Loputousu wrote:Base Goku and Final Form Frieza seemed to be around equals when they exchanged punches when Frieza was brought back to Earth. Not the best piece of evidence, but it would have been impossible if Base Goku got nerfed at all.
They sort of caught each other off-guard with those punches though, and we've been exposed to instances in which weaker characters were able to harm much stronger ones under similar circumstances. Alternatively, they could be equals under the current scaling as well.
I'm not really certain how they're portraying Final Form Frieza at this point myself, but perhaps we'll see.
Personally, I feel like portraying the two in their base and god-level forms as completely equal is the most plausible narrative direction.
The issue then is where their base forms lie. If Freeza is maintained as extremely powerful in his base form, and if the above remains the primary direction, that in turn would ALSO mean that Goku is extremely powerful. If not, then we have a problem of the retcon kind.
Really, Freeza is the key to power-scaling. He's always used as a benchmark, and he often doesn't fall into the same kinds of "martial arts entertainment" trappings that usually confuses the power-scalers for the current anime. If we get clear confirmation of where he stands and how others relate to him, we'll have our answers. Whether or not we'll get those answers, well............ It's really a toss-up.
Base Cabba is on par with his strength and he knocked Nigirisshi out of the arena like he was nothing and he was supposed to be the strongest modified warrior in his Universe.
Every Tournament Goku has ever been in he's held back until the very end. He's already let his guard down twice in like 9 minutes.
- Android 17 and Ribrianne fight evenly
- Rozie has her fighting style used against her and Goku get the advantage on her.
- Opni use a unique afterimage technique to get advantage against Base Gohan
- Rubarut beats around Piccolo, but Piccolo no sells his assault and Piccolo casually knocks out Rubarut with his Hellzone Grenade attack
- Gohan powers up into his Ultimate form and absolutely clobbers Opni for an extend period of time and eliminates his easily with a Kamehameha.
- The NEP also shows that Dyspo is using his speed to blitz attack Hit and SSJG Goku and seems to be able to have advantage against the both of them.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Ribrianne fought on par with Android 17 so I'm guessing she's above Super Saiyan 3 level then.
Base Goku had some trouble against the one he fought but eventually turned the tables and got the upper hand once he got used to her style.
The Yadrat easily beat some fodder guy.
Piccolo had a little trouble against the guy he fought but still beat him fairly easily in the end. I'd guess that guy was also Base Saiyan level or something.
Obni seemed stronger than Base Gohan but was clearly weaker than Ultimate Gohan. I'd also wager a guess that Obni was probably Super Saiyan level. Not as strong as the Super Saiyan 2 Goku who gave Ultimate Gohan a lot more trouble. Seemingly he'd be the strongest from Universe 10.
The preview for the next episode shows Dyspo giving Super Saiyan God Goku a bit of trouble, you see him kick Goku away and he also gives Hit some trouble so Dyspo looks to be another God level character like Jiren and Toppo,
They don't even know what they're doing anymore.
Red guy was completely stomping Piccolo, so how on earth could the Namekian one-shot him like that.
Everything's messed. Way worse than the Future Trunks arc.
Bullza wrote:Ribrianne fought on par with Android 17 so I'm guessing she's above Super Saiyan 3 level then.
Base Goku had some trouble against the one he fought but eventually turned the tables and got the upper hand once he got used to her style.
The Yadrat easily beat some fodder guy.
Piccolo had a little trouble against the guy he fought but still beat him fairly easily in the end. I'd guess that guy was also Base Saiyan level or something.
Obni seemed stronger than Base Gohan but was clearly weaker than Ultimate Gohan. I'd also wager a guess that Obni was probably Super Saiyan level. Not as strong as the Super Saiyan 2 Goku who gave Ultimate Gohan a lot more trouble. Seemingly he'd be the strongest from Universe 10.
The preview for the next episode shows Dyspo giving Super Saiyan God Goku a bit of trouble, you see him kick Goku away and he also gives Hit some trouble so Dyspo looks to be another God level character like Jiren and Toppo,
Ultimate Gohan wasn't going all out against SSJ2 Goku, so Opni's strength depends on if Gohan was holding back or not. If Gohan was holding back, then Opni is SSJ Goku level. If he wasn't holding back, then Opni is SSJ3 Goku level.
Bullza wrote:Seemingly he'd be the strongest from Universe 10.
That's definitely the impression I got as well, particularly since Gowasu seemed to have a lot of confidence in him even though he was Universe 10's last man standing. He also seemed to be giving Ultimate Gohan a bit of trouble, albeit briefly. I know we didn't get to see a lot from Murichim but I don't personally think he was the strongest.
Bullza wrote:The preview for the next episode shows Dyspo giving Super Saiyan God Goku a bit of trouble, you see him kick Goku away and he also gives Hit some trouble so Dyspo looks to be another God level character like Jiren and Toppo,
This too. Aragney had an advantage against Dyspo only because he caught him off-guard with his tentacles; otherwise Dypso is comfortably among Universe 11's top 3 and almost certainly a God tier fighter.
Lord Beerus wrote:- Android 17 and Ribrianne fight evenly
- Rozie has her fighting style used against her and Goku get the advantage on her.
- Opni use a unique afterimage technique to get advantage against Base Gohan
- Rubarut beats around Piccolo, but Piccolo no sells his assault and Piccolo casually knocks out Rubarut with his Hellzone Grenade attack
- Gohan powers up into his Ultimate form and absolutely clobbers Opni for an extend period of time and eliminates his easily with a Kamehameha.
- The NEP also shows that Dyspo is using his speed to blitz attack Hit and SSJG Goku and seems to be able to have advantage against the both of them.
I'm glad that they made Ribrianne ~SSB level (unless 17 was holding back or some bs like that).
Rozie is disappointing. She is one of U2's top 3 fighters and she was losing to base Goku? Wtf is that?
I'm hoping that Ultimate Gohan wasn't holding back. I want U10 to have at least one SSJ3 level fighter, and that's where Opni would be if Gohan was going all out (but knowing Toei Gohan was probably holding back)
The Piccolo vs Rubarut fight was confusing. Rubarut was dominating Piccolo and then he got KO'ed by Hellzone Grenade. How could he get KO'ed by that attack if he was dominating Piccolo? I don't recall Piccolo being the type to hold back significantly and test his opponents like Goku does.
Hakaishin Liquir wrote:The Piccolo vs Rubarut fight was confusing. Rubarut was dominating Piccolo and then he got KO'ed by Hellzone Grenade. How could he get KO'ed by that attack if he was dominating Piccolo? I don't recall Piccolo being the type to hold back significantly and test his opponents like Goku does.
Yeah, that was super weird. Maybe the subtitles will clear things up, but it looked like Rubarut was kicking Piccolo's ass, but, no Piccolo just no sells his assault entirely. I can only imagine Piccolo did that to lure Rubarut into a false sense of security, while also creating a decent amount of distance between him and Rubarut, and that made the attack of Hellzone Grenade all the more unexpected, and thus making the elimination easier for him. Sounds really over-complicated, but the main cast loving making any kind of fighting situation more challenging than it has to be.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
We don't know for sure that Dyspo is "kicking' Goku's ass. We saw him land a kick in a preview. Goku didn't look like he took any battle damage unlike Hit. Let's wait until the episode airs before we start losing our shit over how strong this unknown Bunny Beerus look alike is. Not saying he's a weakling, but I don't think he's all that strong either.
MagmonKai wrote:We don't know for sure that Dyspo is "kicking' Goku's ass.
To be fair, I don't recall anyone in this thread making an argument as strong as that one. The preview did make it seem as if Goku blocked an attack -- possibly a speed-based one -- that Hit looked pretty helpless against (Caulifla and Champa at least seemed worried) and there was also a scene where Goku was powering up with Dyspo looking rather intimidated in response. So even with our very limited glimpses of Episode 104, we can tell that SSG Goku probably won't be completely outmatched, at least just going by what we saw.
We never can be too sure how it'll go until the episode airs though. I'm by no means attempting to jump the gun here, but there's nothing wrong with a little speculation.
I'm really hoping that Dyspo's ability isn't that he's just faster than light and that's why he can give people like Goku and Hit trouble.
Mainly because I know the sheer amount of shit it would cause amongst fans and the complaining that all this time they weren't light speed.
Additionally though if we are to believe that Ultimate Gohan and Android 17 are about on par with each other then I guess that would mean Ribrianne is stronger than Obni?
I'm glad Ribiranne at least proved she has some considerable power. She can be anywhere from SSJ3 level to slightly below Super Saiyan God. There's no real way of telling.
Ribrianne seemed like she might be SSJ2 tier at most. She wasn't even worth Vegeta's time and 17 seems to be playing around with her. I'm not impressed by her as of tonight's episode. I thought she'd be more of a formidable fighter.
Nah, 17 definitely looked a lot more serious fighting her and seems to be putting up a fight. It was a lot different than him fighting the girl from the previous ep where he was barely doing anything.
She's likely weaker than him, but as said I'd wager she could be around SSJ3 level.
