Have you ever tried to make sense out of the dub?

Chrono Trigger · Post by **Chrono Trigger** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:02 pm

This is mostly for people that didn't know the show was censored/cut up/stuff like that. Like I remember being a kid and imagining Vegeta fighting some random guys on "Rygal 7" who were doing attacks similar to the Kaio Ken...Or wondering how all those people could have possibly escaped from that city Nappa blew up...and what really got me was how these guys were fighting these brutal battles but there was never any blood. A lot of times the stuff didn't make any sense at all. Of course all my questions were answered when I came across the site "DBZ Uncensored" but yeah...You guys get what I mean right?

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:11 pm

Even before I knew that it was censored, I knew that there were pieces of dialog thrown in like, "The city was evacuated," or references to the Next Dimension so that it could be on US children's television. However, despite such things, older kids such as myself knew that it was pure crap and they were just putting it there for the sake of overprotective parents. When someone had a Halo over their head and was in some other plane of existence, we knew they were dead.

It wasn't until later that I knew that there was some magical "original version" with all the stuff that I knew was obviously supposed to be there.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:24 pm

-The whole Bardock brilliant scientist thing.
-The voice changes
-Tenshinhan and the magical regrowing limb
.........
The list goes on and on.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:26 pm

Er... not really. By the time I got into the show, I was somewhat older and had access to the internet. So I did a bunch of research, found out what the dealio was, and eventually started favoring the Japanese version as a result.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:30 am

They're almost entirely different programs, aren't they? It's a real shame.

It is fun to watch the dub sometimes and poke fun at the weird censorship and changed dialogue.

Like Vegeta trying to qualify his evil nature as he's dying on Namek, when in the original he's just telling Goku to avenge the Saiyans. Or the whole "General Tao"('s chicken!) thing. Or CAT LOVES FOOD, YE-YEAH YEAH YEAH!

But then eventually I get a headache and switch back over to the Japanese.

Post by **Herms** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:42 am

I remember how back in the olden days I watched the dub of the afterlife tournament/Boo stuff as it first aired, and seeing all these characters named King Kai, West Kai, Grand Kai, Supreme Kai etc, I wondered just what a "Kai" was.

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:55 am

Herms wrote:I remember how back in the olden days I watched the dub of the afterlife tournament/Boo stuff as it first aired, and seeing all these characters named King Kai, West Kai, Grand Kai, Supreme Kai etc, I wondered just what a "Kai" was.

I think you forgot Zen Kai...

B · Post by B » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:34 am

penguintruth wrote:Or the whole "General Tao"('s chicken!) thing.

I never understood the big hubbaballo over this. Did the dub highlight this often or something? I mean, I know it's wrong, but it seems so minor that I don't get why it's brought up as often as I see it brought up.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:36 am

B wrote:
penguintruth wrote:Or the whole "General Tao"('s chicken!) thing.
I never understood the big hubbaballo over this. Did the dub highlight this often or something? I mean, I know it's wrong, but it seems so minor that I don't get why it's brought up as often as I see it brought up.

It's about respect. Goku's battle(s) with Tao Pai Pai were a pretty big part of DB history.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:57 am

penguintruth wrote:
B wrote:
penguintruth wrote:Or the whole "General Tao"('s chicken!) thing.
I never understood the big hubbaballo over this. Did the dub highlight this often or something? I mean, I know it's wrong, but it seems so minor that I don't get why it's brought up as often as I see it brought up.
It's about respect. Goku's battle(s) with Tao Pai Pai were a pretty big part of DB history.

I don't see how calling him a general is somehow marring his image in the series.

Post by **Herms** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:08 am

B wrote:I never understood the big hubbaballo over this. Did the dub highlight this often or something? I mean, I know it's wrong, but it seems so minor that I don't get why it's brought up as often as I see it brought up.

In the android arc there's this extensive flashback detailing the history of the RR Army. Originally the flashback was almost entirely silent, but in the Funi dub it was filled in with Kame-sennin's exposition, which contained quite a number of errors. Among the things it said were that Dr. Brief had sent Goku out to collect dragonballs as part of his training, that Gero was featured prominently in the actual RR arc, that Goku was primarily trying to confront Gero when he stormed RR headquarters (Black being described as the last man who stood between Goku and Gero), and of course, that Tao Pai Pai was an RR general. So I think people mention it because of that infamous dub scene, and because he's still referred to as "General Tao" when he appears in the pre-Cell Games filler.

But really, I don't see how it's a minor thing at all. Tao Pai Pai might not be the most important character in the whole series, but to the extent that he matters at all, who he actually is matters. And he happens to be an assassin hired by the RR to kill Goku, not an actual member of the RR. That's why Red has to pay him an absurd amount of money to kill Goku, that's why Red makes him prove his ability (killing Blue in the process), and that's why he gets to take his sweet time going back to collect the missing dragonball. Tao Pai Pai's actions and role in the RR arc only make sense in light of him being an outside force who the RR only summon very reluctantly, and who they themselves are terrified of. He's not just someone Red can boss around as he sees fit, and that's important to the story.

It also explains why Tao Pai Pai is still around long after the RR's destruction. Gero's whole deal during the android arc is that he's trying to get revenge on Goku for wiping out the RR. In the anime, Tai Pai Pai is also shown to be still around at this time, but if he were ex-RR personel, why wouldn't he have been working with Gero? It's because he was never a member of the RR: they were just one of his many clients, and he couldn't care less about them getting wiped out by Goku, other than maybe him not getting paid as a result.

Not to mention tha Tao Pai Pai's connection to Tsuru-sennin is also quite important, and him being an RR general messes that up. Tsuru-sennin runs a martial arts school that specializes in training people to be assassins. Tao Pai Pai is part of this school, and he works as an assassin. Tenshinhan's whole goal when he's first introduced is to be an assassin just like Tai Pai Pai; he didn't want to be a general. Tao Pai Pai being an RR general and not an assassin goes against all this.

Innagadadavida · Post by **Innagadadavida** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:15 am

Hah! I first watched the series dubbed from the beginning of Dragon Ball all the way through. When I got to this part I was shocked and upset. I really had no idea where all this nonsense was coming from. I still don't fully understand why FUNimation felt the need to make up and change parts of the back-story. They really shot themselves in the foot with that one, although that wasn't the first or last time they shot themselves in the foot.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:22 am

Innagadadavida wrote:I still don't fully understand why FUNimation felt the need to make up and change parts of the back-story.

"Your father was a great scientist," has already been mentioned in this thread, but yeah. They made up some pretty damn random stuff.

RogueA007 · Post by **RogueA007** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:29 am

I probably should have been alarmed by the dub edits, but let's face it, there will always be a warm fuzzy place in my heart for Ocean/Saban episodes even if they're awful edit abominations from HFIL. I was young when I first saw DBZ so I just thought that DBZ was just merely like the rest of the American action/adventure shows I saw on TV weekdays and on weekends.

But then one day, I went to the video store and rented a VHS of DBZ Movie 3. Looking forward to watching more zany cartoon action from Goku and friends. However, apparently, I had rented the the uncut Pioneer dub of Tree of Might, so these were the thoughts running through my brain by the end of the night:

What? Why were all my favorite characters suddenly SWEARING and telling each other to go to hell and die? Gohan was nakedddd! Why did Goku suddenly pick up the weird Californian surfer accent? What was that weird music I just heard, especially that REALLY catchy music in a foreign language about... Head-Cha-La's? I don't know what that was, but it was COOL!

After that confusing moment, my house got access to the internet,where I learned the truth. Then my cable system got the I-Channel, where I could watch DBZ/GT the original, uncut, (and unsubbed) Japanese way. I watched the dub on Toonami now and again but never took it very seriously, ever.

(And...to this day, my favorite DBZ DVD in my collection still is Pioneer's dub of Tree of Might.

)

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:50 am

Herms wrote:Dr. Brief had sent Goku out to collect dragonballs as part of his training.

Huh? I don't recall the dub stating that... At least, nothing about Dr. Brief...

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:56 am

RogueA007 wrote:Why did Goku suddenly pick up the weird Californian surfer accent?

Ah, Peter Kelamis. I miss him so.

(And...to this day, my favorite DBZ DVD in my collection still is Pioneer's dub of Tree of Might. )

I bought the boxset of the Pioneer releases of the first three movies just a few months ago. I nostalgia'd hard.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:56 am

This entire thing is about the Ocean dub. After FUNimation began dubbing the series with their in-house cast (Captain Ginyu Saga), all of this was eliminated. All the lines such as, "I see some parachutes" and "Just wait until I grow it back out" were thrown in because networks had certain standards such as there were to be no deaths in a show. Had they not censored it up like that, the show wouldn't make it on TV. I remember watching an episode of Batman: The Animated Series which had commentary and that's what they said. They said that it was tricky killing Robin's parents and other things like that because you weren't allowed to have actual deaths happen, you could only hint at it and not really mention it. So um yeah. I don't know whether it was because of Toonami or the change in times, but they were allowed to do it when they had a stable run on Cartoon Network.

After the Ocean dub passed, none of these problems existed again. From then on, the only issues were dialog and name changes. Although no names were truly THAT altered except the H word, which was not an issue on the DVDs.

Freeza.exe · Post by **Freeza.exe** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:31 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:This entire thing is about the Ocean dub. After FUNimation began dubbing the series with their in-house cast (Captain Ginyu Saga), all of this was eliminated. All the lines such as, "I see some parachutes" and "Just wait until I grow it back out" were thrown in because networks had certain standards such as there were to be no deaths in a show. Had they not censored it up like that, the show wouldn't make it on TV. I remember watching an episode of Batman: The Animated Series which had commentary and that's what they said. They said that it was tricky killing Robin's parents and other things like that because you weren't allowed to have actual deaths happen, you could only hint at it and not really mention it. So um yeah. I don't know whether it was because of Toonami or the change in times, but they were allowed to do it when they had a stable run on Cartoon Network.

After the Ocean dub passed, none of these problems existed again. From then on, the only issues were dialog and name changes. Although no names were truly THAT altered except the H word, which was not an issue on the DVDs.

I never have issues with things being censored for T.V broadcast. I can understand perfectly if they can't say that Pandora's legs are going to be reduced to bloody stubs after being lobbed off by buzzsaws or not being able to show a 16 year old girl flashing an old man. However that doesn't excuse the dialogue. There's no reason for things to be added or changed through rewritten dialogue for no reason.

Not being able to show Goku ramming himself through Piccolo? That's a-okay with me, I can understand that. Having Piccolo rant and rave about right,wrong and justice while fighting #20? Absolutely no reason for that dialogue change to occur.

That being said I did try to make sense of the dialogue for the dub. Like the error of Jheese saying Ginyu's power is getting higher at the end of one episode and then saying it's falling at the beginning of the next, here I would just assume Ginyu's power shot up to above 15,000 and raised steadily before rapidly plummeting. Or thinking Vegeta's just trying to toy with Goku's head when he states his fathers was brilliant scientist and created the technique that would lead to his demise.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:03 am

I don't know why they ever mentioned that Goku's dad was a scientist. One explanation I came up with was that they didn't get the rights for the rest of the series, so they didn't know who Bardock was to begin with and felt that the fight between Goku and Vegeta would be much more emotional if Goku's past was brought back.

After the Ocean dub Saban episodes, that issue is corrected.

I know people have issues that the dialog was not as close to the original as it could have been, and I don't know why it was. But I'm guessing that it was them trying to make their own show out of it the way they wanted. I know nothing about Pokemon and Digimon and all those animes, but I doubt that they were so close to the original Japanese versions. Maybe that was just the way that anime was handled back then, especially since Dragon Ball (Z) was one of the first popular animes to be brought to the United States and all around the world.

That isn't an excuse for it at all, I'm just saying that it's what happened and you don't really have to like it. But I'm not going to hate it because of that especially when there's that button on the remote. Aside from all of the weird censoring of the Ocean dubbed episodes, the dialog doesn't really create more of a story or any contradictions, at least none that I can really think of.

Shoryuken · Post by **Shoryuken** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:18 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:I don't know why they ever mentioned that Goku's dad was a scientist. One explanation I came up with was that they didn't get the rights for the rest of the series, so they didn't know who Bardock was to begin with and felt that the fight between Goku and Vegeta would be much more emotional if Goku's past was brought back.

Or they decided to make a nod towards his Superman-esque origins.

Kanzenshuu

Have you ever tried to make sense out of the dub?

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