Saiyan Civil War and Goku's Mother

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:02 am

Does anybody know where Toriyama first came up with the idea for the Saiyan Civil War, or have any other details about it other than that it took place? I can't remember the interview or find any info other than the daizenshuu 7's entry for the year 735, but when you look at the filler stuff, it seems strongly hinted at:

1) Bardock is resentful for being a Low Level Saiyan when his PL is 10,000, a level that should put him amongst the super elite. Perhaps Bardock was a member of the Elite of the losing side?

2) When Krillin + co.'s spirits get sent to planet Vegeta to train, there are Saiyan bodies everywhere, hinting that a series of major battles took place. Was this post-Civil War?

3) I forgot what the third point was. I'll come back and edit this later when I remember/when someone points it out.

Also, why is it listed that Goku's mother survived the destruction of planet Vegeta, only to die of a disease later that year (hell, before Goku even reaches Earth!)? Was this an unused note on Toriyama's part (like how the Saibamen were created by Saiyans, not Freeza's scientists), or perhaps to foreshadow Goku's heart disease?

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:14 am

Wha!?!?

I'm total ignorant to this subject? Can you explain?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:26 am

Forgotten Hero wrote:Wha!?!?

I'm total ignorant to this subject? Can you explain?

In the daizenshuu chronology, there are two very random notes in the last years of the Saiyan Empire's existence:

735: -Relations between the Saiyans and Freeza begin breaking down.
-Civil War breaks out on Planet Vegeta between the Saiyans.

736: -Birth of Krillin

737: -Birth of Kakarotto.
-The armies of Vegeta conquer the planets Kanassa and Meat.
-Freeza subdues King Vegeta's revolte. He declares war on the Saiyans.
-Bardock, the father of Goku, dies in combat.
-Freeza annihilates planet Vegeta.
-Kakarotto escapes the destruction abord a saiyan pod headed for Earth.
-Birth of Chichi, daughter of Gyumao.
-The mother of Kakarotto dies of a disease.
-Between June and August, Goku is discovered by the older Gohan who gives him the name "Son Goku."

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:31 am

Goku's mom? She escaped Vegeta? Is it even confirmed if she was a Saiyajin?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:35 am

Forgotten Hero wrote:Goku's mom? She escaped Vegeta? Is it even confirmed if she was a Saiyajin?

While technically no, it really, really is implied that she is, what with Goku being a full-blooded Saiyan and all.

My guess is she was on a mission, like Radditz, Vegeta and Nappa, when she died of the disease. The only thing is, why bring up the fact that she was alive at all, only to kill her off before the story, anyway?

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:44 am

Yeah, and it seems odd she would be away from Vegeta right after giving birth. Kinda like the case SaiyaJedi brought up on the podcast, this past week, about Celipa being Goku's mom, not true of course.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:45 am

Forgotten Hero wrote:Yeah, and it seems odd she would be away from Vegeta right after giving birth.

Just out of curiosity...why?

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:48 am

Rocketman wrote:
Forgotten Hero wrote:Yeah, and it seems odd she would be away from Vegeta right after giving birth.
Just out of curiosity...why?

Indeed. Everyone knows that planetary conquest and genocide are the best ways to shed that leftover weight from a pregnancy ;p

-Corey

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:52 am

But right after birth? This only my opinion, but it just seems illogical to go right back to conquest. Maybe Saiyajin women have an easier time recovering from birth or the medical technology is advance enough to allow Saiyajin women to go back to war?
Like Dayspring said, stating Goku's mom's death is just a really random comment.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:04 am

It makes sense for Saiyans: they're too stupid/stubborn to rest when they need it (case in point: Goku training when in a full-body cast after fighting Vegeta). That and they habe both better healing abilities and access to healing tanks.

But why a disease? If she off-world, fine; she's one of the off-world Saiyans killed like Toma was. But why a disease?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:09 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:Indeed. Everyone knows that planetary conquest and genocide are the best ways to shed that leftover weight from a pregnancy ;p

Since they burn lots of calories...yes?

But why a disease? If she off-world, fine; she's one of the off-world Saiyans killed like Toma was. But why a disease?

STD from that manwhore Bardock.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:09 am

Random...
A comment on Goku, when he is training injured. It just seems like something he would do anyway. Saiyajin or human. It's just his personality.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:12 am

Perhaps as you had mentioned, at some point it was going to be revealed that Kakarrot had a predisposition for a certain heart ailment, which would explain why he suffered it later in the Artificial Human story arch. Alternatively, perhaps (I am stretching here) Mr. Toriyama wanted to work her into a future storyline.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:31 am

Rocketman wrote:
But why a disease? If she off-world, fine; she's one of the off-world Saiyans killed like Toma was. But why a disease?
STD from that manwhore Bardock.

HEY!

Honestly I think they just couldn't come up with anything better.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:48 am

I'm curious to know more about Goku's mom; now that we have proof that she was almost used in a storyline. What was her name, what was she like, is she where Raditsu inherited his massive hair?

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:41 am

HMMM! This leads me to have blind faith in that the upcoming Dragonball Z special will give us a glimpse of Goku's mother! An actual appearance! No whammies no whammies STOP!

( I don't even know if I'm using that line right.

)

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:26 am

Chuquita wrote:I'm curious to know more about Goku's mom; now that we have proof that she was almost used in a storyline. What was her name, what was she like, is she where Raditsu inherited his massive hair?

The most common fan name for her is "Taanipu" or Turnip, she looks very similar to Raditz, with a widows peak and long hair.

I'm really not that interested in knowing about Goku's mother, the fact that we don't, tells us a lot about how the Saiya-jin interact with each other.

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:39 am

Didn't Raditz state that his father and mother were vaporized in the planet's explosion?

Why would the Daizenshuu add a tidbit that directly contradicts spoken dialogue like that?

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:55 am

Casual Matt wrote:Didn't Raditz state that his father and mother were vaporized in the planet's explosion?

Why would the Daizenshuu add a tidbit that directly contradicts spoken dialogue like that?

Doesn't Vegeta say before he dies: "He (Freeza) killed your father, and my father, the King too!".
Also, all I remember Raditz saying is that Goku looks like his father, and that their planet exploded

. Maybe he did say that their parent died aswell, but I am not sure of that.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:29 am

Casual Matt wrote:Didn't Raditz state that his father and mother were vaporized in the planet's explosion?

Why would the Daizenshuu add a tidbit that directly contradicts spoken dialogue like that?

The Daizenshuu contradicts a lot of the filler that took place in the anime. Are you sure that that line was in the manga?