Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[ZombieVito]

So, I haven't seen it yet, or fallen into the pits of spoilers and hope to remain that way, knowing the bare minimum, but I do wonder....
Was the movie as bad as many users were saying it was going to be this past few months, even though they hadn't seen it? were they right, did it suck?

Was the CGI so bad?

Did this movie ruin the franchise as predicted?

This is my favorite DB film of all time.

[Koitsukai]

So, I haven't seen it yet, or fallen into the pits of spoilers and hope to remain that way, knowing the bare minimum, but I do wonder....
Was the movie as bad as many users were saying it was going to be this past few months, even though they hadn't seen it? were they right, did it suck?

Was the CGI so bad?

Did this movie ruin the franchise as predicted?

This is my favorite DB film of all time.

That good, huh?

Good to know the CGI wasn't that big of a deal after all.

[Majin Buu]

We’ve had one for over 20 years now. Z Movie 13.

No. It was more about U7 working together, which included Frieza. 17 was also awesome.

To clarify, by "proper kaiju fight" I mean two kaiju-sized giants fighting each other, not normal sized people taking on a kaiju-sized opponent.

[ZombieVito]

So, I haven't seen it yet, or fallen into the pits of spoilers and hope to remain that way, knowing the bare minimum, but I do wonder....
Was the movie as bad as many users were saying it was going to be this past few months, even though they hadn't seen it? were they right, did it suck?

Was the CGI so bad?

Did this movie ruin the franchise as predicted?

This is my favorite DB film of all time.

That good, huh?

Good to know the CGI wasn't that big of a deal after all.

CGI is fine. Looks great on some shots. Bad in others.

Hopefully Toei adapts the movie in 2D if/when Super returns. Would be good to have the movie in 2 styles.

[capsulecorp]

I love that he got a power up, but this is what I'm here for. It seems those of you who saw it already like it for the most part. Maybe it won't do so well at the box office, but at least it'll be rated better

Yes! This is what I mean when I say this seems like a film "for the fans". I apologize if this seems like "gatekeeping" but, if you're obsessed with financial statements or ever-escalating threats, it looks like this movie just isn't for you, and I am HERE FOR THAT.

[Cipher]

So, I haven't seen it yet, or fallen into the pits of spoilers and hope to remain that way, knowing the bare minimum, but I do wonder....
Was the movie as bad as many users were saying it was going to be this past few months, even though they hadn't seen it? were they right, did it suck?

Was the CGI so bad?

Did this movie ruin the franchise as predicted?

This is my favorite DB film of all time.

That good, huh?

Good to know the CGI wasn't that big of a deal after all.

I don’t know which one I’d give it to between this and BoG (though this certainly looks a lot better), but I think this had my favorite animated DB action if all time. It isn’t as flashy as Broly, but it’s pretty flashy in its own right, and as a result of the CGI, the hits and take-offs, etc., feel really fast, weighty and huge, in a way it’s hard for hand drawn animation to consistently portray. You really feel the blows here. A lot it comes down to direction, probably, rather than medium, but they really nailed the sense of impact here, and that’s worth a lot.

Blew my expectations away. I thought it would look fine; it looks great.

I think on both an action and comedy front, this is also the best-directed DB film, and that I really don’t have to think too hard about. Everything clicks.

[Soba Mask]

Gohan Blanco is dead!

It's Gohan Plata!!! Novel confirms it. Hair is silver and not white;

[mute_proxy]

Gohan Blanco is dead!

It's Gohan Plata!!! Novel confirms it. Hair is silver and not white;

Any more interesting tid bits from the novel? Does it say anything else about the form?
I'm guessing it's a "limit breaking" thing like Goku's silver hair just not quite.

[jjbgood]

Kinda have the feeling its based on the same form Goku uses for UI.
The manga established that goku needed that transformation to master the UI (as a technique) but he can also use UI in different forms and even in base, if he trains it. So what we call "Mastered Ultra Instinct" is basically a transformation he performs for using the technique, without proper understanding and training. Maybe the new "Final Gohan" is the same transformation, but without the Ultra Instinct? Instead he combines it with his "halfbreed potential unleashed/ultimate" form and thats the difference.
I know, a little bit far stretched, but it makes sense...

Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku = Silver Hair Transformation combined with Ultra Instinct
FInal Gohan = Silver Hair Transformation combined with ultimate.

I could live with that explanation. You could state that the Silver Hair transformation is the highest transformation mortals are capeable of (doesnt need to be a saiyan thing) and you can combine it with whatever way of fighting you chose.

[Miracles]

Spoilers:

Spoiler:

On continuity:

• As expected, it’s a “squint and it fits” affair for both versions of serialized Super. It was written prior to the end of the Moro arc or ideation for Granolah, as a reminder.
• The Gohan treatment works fine even coming off the manga, as there’s nothing to say Gohan had never regained Ultimate prior—just that he’d gotten busy with his research again now. He also regains it rather easily.
• The only sticking point for the strictest form of adherence to the manga is Piccolo being implied to have never used his gigantification technique since the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. Gohan states he’s familiar with the technique while fighting Seven-Three, and both he and Piccolo see it then, via the copy ability. Still, you can make that all work out if you assume it was something Piccolo hadn’t pulled out since he first trained Gohan back in the Saiyan arc.
• Pan is unable to fly, while the Super TV series has her zipping around quite a bit as an infant (never an element in the manga). You could write this off as something she was able to do only instinctively, but hasn’t learned properly/consciously, I suppose.
• Jiren is used as a goalpost/point of comparison by the characters, but nothing precludes the encounters with Moro and Granolah having happened in the interim. (Depending on how the Granolah arc ends, he may be the only one still alive/powerful enough to warrant mention in that capacity too.) The explanation/nature of Jiren’s fighting resembles, albeit perhaps only coincidentally, his stated philosophy in the manga, which never comes up in the anime.
• Nothing on Ultra Instinct or Ultra Ego for Goku and Vegeta, but their scenes are scripted in such a way that nothing clear about their stronger forms is stated or shown at all to begin with.

So would you say that Super is set after the events of Moro/Survivor arc since Trunks and Goten have grown or before since this movie is stated to be a "sequel" to DBS Broly movie?

[Cipher]

Spoilers:

Spoiler:

On continuity:

• As expected, it’s a “squint and it fits” affair for both versions of serialized Super. It was written prior to the end of the Moro arc or ideation for Granolah, as a reminder.
• The Gohan treatment works fine even coming off the manga, as there’s nothing to say Gohan had never regained Ultimate prior—just that he’d gotten busy with his research again now. He also regains it rather easily.
• The only sticking point for the strictest form of adherence to the manga is Piccolo being implied to have never used his gigantification technique since the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. Gohan states he’s familiar with the technique while fighting Seven-Three, and both he and Piccolo see it then, via the copy ability. Still, you can make that all work out if you assume it was something Piccolo hadn’t pulled out since he first trained Gohan back in the Saiyan arc.
• Pan is unable to fly, while the Super TV series has her zipping around quite a bit as an infant (never an element in the manga). You could write this off as something she was able to do only instinctively, but hasn’t learned properly/consciously, I suppose.
• Jiren is used as a goalpost/point of comparison by the characters, but nothing precludes the encounters with Moro and Granolah having happened in the interim. (Depending on how the Granolah arc ends, he may be the only one still alive/powerful enough to warrant mention in that capacity too.) The explanation/nature of Jiren’s fighting resembles, albeit perhaps only coincidentally, his stated philosophy in the manga, which never comes up in the anime.
• Nothing on Ultra Instinct or Ultra Ego for Goku and Vegeta, but their scenes are scripted in such a way that nothing clear about their stronger forms is stated or shown at all to begin with.

So would you say that Super is set after the events of Moro/Survivor arc since Trunks and Goten have grown or before since this movie is stated to be a "sequel" to DBS Broly movie?

It's set after, which we've known the whole time. It doesn't have any direct connection/references to those arcs, however. (I guess we'll see what that means for continuity in the long haul, but right now you can still fit everything together if you want.)

[TheRed259]

For some reason, they removed the fight scene between Goku and Broly that we saw in the trailer.

[jjbgood]

For some reason, they removed the fight scene between Goku and Broly that we saw in the trailer.

Guess it was just an extended scene of that "broly is out of control" scene. When he powers up but goku stops him. Dont have to be a full fight, maybe just one or two punches, until the same outcome.

[lancerman]

I just don't know why Cell Max had to be portrayed the way he was.

They should have made him the same human sized and gave him an intelligence. Of all the characters they've brought back and powered up like Frieza, Trunks and Android 17, Cell was so easy to do.

All they had to do was have it so that this new Cell Max had the DNA from the current strongest characters, Blue Goku, Blue Vegeta, Broly, Piccolo etc. It did seem like such a waste.

Nah. The characters you mentioned were the original versions of those characters ressurected. Cell Max was a robot/artificial lifeform that was destroyed and has no soul to exist. This was always portrayed in the film as them taking the concept of Cell and trying to perfect it into a more superior weapon. Cell Max was essentially a kaiju in this film that was meant to be a weapon, not a character. It worked well for what it was. We didn't need to see Cell again. Especially since Cell just had one mission and his personality was just piggybacking other characters personalities.

[lancerman]

I'm not sure if anyone can verify this - has any translators talked about this?

Spoiler:

On facebook I saw an image of after the battle with english subs - Gohan saying something like: "even with Vegeta - not even Dad would have won this battle."

Of course it's just fan subs, but Final Gohan can't be close to Ultra Instinct Goku.

Cell Max can't be that powerful, no way. Maybe Gohan is just cocky lol

He didn't say wouldn't have, he said even they might not have. Just means even they'd have trouble.

Its's also worth noting that

Spoiler:

they beat Cell Max because of the failsafe that was installed and not because they were actually stronger than him. Even in Gohan's ultimate form he needed an assist from Piccolo to use his giant form and stretchy arms to hold Cell in place for the finishing shot. So in theory, yeah it would have still been very difficult for Goku or Vegeta to win that fight. They obviously would have found a way, but it was definitly going to be a challenge

[Majin Buu]

Its's also worth noting that

Spoiler:

they beat Cell Max because of the failsafe that was installed and not because they were actually stronger than him. Even in Gohan's ultimate form he needed an assist from Piccolo to use his giant form and stretchy arms to hold Cell in place for the finishing shot. So in theory, yeah it would have still been very difficult for Goku or Vegeta to win that fight. They obviously would have found a way, but it was definitly going to be a challenge

I like the sound of this.

Spoiler:

It's not as simple and straightforward as "character becomes stronger and wins". Strength alone doesn't get them the victory and there are other factors at play; making for a more engaging battle.

.

[Xeno Goku Black]

Cell Max was essentially a kaiju in this film that was meant to be a weapon, not a character. It worked well for what it was.

I get what it's purpose was meant to be but I'm talking about it for fans.

Fans would have greatly preferred a different portrayal of Cell. It didn't have to be the same Cell from before. Didn't even need to speak. But it should have been done better.

A human sized Red Perfect Cell that didn't speak and was all intimidating like the Terminator would have gone down better.

[Majin Buu]

A human sized Red Perfect Cell that didn't speak and was all intimidating like the Terminator would have gone down better.

If they're going to reuse old villains, they should at least justify it by giving us a new take on them, which to their credit they have managed to do with Freeza and Broly (I'm still not thrilled about Freeza coming back again, but they at least gave him a new form and his role as a villainous ally in the ToP was well received). Making Cell a kaiju is a new take on him that the film takes advantage of to provide what sounds like an engaging battle; and his 2nd form plays into that kaiju execution better than his perfect form would have (his first form is the most monstrous so that might have worked better as a kaiju, but 2nd form is Toriyama's favorite so I don't mind that one being used instead).

[Xeno Goku Black]

I'm all for a new take just so long as it's a good take.

I think the idea behind Cell Max would have been one thing if it wasn't related to Cell at all but it is.

Taking a popular villain, redoing him with his worst appearance and making it a Kaiju is not something I think fans would have wanted from a Cell.

Again what they could have done is have a human sized Red Perfect Cell that was void of personality and didn't speak because it wasn't complete due to being released early.

Gohan could have defeated it but not killed it and then Bulma and Dr Gero could have got ahold of and completed it themselves, incorporating the heroic traits of the sacrificed Gamma 2 and thus making Cell a protagonist from that point on.

[wertham]

About that character you're talking about (I'm going to preserve it in spoilers box, even if most of you are talking about it freely):

Spoiler:

I'm ok with Cell Max and I prefer him over the return of Original Cell, not only because that would be (again) cheap fan service, but because it's coherent with characters' motivations in Super Hero. Furthermore, I think that Toriyama is saying something through these characters: Magenta wants a rehash of the original Red Ribbon and considers Cell the "main project" while Dr. Hedo is not really interested in doing another version of Cell and he likes more his Gamma 1 and 2, considering the release of Cell Max unnecessary. Taking account of Toriyama's history of making fun of his editors and going against fan's wishes and expectations, I think Magenta represents Toei here, and Toriyama is channeling his wishes throught Hedo. Cell Max ends up being another character entirely, as the kaiju with no brains that serves the purpose of making Hedo, the Gammas and the Dragon Team work together to defeat the stronger menace (in Dragon Ball's tradition).