Raditz Cutting off Tail

[Lavender Saiyan]

I was searching the old "Ask Daiz EX" archives and came across this. What are your opinions?

Q.Here's a good 'un (at least, in my opinion):

Involving the fight with Goku and Piccolo against Raditz, Goku eventually grabs Raditz' tail, rendering him powerless, right? As long as Goku holds his tail, Raditz can't seem to even lift a finger to stop him, right?Now, let's jump to the end of the fight, after Raditz tricks Goku to let him go, and just after Gohan intervenes. Raditz is about to kill Gohan, when Goku grabs Raditz in a Full-Nelson, and yells at Piccolo to unleash his attack. Piccolo then asks Goku why he doesn't simply grab Raditz' tail again, and Goku replies with "Cuz, if he knows it, he'll cut his tail off!", to which Raditz replies "You know?!".

My question is, what exactly did Goku mean by that? Raditz also seemed to fully understand the "secret" that Goku was talking about (as shown in his reply). I don't believe it's ever shown in the manga or anime, but did Goku mean it's possible for a Saiya-jin to simply "make" his tail detach when no other option is available? At first I thought he meant that the Saiya-jin would simply chop his tail off with his hand, but they can't seem to move in the slightest when their tail is being squeezed (which is why I brought up that part with Raditz at the start of this email). Goku might've forgotten about that when he first grabbed Raditz' tail, meaning that (since Raditz knows about it, too) Raditz would've waited for Piccolo to unleash his attack (if Goku wouldn't listen to his pleas), quickly make his tail detach (with no other option to save himself available), and be free to attack them. It seems that after Gohan's attack, the memory of the "detachment trick" could've come back to Goku, resulting in him not taking a chance with grabbing Raditz' tail again (a smart move indeed, since, like I've stated, Raditz' apparently knows the trick), and grabbing him in a Full-Nelson instead. If this Saiya-jin tail trick exists at all, it seems to be a last resort for the captive Saiya-jin.

Yeesh, sorry to go on and on, but this has been bugging me for the longest time, and I wanted to cover all information given in the manga. Any speculation on all this would be great. Maybe I've missed something, but this is the most sense that I can make out of the tiny bit of dialogue that Piccolo, Goku, and Raditz exchange regarding this subject in the manga. - Clay Reynolds

A. Argh, you just HAD to send a question that would make me THINK, didn't you?! Why couldn't it be a nice and easy one like about "We Gotta Power" ?! ;_;

You've got a good point, though... it makes no sense. I, too, would assume that it just meant that Raditz would cut his own tail off. But... you're right... wouldn't he be unable to move?

*scratches head* I can only assume that it's just a poorly-worded scene. Maybe he would have somehow mustered the strength to swipe at his tail and cut it off, but it's pretty unlikely, judging by the way he moves in the scene (which is, needless to say... he can't move very well).

So yeah. It doesn't make much sense, so it's probably just badly worded :

[the_abberration]

I believe Goku meant that Raditz would just cut his own tail off (if he sensed Goku trying to grab it again, had the strength to reach it, etc.). Being an adult, he may not have been as helpless as Goku was when he was a kid. The weakness from their tail being grabbed might have applied to others grabbing it. For example if you are ticklish, other people are able to tickle you, but you are not supposed to be able to tickle yourself (something about the nerve endings). So if he saw Goku going for it again, he could have pulled back and cut it himself.

Also, I recall when Goku fought Gohan in the original Dragonball series. As long as he held his tail while slamming him, Goku could not move. However, once it broke off Goku was able to move (run around screaming at the top of his lungs in pain actually). So he could have just tried falling foward and let gravity (and luck) take it's course.

[Alucard]

First of all, let's see the dialogue:
Piccolo: Why didn't you grab his tail!?

Son Goku: If he decided to, he could cut off his tail on his own!

Raditz: Y- you knew about that?

Basically, I think Goku didn't want to take the chance of Raditz noticing him approaching and cutting off his tail off before Goku grabs it, so if he would catch him in a Full-Nelson, Raditz will have a lesser chance to get away.

Another thing is, that this is the first and only time we hear about such an ability, and by the time Nappa and Vegeta came, this was unnecessary due to the strengthening of their tales, so it vanished and never heard of again (dramatic, ain't I?).

[desirecampbell]

The breaking pint here is that if Raditz could have removed his tail while it was being held, he would have done so the first time Goku grabbed it. Goku must be referring to the fact that Raditz could have pulled it out, or chopped it off before Goku grabbed it again.

[Pieter]

The breaking pint here is that if Raditz could have removed his tail while it was being held, he would have done so the first time Goku grabbed it. Goku must be referring to the fact that Raditz could have pulled it out, or chopped it off before Goku grabbed it again.

Or not. Raditz could have let go before getting shot the first time, but he didn't want to yet because his tail is quite precious.

[Alucard]

The breaking pint here is that if Raditz could have removed his tail while it was being held, he would have done so the first time Goku grabbed it. Goku must be referring to the fact that Raditz could have pulled it out, or chopped it off before Goku grabbed it again.

Or not. Raditz could have let go before getting shot the first time, but he didn't want to yet because his tail is quite precious.

His tail is more precious than his life? He knew that the Makankosappo is very strong, strong enough to kill him, so if he could remove his tail and get away when goku grabbed it (even if it means not turning Oozaru, but possibly the tail will grow once more), he would have done it.

[Pieter]

The breaking pint here is that if Raditz could have removed his tail while it was being held, he would have done so the first time Goku grabbed it. Goku must be referring to the fact that Raditz could have pulled it out, or chopped it off before Goku grabbed it again.

Or not. Raditz could have let go before getting shot the first time, but he didn't want to yet because his tail is quite precious.

His tail is more precious than his life? He knew that the Makankosappo is very strong, strong enough to kill him, so if he could remove his tail and get away when goku grabbed it (even if it means not turning Oozaru, but possibly the tail will grow once more), he would have done it.

What I'm saying is that he would have let go off it after realizing begging didn't work, before the Makankosapo hits.

[Tyro]

I doubt there'd be enough time to do that, Pieter. Even when fully aware that there was a Makankosappo already prepared Raditz still was barely able to get out of the way anyway. Getting his shoulder hurt.

[Ex-Dubbie369]

I doubt there'd be enough time to do that, Pieter. Even when fully aware that there was a Makankosappo already prepared Raditz still was barely able to get out of the way anyway. Getting his shoulder hurt.

But "He's faster than the speed of light!"

[gohanku]

Same here, mostly he was talking about Raditz sensing him and just cutting off his tail to avoid the grabbing. I mean when Goku's tail is grabbed, he still can move, weak but still able to move. Gohan took his tail and before Goku could fight back or run away, Gohan swing him till it came out. So I guess it would be Goku would grab Raditz's tail, then with whatever strength left in Raditz, he would use it to cut his own tail off.

[Coola Yagami]

In other words, Goku mean, if they go for Raditz' tail too much, he'll get wise to it, chop his own tail off and say 'alright, whatcha gonna do now?'

[Soluzar]

The breaking pint here is that if Raditz could have removed his tail while it was being held, he would have done so the first time Goku grabbed it. Goku must be referring to the fact that Raditz could have pulled it out, or chopped it off before Goku grabbed it again.

Or not. Raditz could have let go before getting shot the first time, but he didn't want to yet because his tail is quite precious.

I'm inclined to put some weight behind this notion, since as Vegeta pointed out, the Oozaru transformation gives a Sayajin a 10x increase in power level. That's an awfully big bonus to give up forever. The Oozaru transformation is probably much more important to the other Sayajin than it is to the relatively friendly Son Goku. To judge from Raditz's dialogue, it's an important tool they may use while conquering worlds.

[Anonymous Friend]

I have a side question regarding this:

When Goku and Gohan first lose thier tails they have a very hard time keeping balance and walking properly, but when Vegeta's tail is taken off he has no problem and infact continues to pummel the Z fighter's even to the point of taken out an Great Ape Gohan. Shouldn't he have had the same problem or does the fact that he and Nappa trained their tails to not be a hinderance have something to do with it?

[TriforceCaptre]

I have a side question regarding this:

When Goku and Gohan first lose thier tails they have a very hard time keeping balance and walking properly, but when Vegeta's tail is taken off he has no problem and infact continues to pummel the Z fighter's even to the point of taken out an Great Ape Gohan. Shouldn't he have had the same problem or does the fact that he and Nappa trained their tails to not be a hinderance have something to do with it?

I'd say the fact that they keep their tails wrapped around their waists would help, unlike Goku and Gohan who just let them out.

[Lavender Saiyan]

Now think, we're talking about Raditz. If he saw Goku coming for his tail, why wouldn't he just didge if he had time to cut his tail off. Dodging is quicker. I think that even though you become weak when your tail is grabbed, you still retain some power. For example, I don't think that a normal average Human could beat Raditz if his tail was grabbed. He still has some power, just nothing compared to his 1200+.

[Drabaz]

I think it means that Raditz could muster up enough strength to chop it off.

But in all reality, I think the main reason is that Goku had to die. If Goku had just grabbed his tail, Piccolo could of killed Raditz without harming Goku. But in order to continue the story and send Goku to Kiao-sama, Toriyama brilliantly made it so that Goku put himself in a situation where he had to die to protect the earth.