Dragon Ball Without Its Creator

[SupremeKai25]

Not only I want Toei to continue churning out DBS movies, I also want these movies to be part of the DBS timeline. This means, no Post-EoZ stuff, because that is the final boundary Toriyama set for his story. That is the "off-limits" area beyond which you cannot go.

Anything before that, it's fair game.

I enjoyed the DBZ movies that Toei produced on their own, I might even find some of them more original and unique in concept compared to their respective manga arcs. (For instance, I find Cooler much more interesting as a Revenge plotline than Mecha Frieza)

- I enjoyed the idea of Frieza having a brother who wants revenge;
- I enjoyed the idea of the Legendary Super Saiyan being an evil scumbag;
- I enjoyed the magical and surreal atmosphere of the Janemba movie, a good alternative to the Buu saga;
- I enjoyed the dark, gloomy atmosphere of the Hirudegarn movie.

Ideally, we will have new DBS movies made by Toei, which expand upon concepts and plot hooks from the pre-existing Super story arcs, without straying too far from the final boundary Toriyama set for his original story (the 28th Budokai). Thereby, here are some plot hooks and concepts that can be expanded into full-length movies:

- Black Frieza movie is a must at this stage of the game;
- Visit to Planet Sadala, a movie focused on the Saiyan trio from U6, a colourful trio of characters with an interesting dynamic with the protagonists (I enjoyed the scenes from the DBS where Goku and Vegeta act as sort of mentors for Caulifla and Cabba respectively);
- Return of "Z", aka Return of Zamasu, the most popular and iconic villain of the Dragon Ball Revival, I'd say with confidence that this is a movie bound for success;
- Tournament of Power 2.0, with a much more restricted cast (I can do without 70 fodder and irrelevant fighters), but more focused fights (cut the filler like Tien vs. Dr. Rota or whatever that nobody cared about);
- A movie set around Future Trunks and how he is doing since the conclusion of the Zamasu saga could be an interesting opportunity to catch up with Future Trunks again.

This is all rather simple stuff, nothing ground-breaking:

- Fans keep talking about Black Frieza, so give them a movie about him.
- Fans keep talking about Planet Sadala, so give them a movie about it.
- Goku Black/Zamasu was a well-received villain who stars in multiple mainstream videogames (including a Fortnite collab), clearly there is an interest here, so give him a movie just for fun.
- Fans keep talking about TOP 2.0 with all the new forms introduced since 2018, so give them a movie about it.
- Fans love Future Trunks, I'm sure a movie about him would be well-received.

Keep it grounded, keep it simple (simple ideas, just what the fans might find cool or interesting, nothing too crazy), keep it in line with Super and the 28th Tournament. Nothing beyond it. Just Super.

The plot hooks and concepts that Toriyama scattered across the DBS storylines are enough material to carry the franchise for the next 10 years. After that, we will see if there's anything left of Super content to milk. That will be a problem for 2034, though.

[eledoremassis02]

Just thinking, with the Manga it's credited as Story by: Toriyama. If it continues past his creative input (not sure how far his artistic input is left in this run) will it still be credited as Story By, or once (if) Toyotaro takes over 100% will it just be credited to him?

[JulieYBM]

Just thinking, with the Manga it's credited as Story by: Toriyama. If it continues past his creative input (not sure how far his artistic input is left in this run) will it still be credited as Story By, or once (if) Toyotaro takes over 100% will it just be credited to him?

The credits will likely read 'Created by Toriyama Akira' and 'Manga by Toyo-tarou'.

[VegettoEX]

Just thinking, with the Manga it's credited as Story by: Toriyama. If it continues past his creative input (not sure how far his artistic input is left in this run) will it still be credited as Story By, or once (if) Toyotaro takes over 100% will it just be credited to him?

So again, this is a little bit of nuance that's lost (intentionally or otherwise) with Viz's credits:

In Japanese, Dragon Ball Super's credit for Toriyama on the manga series is 原作 (gensaku), which we'd typically translate out as "Original Work" or "Original Author" -- it's referring to the fact that Akira Toriyama was the original creator of the original series called Dragon Ball.

Toriyama gets this credit on EVERYTHING regardless of whether he actually worked on the series in any way. It's a generic, all-encompassing credit that every piece of Dragon Ball merchandise receives.

What I'd argue he should ACTUALLY be credited with for the Dragon Ball Super manga is what he received for the Episode of Bardock manga IN ADDITION TO AND BEYOND just the basic gensaku credit: the 監修 (kanshū) credit ("Supervisor" or "Editorial Supervisor").

It gets complicated when you have editorial meetings and story pitches and Toriyama story arc outlines (and maybe once actually not getting that for Moro), but saying "Story By Akira Toriyama" is a very compromised credit explanation. Toyotaro deserves a lot of credit for the actual moment-to-moment storytelling in that manga, because he's the one writing that manga.

As for what the future holds for that credit? I don't see gensaku changing at all, because it never had to change. As for what Viz will do with it? I mean, that depends on a million different things, huh?

[eledoremassis02]

Just thinking, with the Manga it's credited as Story by: Toriyama. If it continues past his creative input (not sure how far his artistic input is left in this run) will it still be credited as Story By, or once (if) Toyotaro takes over 100% will it just be credited to him?

So again, this is a little bit of nuance that's lost (intentionally or otherwise) with Viz's credits:

In Japanese, Dragon Ball Super's credit for Toriyama on the manga series is 原作 (gensaku), which we'd typically translate out as "Original Work" or "Original Author" -- it's referring to the fact that Akira Toriyama was the original creator of the original series called Dragon Ball.

Toriyama gets this credit on EVERYTHING regardless of whether he actually worked on the series in any way. It's a generic, all-encompassing credit that every piece of Dragon Ball merchandise receives.

What I'd argue he should ACTUALLY be credited with for the Dragon Ball Super manga is what he received for the Episode of Bardock manga IN ADDITION TO AND BEYOND just the basic gensaku credit: the 監修 (kanshū) credit ("Supervisor" or "Editorial Supervisor").

It gets complicated when you have editorial meetings and story pitches and Toriyama story arc outlines (and maybe once actually not getting that for Moro), but saying "Story By Akira Toriyama" is a very compromised credit explanation. Toyotaro deserves a lot of credit for the actual moment-to-moment storytelling in that manga, because he's the one writing that manga.

As for what the future holds for that credit? I don't see gensaku changing at all, because it never had to change. As for what Viz will do with it? I mean, that depends on a million different things, huh?

Thanks for clearing that up! It always sounded like Toriyama had more involvement with the Manga vs the anime but that does explain a lot of things

[kemuri07]

It feels like the equivalent of an "executive producer"

[GhostEmperorX]

So again, this is a little bit of nuance that's lost (intentionally or otherwise) with Viz's credits

Ditto, and to add, generally all English company credit translations of JP media shouldn't be taken as reference unless a JP company directly puts out a credit translation themselves (at which point any errors are actually official).

(They aren't even 100% valid sources for name romanizations either.)

[Jord]

I was thinking about the original DBZ movies, which where mostly alternate takes on things that happened in the manga/anime. I can see future projects taking this approach as well. They could even make new movies, based on previous eras that way, giving way more freedom to the writers.

[tonysoprano300]

I don’t necessarily think its a bad idea to go past end of Z, I assume that discussion was already had with Toriyama and so they know what his feelings were. I'm just eager to see us get an actual progression of time, I wanna see Pan grow up. I wanna see Goten and Trunks as adults, id like to see an aging Krillin or Yamcha etc.

If Toriyama was opposed to that then I feel he wouldn’t have been involved in character designs on GT.

But I'm also totally ok if Dragon Ball just ends after Daima as well, I think it can go either way. Afterall DB went on an insane hiatus before with many people believing the series was over

[tonysoprano300]

I was thinking about the original DBZ movies, which where mostly alternate takes on things that happened in the manga/anime. I can see future projects taking this approach as well. They could even make new movies, based on previous eras that way, giving way more freedom to the writers.

Sounds cool, some of the best DB content we’ve ever gotten came from stuff that expanded on the threads in the main series. Like the history of trunks or the bardock special. Id much prefer they did stuff like that over the standard toei plot of “really strong bad guy shows up and is defeated”.

Would like to see something more interesting, like maybe a movie about the saiyan war vs the tsfururians.

[super michael]

I really hope that Dragon Ball Super Manga gets animated. The Moro, Granolah and DBS Super Heroes chapters are really good.
It would be good to have it animated, so they can be playable in games.