Has Dragon Ball gotten too big for its own good?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I saw a discussion yesterday regarding the new Mandalorian movie, and one of the speakers brought up a good point about Star Wars in general, what's left that we haven't seen yet ? This got me thinking about Dragon Ball; has the franchise expanded so much that there's simply nowhere else to go ? One issue with Dragon Ball is that a lot of really good ideas were wasted on mediocre products, so how should this issue be addressed by whoever takes over from Toriyama ? Do they try to revisit said ideas and hope they get them right this time, or scrape the bottom for something that hasn't been done yet ? One great idea is that of the Saiyans' past coming back to haunt them. This was explored three times in the Hatchyach OVA in Z, the Baby arc in GT, and the Granolla arc in Super. The problem is, none of these three managed to fully pull it off.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I don't think so, because, at least in my country a lot of people wouldn't know what Dragon Ball is unless they were already immersed in anime or nerd culture.

You could say the downside of any franchise like Dragon Ball or Star Wars becoming successful is that they will always be milked way beyond their original run and inevitably the content will decline in quality, but I'm honestly fine with that as we can easily ignore what we don't like.

I always wanted a new Dragon Ball TV anime, Super finally scratched that itch, and it got me into the Japanese version so even though it doesn't compare to original Dragon Ball and Z I'll always be grateful we had Super.

one of the speakers brought up a good point about Star Wars in general, what's left that we haven't seen yet ? This got me thinking about Dragon Ball; has the franchise expanded so much that there's simply nowhere else to go ?

Maybe there's nowhere to go with Goku, but if the writers are ambitious enough the sky is the limit. We could have spinoffs about characters from any of the 12 universes, or maybe even the other 6 universes before they were erased.

Star Wars is finally branching out from being just about the Skywalkers, so why can't Dragon Ball look beyond the Son family?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

You could say the downside of any franchise like Dragon Ball or Star Wars becoming successful is that they will always be milked way beyond their original run and inevitably the content will decline in quality.

Definitely. We've gotten so much content since Toriyama ended his original manga back in 1995, yet only a handful of projects (Battle of Gods & Daima) feel like they put actual effort into them. Everything else though was clearly a soulless cash grab with little to no artistic integrity.

Star Wars is finally branching out from being just about the Skywalkers, so why can't Dragon Ball look beyond the Son family?

I've been saying this for awhile now; a series set over 100-200 years in the future with an entirely new cast will provide everyone involved with limitless possibilities to continue the franchise. The problem is, that will never happen. The current leadership rarely allows the established cast to go on entirely new adventures, relying instead on popular concepts like bringing Freeza and Future Trunks back. The chances of them outright moving on from Goku and his friends are likely below zero at this point.

[GhostEmperorX]

As I mentioned in a different thread, one could say that the same was true even of the original run of the series.
Maybe not in the sense of what's left to see or not see, but in general, because what was there before was already massive.

[Koitsukai]

I don't think there is nowhere else to go, this decade the PTB have been keen on not crossing that one line: EoZ.

Stories about the next generation. Uub, Pan, Bra, Goten, Trunks, Mar(r)on, they all have potential to entertain us for a while. We don't even need to discard Goku for this.
GT doesn't count even if it's the only product that had the balls to go past the end, it still did the same old same old. Same as DBS and Daima.

I wouldn't mind having spinoff mangas/shows about characters that were never given much room to shine or timeskips. Hit, Paikuhan, Beerus, Daimakai stories, 7 year hiatus stories, pre-DBZ hiatus stories, Yamoshi, legend of the saiyans, legend of the Cold Empire.
There's a lot of oil to be extracted from the franchise without going to back to the same formula, retconning, or pretending something didn't happen.

[JulieYBM]

There are plenty of stories that they can still tell. The fact that Toriyama was consistently just taking requests from executives so that they could sell toys proves that. Instead of trying to just sell toys, perhaps...just tell certain types of stories? It's not like Toriyama was the only writer—or even the best writer—to ever be involved with Dragon Ball.

[BernardoCairo]

^
He may not have been the best writer in the literal sense, but his manga is, in my opinion, by far the best and most consistent Dragon Ball story we've ever had. And he injected a lot of his DNA into the series itself, writing it weekly. I don't think every artist involved with Dragon Ball needs to do what Toriyama would do, but they do need to understand what Dragon Ball is, which I think is probably hard to do given how many times it's ended up failing (most of the 90s movies, GT, Super, etc).
I think "modern Toriyama" still had a passion for what he created, but he didn't care enough to do the work he did before, which is probably fair considering how many consecutive years he spent working on weekly manga and other projects.

[Skar]

Star Wars and the MCU are good examples of major franchises that peaked and started slowing down. Their universes have almost endless potential for stories to tell but that didn't result in every random story attracting enough fans willing to pay to watch them. They won't be ending any time soon but new movies and shows will be released less frequently.

I think the same would happen with any franchise and might've already started happening with DB. There was a lot less content released after Super ended compared to what some fans were arguing which is a good thing in my opinion. Since 2018 we've had two movies, two manga exclusive arcs, an unrelated miniseries, and Heroes ended. By the time we get to the 10th anniversary of Super ending we might only have one new manga arc and a movie. DB isn't ending and just less than what we saw during the peak of the revival.

[Adamant]

Star Wars and (Dragonball) are good examples of major franchises that peaked and started slowing down.

Or more accurately, as major WORKS that ENDED and then later got revived and turned into milkable franchises that keep adding more and more unnecessary and mediocre-at-best material to an already finished story that didn't need anything more.

Had Dragonball ACTUALLY ended with Buu and Star Wars ACTUALLY ended with Return of the Jedi, both franchises would've been far more beloved today than they currently are.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Or more accurately, as major WORKS that ENDED and then later got revived and turned into milkable franchises that keep adding more and more unnecessary and mediocre-at-best material to an already finished story that didn't need anything more.

Had Dragonball ACTUALLY ended with Buu and Star Wars ACTUALLY ended with Return of the Jedi, both franchises would've been far more beloved today than they currently are.

Dragon Ball as a long-running series definitely should've ended with the Buu arc. I have no issues with a series that ended coming back every decade or so for a single story that's actually worth telling, but not more than that. If Dragon Ball's modern revival was just the Battle of Gods movie in 2013 and then Daima in 2024, then no one would have an issue with it. The problem is all the shit in-between that adds zero value to the story or brand. In fact, not only did the likes of Minus, Resurrection F, and Super not add value to DB, they actually took value away from it.

[Hellspawn28]

Star Wars is finally branching out from being just about the Skywalkers, so why can't Dragon Ball look beyond the Son family?

Dragon Ball isn't Star Wars. DB has and always be Goku's story.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Dragon Ball isn't Star Wars. DB has and always be Goku's story.

So was Star Wars about one family at one point, but that didn't stop them from at least trying to branch out. The story of Goku and his friends has nowhere else to go, so if they intend to continue with the franchise in a meaningful way, then they need to move on from them. Toriyama already attempted that with Online, setting it 200 years in the future, so that's something they could attempt in animated form. With that said, the issue with the post-Buu arc material of DB isn't just the focus on Goku's story, it's the lack of talent of the people writing the stories. If the same people who wrote Super were to write a non-Goku story, then chances are it also wouldn't be that good due to their lack of writing abilities.

[Hellspawn28]

I get tired of people always comparing DB to stuff like Star Wars, Marvel & DC, Pokémon, etc. I feel like DB has almost nothing in common with those two.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I get tired of people always comparing DB to stuff like Star Wars, Marvel & DC, Pokémon, etc. I feel like DB has almost nothing in common with those two.

Both Dragon Ball and Star Wars were very successful cultural phenomenon during their original run, while their revivals failed to live up to expectations and sustain that same quality of storytelling. The MCU was the biggest thing in Hollywood during the Infinity Saga (2008-2019), but things went downhill once they went beyond the natural endpoint of Endgame.

[JulieYBM]

I'm not really interested in jerking off capitalism, but it's hardly going to matter what Dragon Ball is about when the IP holders inevitably decide to move on from Gokuu and do a multi-year series focused on a main character other than him. It'll happen eventually, after all. That's just how these franchises are.

[Hellspawn28]

The similarities end there. I know Toriyama was a big SW fan, but I don't think the two should be compared.

[Skar]

Or more accurately, as major WORKS that ENDED and then later got revived and turned into milkable franchises that keep adding more and more unnecessary and mediocre-at-best material to an already finished story that didn't need anything more.

Had Dragonball ACTUALLY ended with Buu and Star Wars ACTUALLY ended with Return of the Jedi, both franchises would've been far more beloved today than they currently are.

That's true but I think it's something that works itself out with all examples in recent years of sequels and revivals of classic franchises flopping or barely breaking even. If the studio doesn't give it a good ending then eventually they stop or at least slow down once it loses money. It might be due to shortage of staff or more respect for the work but every franchise that gets milked in Japan is less compared to what a Hollywood studio would've done before giving up.

We can't undo what they've already released and only hope the same continues applying to DB. It's been fairly consistent that every prediction from fans of how much they'll milk the franchise after Super ended has been wrong. It's kinda in the same boat as Boruto and the manga is still going on V-Jump but unclear when the anime will continue. All we heard is that there are plans for more content but unclear how frequently. It could be a movie or miniseries every decade. The more times pass the less likely it'll ever be as much content as during the peak of the revival.

[JulieYBM]

The Boruto anime is probably on hiatus until the Bleach anime is finished. Yamashita Hiroyuki and other regulars are all off working on Bleach right now, so the Boruto anime doesn't have any available staff to work with as it is.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

The Boruto anime is probably on hiatus until the Bleach anime is finished. Yamashita Hiroyuki and other regulars are all off working on Bleach right now, so the Boruto anime doesn't have any available staff to work with as it is.

Speaking of terrible continuations of good franchise...

[JulieYBM]

The Boruto anime is probably on hiatus until the Bleach anime is finished. Yamashita Hiroyuki and other regulars are all off working on Bleach right now, so the Boruto anime doesn't have any available staff to work with as it is.

Speaking of terrible continuations of good franchise...

Boruto is pretty good. I love how it has no problem kind of just shitting on the older generation that I grew up with. The major issue with the series is that Boruto himself doesn't have a good character arc and focusing on Sarada would have been a lot more interesting.