Strongest Villian

Muten Turtel · Post by **Muten Turtel** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:27 pm

I was thinking about this and my list (not including GT) is

1) Buu in General
2) Hildengarn
3) Janeba
4) Brolly-really unsure
5) Cell
7) Dabura

Bojack
9) Babidi Fighters?
10) Android 17

Also who is stronger 19 or Freezer?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:33 pm

I think 19 was stronger than Freeza. Note how Trunks killed Freeza in an instant, and at that time Goku was AT LEAST as strong as Trunks. I know Goku doesn't like to fight that way, but because of his heart condition he decided not to when against #19. If #19 were weaker or the same strength as CYBORG Freeza, he'd have been bashed to bits. You could argue that the heart disease weakened Goku, but at the beginning of the fight Piccolo didn't notice a difference in Goku's strength, just HOW he was fighting.

Muten Turtel · Post by **Muten Turtel** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:40 pm

Yeah but Vegeta played around with 19 i definately think Freezer could kill 20 though, he seemed weaker but the key is the absorbsion. Which reminds me another reason GT sucks Goten and Trunks sense 19's power level and blast him to death (again).

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:43 pm

I said Goku, not Vegeta. Read my whole post. I was all happy at how people wouldn't be able to disprove it. And then you didn't read that section of it.

Muten Turtel · Post by **Muten Turtel** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:47 pm

Yeah your right It was fighting style. But I was thinking like Vegeta maybe stronger than Goku at that point in time which answers my own question.

Neon Z · Post by **Neon Z** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:56 am

#20 is stated to be stronger than #19.

Muten Turtel · Post by **Muten Turtel** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:21 am

The Only person to state 20 is actually stronger is 20 himself, by looking at the fights it would seem 19 was stronger.

TGDweezl · Post by **TGDweezl** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:20 am

I'd say #20 was stronger maybe in fighting prowess than #19. #19 kinda just enjoyed bashing and injuring people while #20 use Dr.Gero's brain to strategized his plans. But then wouldn't he have called Vegeta's bluff if he was mentally superior? Mayhaps not. He did realize he was outclassed when he saw Vegeta waste #19 and decided to head for the lab and hide along the way. He also knew that Vegeta would get impatient and start blasting away the landscape to flush #20 out which gave him the energy bost he needed to make it the rest of the way to activate #17 and #18. So, I think #20 was only mentally tougher than #19. #19 only said basic sentences and was all about bashing heads.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:08 am

Actually Gero hadn't decided to head for the lab after he saw Vegita destroy #19. He decided to hide out and steal energy from the others until he had enough to beat Vegita with. That's what he planned to collect the energy for. He was still confident that if he could, Vegita wouldn't be a problem. He still wasn't planning to return and activate #17 and #18. It was after being pummeled all over the place by Piccolo that Gero realized he was greatly outclassed, and then made his escape and decided to return to the lab to activate them.

TGDweezl · Post by **TGDweezl** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:25 pm

But he was still heading in the general direction of the lab when he took off. Ah well, can't be right all the times. Oh yeah, to stay on topic here's my list of strongest villians from DBZ

1. Buu (in general)
2. Janemba
3. Cell
4. Hildegarn
5. Alternate-timeline Androids 17&18
6. Broli
7. Frieza
8. Bojack and crew
9. Vegeta (First encounter & Majin Vegeta)
10. Garlic Jr.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:32 pm

TGDweezl wrote:But he was still heading in the general direction of the lab when he took off. Ah well, can't be right all the times. Oh yeah, to stay on topic here's my list of strongest villians from DBZ

1. Buu (in general)
2. Janemba
3. Cell
4. Hildegarn
5. Alternate-timeline Androids 17&18
6. Broli
7. Freeza
8. Bojack and crew
9. Vegeta (First encounter & Majin Vegeta)
10. Garlic Jr.

Cell stronger than Hildegarn, and Freeza stronger than Bojack and Majin Vegeta?

Muten Turtel · Post by **Muten Turtel** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:55 pm

- Garlic Junior isn't really strong, just immortal
- Bojack was stronger than the androids since Bojack was stronger than USSJ trunks who could easily defeat the androids and second stage Cell
-Hildengarns Magic confuses me..
-Vegeta only first encounter was weaker than all those guys but second if it counts, would be above androids I believe.
-If you means trunks timeline androids, they are weaker than the ones from Current timeline, trunks says so himself.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:11 pm

Muten Turtel wrote:-If you means trunks timeline androids, they are weaker than the ones from Current timeline, trunks says so himself.

Yeah, but I really don't see any evidence at all in the series that proves that. Future ones beat up everyone no problem, present day ones beat up everyone no problem.

Muten Turtel · Post by **Muten Turtel** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:25 pm

Don't mean to be a smartass but I have the episodes on DVD " (androids) They're even more powerful than the androids tumks told us about." Krillin in the Skyplane episode 125 Unwelcome discovery(english)
"Yep. You can even think of them as stronger than what Trunks warned us bout." (japanese Krillin) BEsides a rgular super Saiyan can stand up to them in Trunk's time, remeber how they had to gang up on Gohan and Trunks in there seperate fights in the Trunks special.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:02 pm

I think the ones from the future are the same as the ones from the present. I think Gohan just got that strong, he had been fighting them for years after all.

And I think 19 and 20 were weaker than Frieza. Namek Frieza was 12,000,000 and there's no way Piccolo went from around 2,000,000 to over 12,000,000 in about four years. I'd say, at the most, the Androids were at about 5,000,000.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 8:36 pm

Muten Turtel wrote:Don't mean to be a smartass but I have the episodes on DVD

So do I. But a character saying something doesn't necessarily make it true (although that's a whole other argument that's FUN FUN FUN)

As Xyex says, Future Gohan had been a Super Saiyan for several years when he fought the Androids. Present Vegeta had been a Super Saiyan for (probably) less than a year.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:03 pm

Muten Turtel wrote:Don't mean to be a smartass but I have the episodes on DVD " (androids) They're even more powerful than the androids tumks told us about." Krillin in the Skyplane episode 125 Unwelcome discovery(english)
"Yep. You can even think of them as stronger than what Trunks warned us bout." (japanese Krillin) BEsides a rgular super Saiyan can stand up to them in Trunk's time, remeber how they had to gang up on Gohan and Trunks in there seperate fights in the Trunks special.

In the manga, the Artificial Humans from the future are clearly much more powerful than Gohan and Trunks. #17 and #18 were apparently using only 50% of their power, even during the fight when Gohan lost his arm.

Like PsyLiam said: both versions of the Artificial Humans beat everyone up effortlessly. Trunks probably only assumed they were weaker in his time because they never bothered using 100% of their strength.

Xyex wrote:And I think 19 and 20 were weaker than Freeza. Namek Freeza was 12,000,000 and there's no way Piccolo went from around 2,000,000 to over 12,000,000 in about four years.

Why? Power increases from training appear to be proportional. If Piccolo can triple his power in a single year, he should be able to manage something a lot more impressive in four years.

Trunks could kill both Freeza and King Cold with a single attack. As Dayspring pointed out, Goku couldn't manage to finish #19 in the time before he was severely affected by his illness, so #19 must be stronger than Freeza.

Personally, I'd double the power level each time it's shown that one character significantly outclasses the other. So:

--Arrival of Trunks--
Freeza: ~12,000,000.
King Cold: ~12,000,000.
Super Saiya-jin Trunks: ~24,000,000. (kills Freeza and Cold with one blow.)
Super Saiya-jin Goku: ~48,000,000. (effortlessly blocks blows of the same strength.)

--Early Cell Saga--
Super Saiya-jin Goku: At least 48,000,000.
Artificial Human #19: At least the equivalent of 24,000,000. (doesn't get immediately killed by Goku.)

Muten Turtel · Post by **Muten Turtel** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:08 pm

I'm just saying that because I remeber Trunks being like "i don't get it, these androids are much stronger than the ones i fought it the future." But I don't feel like scanning throught that again. Remeber when Trunks blasted Android 17 in the Special when he went out alone against them for the first time we see since Gohans death and before he travels back in time. 17 at least falls down, while as in Z when the androids try to set 16 free, he says he hit them with his strongest blast when it did less than a gust of wind....I see how this can still be arguable though.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:39 pm

Muten Turtel wrote:I'm just saying that because I remeber Trunks being like "i don't get it, these androids are much stronger than the ones i fought it the future." But I don't feel like scanning throught that again. Remeber when Trunks blasted Android 17 in the Special when he went out alone against them for the first time we see since Gohans death and before he travels back in time. 17 at least falls down, while as in Z when the androids try to set 16 free, he says he hit them with his strongest blast when it did less than a gust of wind....I see how this can still be arguable though.

Yes, but the Trunks special isn't really consistant with the rest of the series. Gohan is a powerful Super Saiya-jin, who is mysteriously stunned by being punched into roller coaster support beams (which do not break) and a window. (which he doesn't even crash through. It just shatters and falls on him.) He's also stronger than both #17 and #18 put together in their second fight. Which makes no sense, considering Trunks's "Oh no, Goku -- the Androids are a nightmare. No way to beat them!" attitude.

That's why I usually prefer to reference the manga issue when discussing this particular topic. (which, IIRC, doesn't show the fight scenes -- we're only shown that Trunks and Gohan are completely helpless against the Artificial Humans.)

Muten Turtel · Post by **Muten Turtel** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:54 pm

I think we strayed from the point anyway. Either one is definately weaker than Brolly or Bojack right?

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