Kanzentai Battle Power Guide

[Herms]

----Notice:This old thread is part of my series of guides. To avoid necro-posting, please post any comments you have in the sticky thread for my guides, rather than here. Thanks!----

So over at Kanzentai, we’ve completed our new Battle Power Guide, in order to go along with our appearance on episode 188 of the podcast.

First are a few pages providing some context for battle powers. The “What Are Battle Powers?” page explains the concept, while the “Battle Powers as a Story Idea” page explains possible influences on Toriyama in developing the concept, and similar ideas in other series, and the “Translation History” page goes over the various translations of the term and where they come from.

But the main section of the guide is “Battle Powers in the Manga”, which has scans of every manga panel that mentions specific battle powers, with my own translation of the dialogue. To see the manga scan for each BP, click on the line that lists the BP’s chapter, page, and panel number. We’ve included kiri as well.

Then the “Battle Powers in the Anime” page has anime clips of all the battle powers mentioned in the anime (like with the manga page, to see the clip click on the line that lists the episode or movie number). And the “Battle Powers in the Guidebooks” page has scans of all the daizenshuu, SEG, and Jump pages dealing with battle powers.

Finally, the “Combined Battle Power List” is, well, a combined list of all the BPS mentioned on the manga, anime, and guidebook pages, marked according to their source. You can also click on each BP to be taken to the place where it’s mentioned on the other pages.

[VenomSymbiote]

A POWER LEVEL GUIDE?! THAT ISN'T POSSIBLE!

That was my first reaction, but this isn't the same as the rest. Good job!

[Amigo Ten]

For some reason I thought there'd be more Jump scans and such about power levels. I've heard quite a few times now that Coola's power was published at some point, with him at 400'000'000 in the final form.

[Herms]

For some reason I thought there'd be more Jump scans and such about power levels. I've heard quite a few times now that Coola's power was published at some point, with him at 400'000'000 in the final form.

Ultimately we didn't include those BPs for Coola that were supposedly printed in V-Jump because no scan of them has ever surfaced, and even the Japanese Wikipedia page for DBZ movie 5 doesn't mention them anymore. And while there's no scan for the Weekly Jump page with Sauzer and co.'s BPs either, looking through the history of the the Wikipedia page it shows that the BP information was added in at the same time as the rest of the notes on the Weekly Jump background information for them (Sauzer speaks 7,000 languages, etc), and all of the rest of that info has been confirmed through official guidebooks and whatnot. So essentially, whoever wrote about the BPs for Sauzer and co. was right about all the background info they wrote about, so I think it's fair to assume that they're right about the BPs too. Whereas whoever added the information about Coola's BPs added that and nothing else, didn't give any specific issue or even year that this appeared in V-Jump, and ultimately the other people who maintain the Japanese Wikipedia pages for DB stuff didn't find the information credible enough to keep around. So unless a scan turns up, I don't think the Coola BPs are credible enough to mention on the site.

[Onikage725]

Which is possibly why Coola's BP smelled like BS...

[JulieYBM]

I just love how Herms is copying and pasting himself tonight. :p


Outstanding work good chaps, now fetch me a timeline guide!

[Hujio]

I just love how Herms is copying and pasting himself tonight. :p

He is getting awfully good at it, isn't he?

Outstanding work good chaps, now fetch me a timeline guide!

It's in the works... promise!

We actually have a couple good "DB Mini Guide" ideas. Now we just have to figure out when we can actually get them done...

[Kaboom]

Which is possibly why Coola's BP smelled like BS...

Agreed. The numbers for his henchlings made perfect sense, but the number for Cooler's 5th form seemed absurdly high. Glad it's not as official as we thought it was.

[Herms]

Agreed. The numbers for his henchlings made perfect sense, but the number for Cooler's 5th form seemed absurdly high. Glad it's not as official as we thought it was.

One thing to keep in mind is that if the BPs for Coola's forms came out around the same time as the movie (assuming they're legit of course), then that would mean they came out long before there were only official BPs for Freeza's 100% full power or SSJ Goku, since as far as I know those only came out in 1996 in Daizenshuu 7. 470 million can't really seem too high for Coola if there's no set BP for Freeza or SSJ Goku. But then, that's another thing that makes me question the authenticity of those BPs: if they came out in V-Jump around the time DBZ movie 5 premiered, there'd be no real standard of comparision for them to base the numbers on, and if they came out after Daizenshuu 7, why would V-Jump be publishing stuff on Coola so long after the movie came out? This isn't solid proof that they're BS by any means, but it does add to my doubts.

[Senzu_Bean]

Awesome work! With so many fan-made battle powers out there a legit list is really what we need.

[Shoryuken]

For some reason I thought there'd be more Jump scans and such about power levels. I've heard quite a few times now that Coola's power was published at some point, with him at 400'000'000 in the final form.

Ultimately we didn't include those BPs for Coola that were supposedly printed in V-Jump because no scan of them has ever surfaced, and even the Japanese Wikipedia page for DBZ movie 5 doesn't mention them anymore. And while there's no scan for the Weekly Jump page with Sauzer and co.'s BPs either, looking through the history of the the Wikipedia page it shows that the BP information was added in at the same time as the rest of the notes on the Weekly Jump background information for them (Sauzer speaks 7,000 languages, etc), and all of the rest of that info has been confirmed through official guidebooks and whatnot. So essentially, whoever wrote about the BPs for Sauzer and co. was right about all the background info they wrote about, so I think it's fair to assume that they're right about the BPs too. Whereas whoever added the information about Coola's BPs added that and nothing else, didn't give any specific issue or even year that this appeared in V-Jump, and ultimately the other people who maintain the Japanese Wikipedia pages for DB stuff didn't find the information credible enough to keep around. So unless a scan turns up, I don't think the Coola BPs are credible enough to mention on the site.

What about this
http://www.geocities.jp/outer_z/data/tobikkiri.jpg

[Herms]

What about this
http://www.geocities.jp/outer_z/data/tobikkiri.jpg

That scan with Coola and co. doesn't mention Coola's BP at all, as far as I can see (some of it is pretty hard to read). It does however mention that Sauzer and co. have enough battle power to destroy 7 planets in 1 day, though this is mentioned in the movie.

[Hujio]

What about this
http://www.geocities.jp/outer_z/data/tobikkiri.jpg

That scan with Coola and co. doesn't mention Coola's BP at all, as far as I can see (some of it is pretty hard to read). It does however mention that Sauzer and co. have enough battle power to destroy 7 planets in 1 day, though this is mentioned in the movie.

Oddly enough, it appears that image has been taken down or something. I could view it the other day, but now it's gone. Wonder why...?

[Bussani]

What about this
http://www.geocities.jp/outer_z/data/tobikkiri.jpg

That scan with Coola and co. doesn't mention Coola's BP at all, as far as I can see (some of it is pretty hard to read). It does however mention that Sauzer and co. have enough battle power to destroy 7 planets in 1 day, though this is mentioned in the movie.

Oddly enough, it appears that image has been taken down or something. I could view it the other day, but now it's gone. Wonder why...?

Geocities is closing down soon. I wonder if that has something to do with it?

[Amigo Ten]

I can see it, so it's still there.

[Bussani]

I can see it, so it's still there.

Doesn't work for me. Are you sure it's not just in your cache?

[JulieYBM]

What about this
http://www.geocities.jp/outer_z/data/tobikkiri.jpg

That scan with Coola and co. doesn't mention Coola's BP at all, as far as I can see (some of it is pretty hard to read). It does however mention that Sauzer and co. have enough battle power to destroy 7 planets in 1 day, though this is mentioned in the movie.

Oddly enough, it appears that image has been taken down or something. I could view it the other day, but now it's gone. Wonder why...?

Lemme give you a hand with my own copy:




Again, it's great having a reliable source for the battle powers now.

[Akira]

The only one on that list that I questioned was Roshi at 180 against Piccolo. Is it perhaps when he powered up for the Mafuba Technique? Maybe that ought to be mentioned? Because he is still listed as 139 when Bulma scans him after the battle with Raditz, which was the same as his power at the 22nd Budokai. Other than that, everything seemed pretty good to me. Glad to have a few more legit numbers to add to my own list that I've kept in a word document.

The recent discussions on this have been quite interesting, and I agree that since many were introduced to Dragonball around the time they were a plot device is why they became so important to fans and led to so many arguments and debates over the years.

I personally feel there are a few more that are determinable via math or strong estimation based on things characters say, but I have always kept my own list within the time frame that power levels were used as a plot device, and never just pulled numbers out of my ass where there was no basis or method of determining them.

One is when Goku first arrives on Namek. We know his normal max is 90,000, and that he is capable of Kaioken x10 at that point. However, he only uses Kaioken x2 when showing Ginyu his "True power". However, he states that even that is "Just warming up" and that he can go beyond that in bursts if need be. Because he never goes beyond that at that point, no higher battle powers are ever given. I think it is safe to assume that in bursts with Kaioken, he could shoot up to a short term max of 900,000 at that point with Kaioken, and is why he had a false confidence in himself that he could possibly take on Freeza.

On my list, I mention 900,000 as Goku's true max with Kaioken x10 at that point, but make a side note that it is referenced in the Manga, but not shown to go that high. It is only small things like that which differenciate my list from the Kanzentai one. My hat is off to them for such an accurate list. I too have come to the conclusion that it is fun to look at as a reference point for that period in the story, but is not the end all, be all explanation for things anymore for Freeza arc. Thanks guys.

[Shoryuken]

So the formula for figuring out the power level of a fused warrior is multiplying the strength of them together.
This does give some pretty huge power levels:
Ex.
Dodoria = 22.000
Zarbon = 23.000

Fusion between the two (22.000*23.000) = 506.000.000

That means they could kill Freezer in his first stage over a hundred times.

[rereboy]

So the formula for figuring out the power level of a fused warrior is multiplying the strength of them together.
This does give some pretty huge power levels:
Ex.
Dodoria = 22.000
Zarbon = 23.000

Fusion between the two (22.000*23.000) = 506.000.000

That means they could kill Freezer in his first stage over a hundred times.

Honestly that doesn`t make any sense.

It does make sense that the fusion creates a warrior stronger than the power of the two previous warriors put together, but it doesn`t make sense that the resulting power is simply a multiplication.

If that was the case it seems impossible that the Kaioshin (when he accidentally fused with his servant with the potara) didn`t become at least stronger than SSJ 2 Vegeta.

And as we see from the fight with kid buu, the kaioshin decided to retreat, leaving the matter with Goku and Vegeta, because he considered them more capable than him to deal with it. Otherwise he wouldn`t leave, he would help out, if he was at least as strong or more than SSJ 2 Vegeta.

As we know, SSJ 2 is supposed to be a x100 multiplication. That means that if Vegeta had a huge base power level, lets says, a power level of 2 000 000 000, his SSJ 2 would have a power level of 200 000 000 000.

Now, if the kaioshin had a power level of 1 000 000 (which is very low since the kaioshins are said to be able to kill Freeza with a single hit, and Freeza`s second form was above a million) and his servant had a power level of 500 000 (less than Freeza`s first form), using the rule of simply multiplying their power level, their fusion should have a power level of 500 000 000 000.

Thats more than double the power level of SSJ 2 Vegeta with a base power level of 2 000 000 000.

Since the kaioshin and his servant are certainly stronger than the numbers I used, and the base form of Vegeta might not be so high, I am forced to conclude that from the story point of view it doesn`t make any sense to just multiply the power levels to determine the power level of a fused fighter.

Now, I do agree that fusing is very powerful and gives the fighter much more than the two fighters`powers combined, but I can not agree to that formula since it doesn`t make sense. At least in the battle power or power level numerical system it doesn`t make sense.

A perhaps more correct formula would be this: (power level of fighter A + power level of fighter B) x Y