Episode #0082 (17 June 2007)

[Tatsunoboshi Horoko]

There is an uncut dub of Gatchaman.

Liked this episode.

Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. It was produced by ADV and they promoted the hell out of it in magazines a few years ago.

The episode was a fun listen. I probably would watch a new dub of Dragonball. I mean, I watched/bought the DVD's of the redub of YGO...even though that had the most wooden, stiff, and odd-sounding delivery ever...wait...I hated that redub...Does that null the point I was trying to make, or something?

[Lobster_Rage155]

There is an uncut dub of Gatchaman.

Yes, by ADV. Surprised you guys didn't know about it. Fun episode, nonetheless.

[caejones]

I like hearing Vegeta say "Blast!" for some reason. ^^. *combines with Criky to get Bliky*

The depth... it's... soooo... awesome! And makes me glad I didn't try to record a podcast last week like was planned, because I would have listened to this and gone "Oh... yeah... I forgot the intelligent part...".

New dub? I'd watch bits of it if one was made... but it'd have to be freaking awesome to give the patience to continue with it. Though All of the grunting and yelling... ... *points to cousin playing DBZ by yelling really loudly for long periods of time and then banging action figures together*...

I now have an idea for a podcast topic. To the Jeqave!

Ur... but first: 90's Wolvy wins.

Oh, right! I forgot the reason I decided to post.


Why, at the end of second semester Japanese, (well near the end), while walking to the parking lot with the hand full of Otaku that stayed in the class, did I hear them talking about how much more swearing there was in the Japanese versions of Anime, when we were all in the room for the same "swearing doesn't work the same way in Japanese" discussion?

[Brakus]

-- Sorry, I probably won't go to AnimeNEXT. It's too close to Otakon this year, and there are other issues (location, setup, and some internal convention-related issues) with the convention that I've had problems with.

-- I discussed my thoughts about the whole "ideal dub" or "proper re-dub" in the original thread in greater detail. But get ready for a newsflash - keep your ears open because here it comes: I used to hate -- HATE -- Dragonball Z. I was a typical hater and I made fun of people who watched DBZ. I didn't understand its appeal, and was just so flippant about it. Then came the Podcast, and that's how I got into the show. I opened my mind and now I've gotten into DBZ. And I've watched the English dub keeping in mind how many people don't like it, but I was open minded and took it for what it is. And I enjoyed what I heard. Granted it isn't the best in the world, but I liked it enough to get the DVDs. And I do like to flip around every so often and watch a few episodes in English sometimes and a few in Japanese.

-- Given Mike & Meri's extreme dislike (seemingly) of most English dubs, I'm wondering is there ANY anime series they watched and really enjoyed in English?

-- Mike made a good point - there are crappy shows in Japan, too. Ghost Stories was a bust in Japan when it was released on DVD there. When it was released here, Aniplex gave ADV Films permission to make changes to the anime (while keeping the original story intact) to make it accessible and funnier to an American / English-speaking audience. If Aniplex only allowed ADV Films to do a straight-translation dub of the show, it would have been extremely dry, boring, and too Japanese-y in that you basically have to know what the Japanese customs and such are to get the jokes.

-- Mike & Meri made a couple of points about where these now-famous voice actors got their start, and how most of them have "regular" jobs in addition to the voice acting gig. One very prominent English voice actor started out 15 years ago having no experience and no intention of doing any acting or voiceover as a career, and it wasn't until 8 years ago that this actor quit his day job. Newsflash: voice acting doesn't necessarily pay very well, in the States or in Japan. You'd be surprised how many Japanese also have "regular jobs" in addition to their VO gigs.

-- You brought up all the people on One Piece also famous doing a lot of other anime series as well. It's awesome to see that the same voices are doing all these roles, and it's the same way there in Japan as it is here in the States. Chris Sabat is Armstrong on FMA, Kurubara in Yu Yu Hakusho, and Ayame Sohma in Fruits Basket. Sean Schemmel is Gonard on Kappa Mikey and Onsakamaru in Ninja Nonsense. Scott McNeil is Hoenheim on FMA and Wolverine on X-Men Evolution. It's neat this phenomenon crosses language barriers.

-- A new dub of an existing show does run the risk of alienating viewers. This is not exclusive to DBZ by any means: Saiyuki was first dubbed in English by ADV Studios, but the subsequent Saiyuki Reload and Gunlock series were dubbed in English by Bang Zoom Entertainment. There was tremendous backlash in the English dub community when Reload and Gunlock were released here about not having the original voices on the show (David Matranga, Illeich Guardiola, Greg Ayres, et al.) for those two subsequent seasons. Such is the way of anime licensing these days.

-- In a nutshell, about watching a new "ideal dub", I'd watch it for a while, form an opinion, and I'd check out some of my favorite episodes.

-- Vegeta killing Nappa. Agreed, that was one of the biggest "Vegeta kills...." moments in the series. It's almost not even like "sidekick", it's like Vegeta killing his live-in lover after all this time together. Not to put out those vibes about the two, but still I can't deny it, that it looks like that to me.

-- I must say, Mike seems to be one of the few people that actually like Ocean Group dubs; most people I know aren't really dazzled by Ocean Group's English dub work. But then again, that's just Mike.

This podcast episode is certainly the best serious discussion I've heard thus far. It is DBZ related, it ties into a lot of other anime-related things, and there's lots of great points in the discussion. Pure genius.

[desirecampbell]

It's awesome to see that the same voices are doing all these roles, and it's the same way there in Japan as it is here in the States.

But it happens in Japan because the actors are, um, actually good (okay, and sometimes it's just because they're popular). But over here it seems like these people are simply the only VAs available.

Furthermore, even if all these English VAs were really good, they're still being overused. It's the same actors, the same voices, the same wooden acting, the same voice characterization as every anime they put out. It's like some high school class doing play after play after play - they all come out sounding terrible because all the characters run together.

Have you ever read really bad fan fiction before? Where the "author" decides that they'll change the setting, and the characters' personalities, and (just fr fun) that one's switched genders. That is what almost every dub is to me now.


Using the same voice actor in multiple works is fine. Megumi Hayashibara is in freakin' everything but that's because she's very good (and, okay, she's quite popular as well). She's played Ranma Saotome, (Video Girl) Ai, Rei Ayanami, Faye Valentine, hell, she's even dnone Bulbasaur. The characters don't run together - they're all very different both in plot role and vocal characterization.


Hiring the same actor multiple times is not a bad thing, in fact using good actors repeatedly is a good thing. But they should be used because they're good, not because they're the VAs on staff and Funimation doesn't want to pay for more actors.


But that's just my opinion.

[Sabin Deus]

Using the same voice actor in multiple works is fine. Megumi Hayashibara is in freakin' everything but that's because she's very good (and, okay, she's quite popular as well). She's played Ranma Saotome, (Video Girl) Ai, Rei Ayanami, Faye Valentine, hell, she's even dnone Bulbasaur. The characters don't run together - they're all very different both in plot role and vocal characterization.

Don't forget the amazing Lina Inverse from Slayers! That was pretty much the role I will always remember her for.

[Sabin Deus]

Just because it got mentioned in passing by Julian, I'd like to bring up the only dub I have seriously watched in a long time, and that's The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. It is, unquestionably, the best dub I have ever seen. Every single line perfectly captures not only the original intent and direction, but in most cases the inflection and voicing as well, which you hardly ever see in today's churn them out quickly dub world.

Even though I have to admit, yes you have heard these voices before, they are the same VAs as in various other works... Wendee Lee, Crispin Freeman, Johnny Yong Bosch... But even though I can recognize the voices here, they don't sound like Ichigo or whatever... they actually PLAY their assigned characters... and very well! They ACT. I highly recommend it for anyone who's a fan of the series or looking to get into it.

Really what makes this dub so great is Crispin Freeman as Kyon, the best main character ever, with the best lines ever, and the best delivery in both the original Japanese and the English dub... ever. I'm a bit of a fanboy... but hopefully you can watch it yourself and get the same idea.

That was a rather large tangent for a DB podcast I guess. <_<

[desirecampbell]

Don't forget the amazing Lina Inverse from Slayers! That was pretty much the role I will always remember her for.

I was looking over her WP entry and just randomly pulling out names I recognised - then I saw a credit for Pokemon. "Who's 'Fushigidane'? Is that Misty? Oh. Bulbasaur. Now that's some vocal range!"

[Brakus]

It's awesome to see that the same voices are doing all these roles, and it's the same way there in Japan as it is here in the States.

But it happens in Japan because the actors are, um, actually good (okay, and sometimes it's just because they're popular). But over here it seems like these people are simply the only VAs available.

There could be voice actors that could be far superior to what FUNimation has chosen. But if they don't live where the work is, and they don't want to fly out to Dallas for every single pick-up line needed, then they're not going to be on that dub. This goes for other dubbing companies too. Even in Japan. If there's some seiyuu that's really, really talented, but he lives all the way out in Okinawa, when the studio is in Tokyo, it's not economically feasible to fly him in to do several episodes. I have discovered that although American dubbing is ADR and Japanese dubbing is mostly pre-lay, both of their voice actors have similar experiences.

Furthermore, even if all these English VAs were really good, they're still being overused. It's the same actors, the same voices, the same wooden acting, the same voice characterization as every anime they put out. It's like some high school class doing play after play after play - they all come out sounding terrible because all the characters run together.

The voice acting pool is indeed limited. You only have five locations in North America doing these dubs: L.A., New York, Vancouver, Houston, and Dallas. It's not like they can go to Phoenix, Atlanta, or Walla Walla, Washington, to find the cast for a show. That's why you see the same names come up time and again. It doesn't matter if a relative unknown voice actor is better than the official voice actor if they don't live or can't get to where the work is regularly.

Hiring the same actor multiple times is not a bad thing, in fact using good actors repeatedly is a good thing. But they should be used because they're good, not because they're the VAs on staff and Funimation doesn't want to pay for more actors.

Here's another thing that might be shocking to you: The voice actors for FUNimation (and ADV, for that matter) are independent contractors for those respective companies and are not staff for them in that capacity. How do you think they got Scott McNeil and Johnny Yong Bosch for roles in FMA?

Once again, the casting decisions are ultimately done by the Japanese company holding the license. All that FUNi and ADV do is just make suggestions to the Japanese as to who to cast. If the Japanese wanted Chris Sabat (for example) to play four different roles in the same series, then that's what's going to happen.

[Brakus]

As I said in the other original thread, I do apologize if I'm turning this into another "sub/dub" debate.

There are some shows I like in English, and others in Japanese (shock)! (Some shows, I like listening to them in both English AND Japanese! Double shock!) An "ideal dub" to me is one that doesn't necessarily voice-match the Japanese voices. It should have an accurate translation and yet be fun to listen to. If it meets those criteria, I win. I guess "ideal dub" is just relative depending on who you ask.

And I still think it looks like Vegeta killed his live-in lover Nappa after all those years. That's the vibe I get when I watch that episode. That's why Meri's #1 on her list wins twelve internets.

[Super Sonic]

At the same time, while Meri has a good point about each dub having its own specific flavor to it, I DO agree on the casting bit. As much as I love a lot of the current VAs, I get pretty annoyed when two shows, running at the SAME TIME will have the SAME VOICES in the roles of the SAME CHARACTERS. Saturday, 12:00 midnight rolls around and Johnny Yong Bosch and Stephanie Sheh are the leads, an hour passes, Eureka 7 is on, they're the leads again, except as younger kids. Especially in the case of shows both anime AND cartoons recorded in LA, where there're TONS of voice actors, and the same exact ones are used every. Single. Time.

It wasn't like that, but Bandai Japan thought Yuri Lowenthal's voice was too low for Renton.

On the topic concerning One Piece, I can now picture Mr. Strait doing something similar to his happy Maj. Hughes voice for Luffy.

[desirecampbell]

Once again, the casting decisions are ultimately done by the Japanese company holding the license. All that FUNi and ADV do is just make suggestions to the Japanese as to who to cast. If the Japanese wanted Chris Sabat (for example) to play four different roles in the same series, then that's what's going to happen.

Wait, wait, wait. Toei has control over which individual voice actors are hired?

Really? That sounds rather odd. Has anyone else ever heard of this?

[Super Sonic]

Like I said above with Eureka Seven. Yuri Lowenthal was originally contracted to voice Renton and there were trailers of him doing the voice. But Bandai Japan thought his voice was too low, so he was replaced with Johnny Yong Bosch.

[desirecampbell]

Like I said above with Eureka Seven. Yuri Lowenthal was originally contracted to voice Renton and there were trailers of him doing the voice. But Bandai Japan thought his voice was too low, so he was replaced with Johnny Yong Bosch.

Okay - but that's a single example, does this kind of thing happen a lot? Or is it extremely rare. You've made it out to sound like this was a common occurrence, which seems unlikely.

[Saiyan]

Well, I know for Fullmetal Alchemist, Vic Mignogna (Ed) stated that when he submitted his voice sample to Japan, he was unsure whether or not he would be cast, or something like "I hope they like it" sorta thing.

[mysteriousdbzgt]

Great podcast. I enjoyed listening to the Top 5 Vegeta Kills, since he is my favourite character. If there was a new Funi dub then i would watch it, but i think i would just stick to the japanese.

[Super Sonic]

Was also going to say most guys I know say they don't want to see the new Totoro dub because they love the old one they watched as kids so much. Myself I didn't see it until last year, but I liked it. Cheryl Chase was so cute as the younger sister. Did see the new one on tv and did notice the older sister's name wasn't pronounced the "gaijin" way though.

[Tsukento]

Usually the Japanese crew are involved only when it's a rather big project or are asked for help with the American crew, I believe.

Pretty sure had Toei known what 4Kids was gonna do to One Piece, they wouldn't have let it fly (they were pissed enough 4Kids failed to make it a popular show and that DVD sales were behind HIKARU NO GO).

[Kirbopher]

On the topic concerning One Piece, I can now picture Mr. Strait doing something similar to his happy Maj. Hughes voice for Luffy.

Sonny wasn't cast as Luffy, although I'm hoping he might've gotten Ussop.

[Azure]

I loved this podcast. Actually we just got fantastic 4 here and that's got Scoot McNeil as The Thing and Kirby Morrow as Reed Richards, those two also voices half the cast of Ys on the PS2. This makes me smile a lot =3