Controlling your ki?

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Endishiki
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Controlling your ki?

Post by Endishiki » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:47 pm

Y'know, characters earlier on in DBZ were able to create truly earth-shattering, sky-rending, destructo-riffic attacks.

Later on, despite the fact that the characters were more powerful than before, they made less property damage. As an example, when Vegita lets his full power loose against Goku at the beginning of their big fight, it more or less makes the entire battlefield, if not the entire world, shake. Later on, when Gohan goes into SSj2 mode against Cell, he... makes a crater, with lots of dust. Not quite as destructive. Hell, Majin Vegita, who is supposed to be equal to or greater than an SSj2 form, makes a few mountains explode when he gets mad, and not much else.

The argument goes that the characters are actually becoming weaker, because they can't generate as much environmentally damaging power...

And then GT comes along. Or, rather, one of the later episodes. It is episode 43, which is on DVD 9, "Calculations". Goku is trapped in Hell, about to fight with Freeza and Cell. After the usual bit of trashtalking, the two villains unleash their power and begin screaming, naturally. Goku then says something along the lines of "All you've done is forgotten how to control your power (ki?)!"

And while it's a random Toei line that most likely doesn't really make any difference at all, could it actually have some meaning? Is the fact that the characters cause less earth-shattering damage over time due to the fact that they're gaining the ability to control their ki far better than before? Or am I simply off my rocker? :lol:

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Post by Deus ex Machina » Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:16 pm

Actually, that would make a whole lot of sense, that the property damage is going down because the fighters can now control their Ki better.

More likely however, Toriyama had really raised the Ki destruction bar between the Saiyan and Freeza saga, since he planned to finish the series there. But since the series didn't end, he was pretty much forced to bring it down a-bit, or else the Earth would be nearly destroyed every time somebody powered up or attacked.

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Post by *PINHEAD* » Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:44 pm

I agree with Deus. I remember reading the DB manga (or seeing the anime...) about one of the characters "narrowing the beam," if you will, as to control a powerful ki blast. The things you mentioned earlier are different cases...powering up, transforming, etc...These are most likely caused by the character not controlling his power. This is the reason Vegeta accepted the Majin thing--to allow himself freedom to cut loose. Not like he really did, but think of his suicidal blow-up thing he did on Majin Boo; he manipulated his ki to unleash itself in an uncontrolled manner, thus causing a huge crater. Of course, he controlled enough as to not destroy the planet.

Umm...quality over quantity?
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Post by Endishiki » Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:57 pm

*PINHEAD* wrote:I agree with Deus. I remember reading the DB manga (or seeing the anime...) about one of the characters "narrowing the beam," if you will, as to control a powerful ki blast. The things you mentioned earlier are different cases...powering up, transforming, etc...These are most likely caused by the character not controlling his power. This is the reason Vegeta accepted the Majin thing--to allow himself freedom to cut loose. Not like he really did, but think of his suicidal blow-up thing he did on Majin Boo; he manipulated his ki to unleash itself in an uncontrolled manner, thus causing a huge crater. Of course, he controlled enough as to not destroy the planet.

Umm...quality over quantity?
I believe that beam was Vegita's "Final Flash". Mirai Trunks mentioned something about his narrowing the attack just right to hit Cell, or something along those lines. (Shortly before Cell goes 'nyah nyah nyah nyah' and regenerates...)

I can accept Toriyama having to comrpomise the destruction... with Freeza being able to slice a damned planet in half, Vegita's Big Bang Attack or Final Flash (being several times stronger) likely would've taken out a rather large wedge of Earth, at the very least... hell, Piccolo's super attack against Imperfect Cell would've done a lot more than make an island or two explode. Who would've thunk that Toriyama would be trying to aim for restraint?

I don't fully understand Vegita unleashing his power but controlling it at the same time, but Vegita never did make a whole lot of sense during that period.

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Post by Kam » Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:55 pm

Until Buruma came around he couldn't care less about the Earth's safety.

Thats why he started holding back.

It was also the mention of Buruma that brought him to his senses.

Topic:

Control is the key here. You can have power and still focus it so that you dont damage the world around you. For example, if you were a blackbelt who couldnt control your stength, you'd break people's hands by shaking them.

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Post by Jerseymilk » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:06 pm

Kam wrote: For example, if you were a blackbelt who couldnt control your stength, you'd break people's hands by shaking them.

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That comparison actually doesn't make sense. There's no way you'd get to the level of black belt if you couldn't control your strength.
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Post by Kam » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:07 pm

That is true.
ironically, the stronger you get the less you actually use.

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Post by PsyLiam » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:03 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:That comparison actually doesn't make sense. There's no way you'd get to the level of black belt if you couldn't control your strength.
Blackbelt is more about technique than strength, though. And I know several people who claim that the belt system in karate (and certain other martial arts) is ever so slightly bollocks, for reasons I can't recall at the moment.
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Post by oponok » Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:23 am

Your explanation would make sense, when comparing Goku's Kamehameha in the Saiyan saga with Freeza little pink "death beam." It'd be the equivalent of focusing a nuclear blast in a tiny little laser, whereas Goku's big ol' ki wave was more like...uh... something to a significantly lesser extent blasted out into a big open space. Also, consider Vegetto, the strongest character in all of Dragonball. He didn't cause massive amounts of destruction, so perhaps he learned to focus his power in mostly physical attacks, rather than in ki blasts.

The more I watch that part of the Buu saga, the more I like Vegetto. He was subtly bad-ass, in that he never NEEDED to show off his power every second.

In-story-wise, your theory sounds like a good explanation, but I think the true reason is that Toriyama hadn't planned on going past the Namek saga.
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