Cooler's form(s)...

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:35 pm

...so, I was recently rewatching the scene where Cooler's transformed in movie five and he says--granted this is the dub so help me if it's wrong--that he was already 'in his third transformed state', which is what Freeza calls his final form (and oddly enough, the brothers do look similar) and that he had found 'a form beyond that one). Does that mean the second form we see him in is a 'fifth' form/fourth transformed state??

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:38 pm

He says he "found" a form beyond the one Freeza had which sort of confuses me because Freeza's explanation of the transformations made them sound like they were controlled and he knew what was going to happen.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:38 pm

Yes. That is exactly what it means.

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:13 pm

Coola and Freeza in there final forms didn't really look similar at all, Coola had more of an exoskeleton like form, Freeza just looked kinda like a stereotypical Alien with a Tail and more facial features.

Fossilgojir · Post by **Fossilgojir** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:19 pm

The Time Traveller wrote:Coola and Freeza in there final forms didn't really look similar at all, Coola had more of an exoskeleton like form, Freeza just looked kinda like a stereotypical Alien with a Tail and more facial features.

I think he ment their "real" forms, since's Cooler's final form is just a power-up styled transformation opposed to Freeza's which get (got?) closer to his actual form.

Krakabeast · Post by **Krakabeast** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:17 pm

Coola is a badass. Nuff said. Yes fifth form.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:50 pm

Hmm, Frieza's final form was supposed to be his 'true' form, while the forms before it were purposely powered-down forms he created, isn't that the case? But King Cold alone always confused me, I dunno if he was in Frieza's 'second form' or if he was just a really huge version of first form.

Cooler's extra transformation might be something more comparable to a Super Saiyajin, a form that goes beyond the power of the base form (which was Frieza in his 'final form' I think) by changing the body's capacity?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:38 pm

Okay, here's the way I've always figured it to work, and I think it's pretty sensible and simple. I even slapped together a quick chart for ease of reference.

I'll just go through each form or set of forms one at a time, to be thorough. Since I believe a lot of confusion about them stems from trying to label them with numbers, I won't even call them by such. So I made up my own names for the groups. I'll also call the race "Changelings," which I as far as I know isn't official, but I don't wanna have to type out "members of Freeza's race" every time I have to mention them.

"Natural" Form -

Thanks to dialogue in the story, it's heavily implied that this is the form Changelings are born in. In addition to the statement, it does appear to be the most casual, practical, and comfortable looking of all of them in appearance and in this stage, all the Changeling's power is unrestricted and available to them.

Obviously, Changelings aren't all just clones of each other. So different individuals have different colored skin or differently-shaped glass-like patches, the same way humans would have different-colored hair or Saiyans have different-shaped hair. These changes are reflected in their various transformed states, as well.

Some especially talented Changelings are apparently even able to bulk themselves up and tap into even more power within their Natural state in various ways.

Another supporting factor for this being their natural, birthed state rather than just one in a chain, is my man Cooler. This is the form he reverted to as he was being pushed into the sun, and was also the one his various mechanical bodies were modeled after by the Big Gheti Star.

"Restrictive" Forms -

This is where things get tricky. Where do these forms come from? I personally believe physiologically, Changelings aren't very good at controlling their power. So as they gain strength in their Natural Form by whatever means they usually do, I believe they naturally gain more and more of these restrictive forms. They're actually a step backwards, serving as blocks to the Changeling's raw power, to make up for their inability to restrict it themselves. Best comparison I have is to locks in a canal. With each stage, you let in more and more water until you're at the desired height.

Relatively weak Changelings may only end up with one form, which I believe was the one Freeza started out in when we first saw him on Namek, because it, like the natural form, was the most convenient in terms of size and practicability. But ones with enough might to rule the Universe like Freeza can end up with multiple restrictive forms. Each form lets out a little more and more needed power in exchange for giving up that ease of use and smaller size.

We know Freeza had three of these Restrictive Forms, and I'm pretty sure Cooler stated he had that many as well. Makes sense, since they were about even in power while in their Natural Forms. Cold, however, is debatable. I personally think he just had two restrictive forms, the one we saw him in (which was Freeza's "second" form, with the large stature and the angled horns) being the "top" one he was capable of before transcending back into his Natural Form. I say this because I get the feeling that if Cold were as strong as Freeza, and thus had as many restrictive forms needed to hold back his power, then he would have transformed and fought Trunks instead of trying bargain with and trick him.

"Super" Form -

This form is completely unrelated to the Restrictive forms, and is actually their complete opposite. Rather than holding back the power of the Natural Form, it surpasses and transcends it. Cooler, through his sheer ingenuity and badassery, was the only one we saw in this form, and I'm pretty sure it was something special.

I believe the way it works is being a more effective way Cooler found to channel and use his full power in his Natural form. Think of it this way: If a Changeling's natural form is Super Saiyan, then Freeza's bulked-up and stressful "100%" was like Trunks and Vegeta's "Super Saiyan Grade 2 and 3," and Cooler's "Super" Form was more like Gohan and Goku's "Mastered Super Saiyan" or even Super Saiyan 2. Both are tapping into the same power, but one does it in a better way than the other.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:45 pm

Well done Kaboom, that chart makes a lot of sense out of the subject.

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 · Post by **Super Saiyan Turlast x4** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:51 pm

Yeah, that definitely was well put, Kaboom. Please don't mind if I steal it to enlighten people, kay?

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:46 pm

I agree, Kaboom. That's exactly what I was trying to say, but explained a lot better.

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:02 am

So he's like Super Saiyan or Super Namek?

Is there such a thing as Super Human?

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:18 am

The Time Traveller wrote:So he's like Super Saiyan or Super Namek?

Is there such a thing as Super Human?

All the Z Senshi from Earth are super human.

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:48 am

SSJ2bardock wrote:
The Time Traveller wrote:So he's like Super Saiyan or Super Namek?

Is there such a thing as Super Human?
All the Z Senshi from Earth are super human.

Oh yeah.

They fly around, shoot energy, power up, "Is there such a thing as Super Human?", that was staring me in the face.

Krakabeast · Post by **Krakabeast** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:06 pm

The battle between SSJ Goku and Coola should have been at least 5 minutes longer than it was. Could have been an intense battle.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:38 pm

Krakabeast wrote:The battle between SSJ Goku and Coola should have been at least 5 minutes longer than it was. Could have been an intense battle.

Don't you remember what happened the last time such a fight was only supposed to last "five minutes?"

Krakabeast · Post by **Krakabeast** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:57 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:
Krakabeast wrote:The battle between SSJ Goku and Coola should have been at least 5 minutes longer than it was. Could have been an intense battle.
Don't you remember what happened the last time such a fight was only supposed to last "five minutes?"

Ha Ha. Well it's not like Earth was gonna blow up during the Goku and Coola battle. Freeza just had problems telling time. I guess he figured that out when Namek finally met its end after an hour from the time Freeza stated that.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:02 pm

I actually see three explanations for Cooler (and Cold). Two in-universe and one out.

Out of Universe Explanation: Toriyama forgot/dropped the whole '4th form is the real form' thing after (or even during) the Freeza saga. Evidence for this exists in Cold being apparently in his 'second form' and not transforming to fight Trunks and Cooler having a 5th form (which was designed by Toriyama who made no complaints about such an occurance).

In Universe Explanation 1: Freeza was just being arrogant in calling this 4th form his true form and the others supressed forms. Much like of Vegeta had said SSJ2 was his true form, or Cell claimed his Perfect Form was his true form.

In Universe Explanation 2: Cooler figured out how to reverse the process used to make the weaker forms. IE, instead of buff up like Freeza did through powering up he had the means to form a new body (like he can with his supressed forms) to contain the power instead. Thus avoiding the strain that Freeza experienced at 100% while being able to fight at his full power.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:04 pm

Krakabeast wrote:The battle between SSJ Goku and Coola should have been at least 5 minutes longer than it was. Could have been an intense battle.

You can shove it. That was the best possible scene, when Cooler punched Goku in the gut and Goku just glared at him without moving an inch.

Krakabeast · Post by **Krakabeast** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:14 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Krakabeast wrote:The battle between SSJ Goku and Coola should have been at least 5 minutes longer than it was. Could have been an intense battle.
You can shove it. That was the best possible scene, when Cooler punched Goku in the gut and Goku just glared at him without moving an inch.

Coola just threw a lousy punch. He was having a bad day. Coola would of destroyed SSJ Goku with a pinch of his power....I wish. *tear & sniffle* No but really I'm sure Coola would of put up a better fight, but he was kinda distracted by the sun and wasn't paying attention to anything else. Just like a deer caught in the headlights.