last video. It's pretty clear there's a case for either of these unquantifiable characters winning. It boils down to the preference of the writer.

[Hellspawn28]

If Goku wins, they still get many downvotes from Superman fans who felt like Screw Attack that sell out. Screw Attack got flack for having Broly win against The Hulk and #18 against Captain Marvel because they felt the fights were too one sided.

[FoolsGil]

What was it that they said in the last two videos? Goku is about breaking his limits, Superman has none, so only one has anything to give up at the end of the day? So unless UI puts Goku at a point where he has no limits, it's more or less going to end up the same.

Should've been Goku v Omni-Man.

[Jiren The Alpha]

What was it that they said in the last two videos? Goku is about breaking his limits, Superman has none, so only one has anything to give up at the end of the day? So unless UI puts Goku at a point where he has no limits, it's more or less going to end up the same.

Should've been Goku v Omni-Man.

Omni-man is saiyan saga level.

[FoolsGil]

What was it that they said in the last two videos? Goku is about breaking his limits, Superman has none, so only one has anything to give up at the end of the day? So unless UI puts Goku at a point where he has no limits, it's more or less going to end up the same.

Should've been Goku v Omni-Man.

Omni-man is saiyan saga level.

You know I'd hate to say that science in Death Battle is "valid" or "real" but at least they don't shoot from the hip with speculation. Long before death battle existed an article said Superman would lose to Goku at basic Super Saiyan. So as much as fandom's going to fandom, I think I'll leave it to the "experts" on this sort of thing.

[Jiren The Alpha]

What was it that they said in the last two videos? Goku is about breaking his limits, Superman has none, so only one has anything to give up at the end of the day? So unless UI puts Goku at a point where he has no limits, it's more or less going to end up the same.

Should've been Goku v Omni-Man.

Omni-man is saiyan saga level.

You know I'd hate to say that science in Death Battle is "valid" or "real" but at least they don't shoot from the hip with speculation. Long before death battle existed an article said Superman would lose to Goku at basic Super Saiyan. So as much as fandom's going to fandom, I think I'll leave it to the "experts" on this sort of thing.

I have read the invincible comic long before it got animated, Omni-man have shown nothing too be above even Nappa. Doesn't take a big brain to look at feats and determine that he doesn't stand a chance lol. I have already explaind in this thread that Death Battle is inconsistent with they feat and research so I'm not gonna do that again, you can read that if you want, but when it comes to power scaling i dont even thing they are top 10 in the community lol.

[Grimlock]

We are still doing this despite so many interesting fights to be done instead? I'm willing to bet these are the same people who complain about "lack of creativity" everywhere else.

Who wins?

Whoever the writer(s) want.

Expect any differences in approach?

No. Same nonsense as always.

Right time?

Never.

Should there even be another one?

No.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Should there even be another one?

I could've lived without a third one, two same match ups were already enough.

Expect any differences in approach?

For this match up they confirmed they will consider "everything" for Goku now (Heroes and Xeno(?)) and they're going acknowledge that Superman does have limits. That said...

Who wins?

It will still be Superman, since they going to use DC's current Infinite Frontier relaunch Superman will get his Golden Age feats this time. Goku is goner.

[JulieYBM]

Should there even be another one?

I could've lived without a third one, two same match ups were already enough.

Expect any differences in approach?

For this match up they confirmed they will consider "everything" for Goku now (Heroes and Xeno(?)) and they're going acknowledge that Superman does have limits. That said...

Who wins?

It will still be Superman, since they going to use DC's current Infinite Frontier relaunch Superman will get his Golden Age feats this time. Goku is goner.

Golden Age Superman is weaker than Infinite Frontier Superman. The Silver Age Earth-One Superman is the strongest, but after being depowered in-universe in 1970 the character has remained below that ridiculous level of being able to destroy solar systems with a sneeze. Infinite Frontier-era Earth-0 Clark isn't all that strong, and has few feats of strength.

That all being said, I don't care about feats of strength. I'm curious about the character interactions—which I think would be juicy for drama since Clark and Son Gokuu would not get along lol

[Yuji]

Should there even be another one?

I could've lived without a third one, two same match ups were already enough.

Expect any differences in approach?

For this match up they confirmed they will consider "everything" for Goku now (Heroes and Xeno(?)) and they're going acknowledge that Superman does have limits. That said...

Who wins?

It will still be Superman, since they going to use DC's current Infinite Frontier relaunch Superman will get his Golden Age feats this time. Goku is goner.

Heroes!Goku deals with foes that can wipe out an infinite amount of timelines at will, I'm pretty sure he scales way higher than his Super counterpart who is already leagues beyond what Goku maxed out at in 2015 when galaxy-busting Beerus was the commonly accepted ceiling. On top of that if they really want to get wacky, I'm sure one of the Heroes villains in the arcade game threatens to invade and destroy the real world itself - not exactly sure how you quantifiably scale that, but there's that.

[The Monkey King]

If they're doing a third one it's either going to be a draw or Goku victory.

Or Supes wins again and they just really wanted that juicy December YT Ad revenue and sponsorship payments

[Peach]

If they're doing a third one it's either going to be a draw or Goku victory.

Or Supes wins again and they just really wanted that juicy December YT Ad revenue and sponsorship payments

I feel like a draw would probably be best honestly. Goku shakes universes, shakes infinite voids of nothingness, can blow away a solar system (if Cell is to be believed), creates dimensional holes when he fights, and has surpassed fighters who surpassed time itself through strength. Despite the other two death battles saying otherwise, Superman does have limits and has been beaten by numerous characters (the dude was beat into a coma).

I think acknowledging that both fighters are social system destroyers and are both unquantifiable is probably for the best. Along with them clarifying that Superman does have limits and can be beaten. The fight really is a toss up and is up to the discretion of the writers.

[Grimlock]

Well, how convenient that on the day I saw this thread, Comics Explained posted a video in which Superman loses to Godzilla. The bigger you are, the slower you get so I would imagine Godzilla would definitely lose against the likes of Superman, but eh...

Normally, I'd say Superman would win against Goku, but it really can go either way. Especially if the Goku taken into consideration is, like, a combination of Gokus, like people usually do for Superman, taking into account events that has nothing to do with the current Superman:

A Dragon Ball Online Goku from AGE 800 (one year before he leaves Earth), who experienced everything (Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT, Dragon Ball Super, Dragon Ball Heroes, the movies and OVAs) is the strongest Goku. He has access to all forms and can, in theory, combine Ultra Instinct (the technique, not the transformation) with Super Full Power Saiyan 4 Limit Breaker or Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (maybe even being able to stack Kaio-Ken?). This Goku can most assuredly defeat Superman in his prime, if the writer wills so.

(Still would prefer to see Bardock vs Jor-El, in a Science test!).

[Zephyr]

In the wise words of Stan Lee-

"So one Question I'm always asked. Who would win in a fight? Who would win in a fight if Galactus fought The Hulk, or if Thor fought Iron Man? And there's one answer to all of that. It's so simple, anyone should know this. The person who'd win in a fight is the person that the scriptwriter wants to win! If I'm writing a story, about The Thing, from the Fantastic Four, and he gets into a big fight with Spider-Man, and millions of people out there say Who Would Win? Well, it depends on who I want to win if I'm writing the script. If I want Spider-Man to win, he'll win. If I want the Thing to win, he'll win. These are fictitious characters, the writer can do whatever he wants with them! So stop asking those questions, 'cause I've had it with that."

Yeah, this is why hypothetical "Vs. Match Ups" based solely on feats are largely pointless, and is one reason why I haven't watched Death Battle in a very long time. Gathering and comparing feats is one thing; you could compare how much one character can lift vs. another, how fast one can travel vs. another, how big of a thing one can break vs. another, and so on. You could get concrete answers on raw stats. But the way that these stats factor into an actual fight comes down to scripting and writing, so the answer to "who would win?" is very much up in the air. Countless actual fights in both fiction and real life conclude in ways that Feat Farmers™ would never have predicted.

[goku the krump dancer]

Personally I think their just looking for an excuse to slap Ultra Instinct in one of their videos, theirs very little info on just how the form works a d by how much it increases Goku's power, so their gonna be a HELLUVA lot of assumptions being made. They did the same thing with Black Freeza who for some reason the form had to be used on freaking Megatron, like what?! Same with Ultra Ego against Thor, theirs literally almost no info on how the form works but they just HAD to throw it in a video because its part of the new hotness.

To be honest they did Red God and Blue God the same way, we STILL don't really know how the forms work or how much stronger they make Goku and Vegeta so just imagine back then when the forms were new, they legit made Goku vs Superman 2 so fans can shut up about a rematch.

[Hellspawn28]

From what I've read from Doomsday clock, Superman has fought stronger opponents in that arc than anyone in Dragon Ball has shown recently.