Pictures color-corrected to fit various official versions

[Jodaku]

Really interesting thread, great job Cold Skin.

Like others, I really like the updated colours for Kid Goku's, Teen Gohan's training and Future Trunks' outfits.

[Cold Skin]

CORRECTED: Vegetto

Vegito's wasteband should be orange too. If I remember in the manga, Toriyama left it white like the undershirt, so I assume they're the same color.

Very nice!
I didn't bother to check the black and white pages, but you're absolutely right, Vegetto's belt is apparently the same color as the undershirt, similarly to Goku's outfit!!
It's been updated thanks to you!

Really interesting thread, great job Cold Skin.

Like others, I really like the updated colours for Kid Goku's, Teen Gohan's training and Future Trunks' outfits.

Thanks, I do what I can, but I also owe this quality to members here, giving me ideas or noticing mistakes!

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Vegito's wasteband should be orange too. If I remember in the manga, Toriyama left it white like the undershirt, so I assume they're the same color.

Very nice!
I didn't bother to check the black and white pages, but you're absolutely right, Vegetto's belt is apparently the same color as the undershirt, similarly to Goku's outfit!!
It's been updated thanks to you!

Vegetto's gloves and boots are also un-colored in the manga, but how do you know they didn't adopt colors form Goku's boot like the rest of the altered pallet instead of staying the same as Vegeta's?

Seriously, I don't think it really means anything and it seems like you guys jump to make color connections that don't necessarily have that implication when the character is only seen in black and white. Vegetto's belt could very well still be the same shade of blue as on Goku's dogi. It's true that dark colors usually get colored in while light ones don't, but there are exceptions for "manga reasons", aka the better of the design when seen in black and white.

[desirecampbell]

What's the digital manga that the Gyumao's colors came from?

A couple years ago, Viz digitally released the first arc for free. They fully colored it themselves (as well as some other series):

http://imageshack.us/a/img51/4145/32258829.png

Quick side question: Viz left the sound effects as katakana? I thought they redrew them in English?

[Cold Skin]

Vegetto's gloves and boots are also un-colored in the manga, but how do you know they didn't adopt colors form Goku's boot like the rest of the altered pallet instead of staying the same as Vegeta's?

Seriously, I don't think it really means anything and it seems like you guys jump to make color connections that don't necessarily have that implication when the character is only seen in black and white. Vegetto's belt could very well still be the same shade of blue as on Goku's dogi. It's true that dark colors usually get colored in while light ones don't, but there are exceptions for "manga reasons", aka the better of the design when seen in black and white.

Which is why it's in the "Guess" category, because there are a few elements that are left unsure, and as explained on the description, the pictures are shown assuming Toriyama gave the instructions to Toei for the basic ideas behing Vegetto's colors, which seems to fit the black and white pages (Goku's orange is shown as white, Vegeta's blue is shown as dark).

However, it would be a shame not to put these corrected pictures simply because there is a chance one or two elements are off.
If we go that way, we can also say that it has never been stated Vegetto has golden hair, maybe he has them green or purple due to a side effect in the Potalas fusion, maybe his outfit is also dark red with pink undershirt for no reason... BUT for the sake of many pictures, we have to work on a kind of logic and on assumptions, albeit mentionning that this is only a "Guess", meaning this is logically how it SHOULD look but it is not actually fully PROVEN as being Toriyama's vision.

If you want that warning to be clearer, I can put the "Guess" part of the category in capital letters and red so that people's attention are drawn to it and they remember that part of it comes from logic inferences and not any sort of proof. (it's an idea I already thought about so that people that only want "proven" colors can easily eliminate those that are only guesses).

[hleV]

I think DBO should be the perfect material for color references, as it's newer than Kanzenban and is completely based on the manga.

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/ ... 5fvgo6.jpg
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/ ... 5fvgta.jpg
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/ ... 5fvh7u.jpg

[Cold Skin]

I think DBO should be the perfect material for color references, as it's newer than Kanzenban and is completely based on the manga.

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/ ... 5fvgo6.jpg
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/ ... 5fvgta.jpg
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/ ... 5fvh7u.jpg

DBO seems to focus on Toriyama's obsolete material or anime stuff sometimes, such as young Goku wearing blue, Kinto-Un being yellow, Bulma's hair being blue, Zabon having turquoise skin...
It doesn't really respect Toriyama's latest updates revealed through the Kanzenban, much like every video game thus far.

The team must have checked for various sources including the anime or manga early chapters, which don't count as "latest Toriyama updates", while Toriyama himself participated only for the new characters' designs as far as I know, not redrawing/recoloring/updating the characters we know like he did on the Kanzenban.

However, if it doesn't contradict the Kanzenban or original manga, such as the image of King Chapa, I can possibly add a "Dragon Ball Online" category, just like the "Digital manga" category: it is still an official update, even though it comes only second to material directly proved as Toriyama's own work and choices, and we cannot be sure about Toriyama's involvement (we don't know if he didn't prepared some indications on King Chapa's clothes back then that the anime would have chosen to change and that the game team would have consulted for example, much like Gyumao in the digital manga...).

[DBZGTKOSDH]

In DBO, Toriyama is heavily involved into it, and he is the designer of everything on it, and supervisor of the game.

[Cold Skin]

In DBO, Toriyama is heavily involved into it, and he is the designer of everything on it, and supervisor of the game.

So he went against his own choices for his whole career? Suddenly having Bulma have blue hair, young Goku wearing blue again, having Baba wearing purple hair?
That seems fishy to me, why would he suddenly give in to the anime vision of things when he kept his own choices even when asked to create new covers for the Kanzenban.

However, if you guys agree on this, I guess we'll have to take out almost all Kanzenban updates and a big chunk of the original manga pictures too...

This is very weird, the man actually goes against his own choices he has always defended to just have new choices that magically fit the anime most of the time, or his earlier work that he himself corrected quickly... If he's so easily manipulated by what the anime does, I'm a little scared that his involvement with the new movie will not be perceived.

I'd like people around to comment on whether or not DBO is to be considered Toriyama's definitive vision or if the Kanzenban and original manga are the true source of his vision...
- If the Kanzenban and Original Manga win, I'll have DBO staying at the level of assumption (orange color) with the Digital manga, just like it is set right now on the first page.
- If DBO wins, it will be considered the latest update fitting Toriyama's artistic style and all Kanzenban and manga pictures contradicting DBO will naturally be erased to keep this thread in line with its objective.
It will be your choice, guys. Votes are summurized right here on this post (I just put your names so that I don't get confused and avoid counting you twice if you post again). The name of the vote categories are not meant to be provocative, but to make sure you assume what you think AND take in account the argument of the opposite side.

Pro "Dragon Ball Online shows Toriyama's latest artistic choices, even when it cancels all of his previous artistic choices":
DBZGTKOSDH
hleV

Pro "The Kanzenban and the original manga show Toriyama's latest artistic choices, even when it has been published way before Dragon Ball Online and is now old material:
Cold Skin
rereboy

[hleV]

When you think about it, the latest coloring of Goku's first clothes we see kinda contradicts the non-colored pages. In latest colors, it's bright shirt and dark pants, yet in non-colored pages both his shirt and pants are dark. What does this mean? That Toriyama drew Goku's clothes in the very first chapters having in mind them as blue, but then many years later changed his mind, now contradicting even the non-colored pages of his manga? Or that these new colors are simply random ones he chosen for his liking, but are not necessarily the right colors?

I know there's a thing with Bulma's hair color, but she did have it green in the manga as well somewhere. So I don't think anything's been taken from the anime.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

You could also make various versions of colors that differ in the manga, Kanzenban & DBO. For example, the Super Saiyan aura in the manga is white, in the Kanzenban covers it's blue, and in DBO it's golden. So, you could put a manga version, a Kanzenban version, and a DBO version of it. You could even make versions that are both from the manga, but different, for example, in the manga, Karin has appeared as both blue & brown. That way, everyone will be happy. What do you think?

[Cold Skin]

When you think about it, the latest coloring of Goku's first clothes we see kinda contradicts the non-colored pages. In latest colors, it's bright shirt and dark pants, yet in non-colored pages both his shirt and pants are dark. What does this mean? That Toriyama drew Goku's clothes in the very first chapters having in mind them as blue, but then many years later changed his mind, now contradicting even the non-colored pages of his manga? Or that these new colors are simply random ones he chosen for his liking, but are not necessarily the right colors?

I know there's a thing with Bulma's hair color, but she did have it green in the manga as well somewhere. So I don't think anything's been taken from the anime.

I disagree.

1) CREATIVITY GOES FORWARD, NOT BACKWARDS

I don't believe for a second that Toriyama went doing his own stuff for 10-15 years to suddenly fall in line with what the anime producers chose.
He has spent his time re-imagining his world and characters over and over again, first considering young Goku should have a "two-parts" outfit in his latest illustrations of the manga, then confirming it on the Kanzenban, etc... It all falls into an on-going artistic logic that would suddenly break and go back to what he chose in his very first chapters back in 1986. The man has constantly evolved in his designs even in the manga itself and after one hundred illustration where he clearly chose Kinto-Un is purple, Bulma's hair is purple, the Super Saiyan aura is made of flames and not gaz like in the anime, etc... He would go back to the choices he ignored for more than a decade, cancelling any kind of evolution since then?

2) ANIME IS MORE FAMOUS

It makes sense that almost every video game has always used the anime version as the source, because that's the colours most known to the population. People are used to see young Goku wearing blue, Bulma having blue hair, Super Saiyan aura being golden, etc... Since the games appeal to fans of the anime more than fans of the manga, for popularity's sake, it makes sense that developpers will be more inclined to use the anime renditions. Small details like Piccolo's "skin" are okay to be manga-like, but not emblematic stuff like Bulma and Kinto-Un.

3) TORIYAMA WOULD SAY "OH, OKAY" TO ANYTHING

If the staff said it's better for the audience to have the anime colors for most well-known elements, Toriyama would have said "oh, okay". That's just who he is, do you remember those sheets for the Bardack movie where he said "I always envisionned Saiyan's hair as being black, but if you think variation is better, do as you please" or "I changed the names to what I see fit, but if you want to change them, then by all means". Even for Dragon Ball Evolution which is incredibly far from his original work, all he said was "oh, okay, well I guess it can be a valid alternative universe for Dragon Ball". The man doesn't care about what you do to his franchise and what things you will change compared to what he envisionned, he won't say "what are you doing to my vision of things?!", he will just say "if you think it's better in the end, do it all as you like".
I'm pretty sure despite being the artistic director or supervisor for this game, the team must have said "it's better to keep such and such elements like the anime or the audience won't feel familiar with it and possibly find it scandalous. If it's okay with you, of course!", and he just said "okay, I understand".

You could also make various versions of colors that differ in the manga, Kanzenban & DBO. For example, the Super Saiyan aura in the manga is white, in the Kanzenban covers it's blue, and in DBO it's golden. So, you could put a manga version, a Kanzenban version, and a DBO version of it. You could even make versions that are both from the manga, but different, for example, in the manga, Karin has appeared as both blue & brown. That way, everyone will be happy. What do you think?

Yeah, that's a nice idea, it would make everybody able to check all the existing versions and choosing what they consider the latest update.
But then, I don't even know how to present that in a proper way for now... I'll have to think of some major new organisation to keep it all clear.
I guess it would make the title of this thread wrong in the end, since it would be "various updates", not necessarily the "latest one".
But I'll try to come up with something, I just have to decide whether I organize it like it is right now (by character's names including all versions at once) or by material from which it is from (DBO section, Kanzenban section, original manga section...), etc...

I've always wanted to have the Super Saiyan aura like in the manga. It's not supposed to be golden propelled gaz like in the anime, but pure white/blue flames on the body.
However, I can't properly replace the graphics of the aura with actual flames, and even changing the colors of the aura tends to be impossible for me, because it has many parts that are partly transparent, blending with the colors of what appears behind the aura, so when you change the aura, you also give unnatural colors to the clothes or background... That seems out of my league, although I did manage to change the aura to white for one picture, even if it's still not flames...

[hleV]

Sorry, but I don't get what are you talking about. What does the anime have to do with anything I wrote (besides noting that I don't think anything's been taken from it)?

[rereboy]

I would ignore DBO. Yes, Toriyama was very involved in it but its incredibly difficult to be actually sure that a certain idea came solely from Toriyama and his will on a project like that.

So, I would ignore it or create different versions like it was suggested.

[Cold Skin]

Sorry, but I don't get what are you talking about. What does the anime have to do with anything I wrote (besides noting that I don't think anything's been taken from it)?

I'm talking about DBO having design being influenced by the anime and not Toriyama's manga vision, or so it seems to me. Goku wearing his anime outfit, Bulma having her anime appearance, etc... No way Toriyama would want that, and he's so easily influenced that he would agree without a second thought to the game staff saying "it would be better for a game to use the anime everybody knows for DBO, and then for minor elements like Piccolo or Freezer's skins, we can do it your way cause it won't disturb fans".

To me, it seems Toriyama's supervising was "polluted" by the anime versions in Dragon Ball Online, and DBO is not to be taken as his own latest "certified" vision, especially with the obvious suspicious elements we can see that contradict (or completely obliterate) all of his artistic feats over the years.

I would ignore DBO. Yes, Toriyama was very involved in it but its incredibly difficult to be actually sure that a certain idea came solely from Toriyama and his will on a project like that.

So, I would ignore it or create different versions like it was suggested.

Yeah, I feel unconfortable with the mere notion of him being the design superviser. With artworks coming from him, we're 100% sure it was how he wanted them to look like. But with DBO or anything anime-related excluding his preparation sheets (which obviously come from him and try to tell his vision to the anime staff), we don't know what he's been told, what he's been convinced of by other people, what directly came from him.
It's as if they told us for Movie 9 "with the villains designs supervised by Toriyama himself!!", and yeah, he created Bojack and his crew, and it can be marketted as such, yet in the end the colors are not what he envisionned and it is not his vision that we see in the final result... We can't know what exactly they end up marketting as "heavily involved in the design" or "design superviser".
It's an unsure source of influence, much like the Digital Manga, and I think as such it should remain a secondary source of update like the Digital Manga, because his influence is actually unsure about this or that in the end.

An alternative option would be to have Dragon Ball Online exclusives on their own separate category, with one category by type of media. We would have one category strictly "manga-related" with the Kanzenban, color pages, artworks and digital manga, and another category "game-related" with not only colors from Dragon Ball Online, but also remarkable alternate outfits seen in all games, regardless of Toriyama's influence being certified or not.
Once all versions are available, sorted by media categories, everyone is free to check out existing versions and choose what they consider to be the last update.
Despite the fact that we disagree, both opinions are valid and there is no real way to objectively settle this, so we might as well make everybody happy by having everyone's choice showcased and simply classified not according to what is the latest known update overall, but simply by media category, which should be a nice way to let the first post quite clean when it comes to presentation.

[hleV]

Sorry, but I don't get what are you talking about. What does the anime have to do with anything I wrote (besides noting that I don't think anything's been taken from it)?

I'm talking about DBO having design being influenced by the anime and not Toriyama's manga vision, or so it seems to me. Goku wearing his anime outfit, Bulma having her anime appearance, etc... No way Toriyama would want that

Both Goku and Bulma looked like that in the manga.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Just wanted to say, DBO is not connected with the anime. The story is a sequel to the manga, and the developers don't even have the rights of the anime.

[Cipher]

Just saw this thread. Pretty fantastic.

Honestly, I've always wanted to see an anime remake use all these more garish colors and character designs.

[Cold Skin]

Sorry, but I don't get what are you talking about. What does the anime have to do with anything I wrote (besides noting that I don't think anything's been taken from it)?

I'm talking about DBO having design being influenced by the anime and not Toriyama's manga vision, or so it seems to me. Goku wearing his anime outfit, Bulma having her anime appearance, etc... No way Toriyama would want that

Both Goku and Bulma looked like that in the manga.

That picture just goes my way, even with that manga look, Bulma never even wore pink in that outfit for Toriyama, but guess what, the anime had her that pink way, and oh snap, that's how she appears in DBO, anime-style-that-has-never-been-how-Toriyama-wanted-her!

Toriyama got her with blue hair when he began, then he updated her never to have her like that again in decades, never any blue hair for Bulma!
I can't believe he would just suddenly think "why not pink for Bulma's outfit and blue hair? Hey, coincidence, the anime did choose the same thing!"

Seriously, your picture proves that Toriyama did Bulma the way the anime did. He had her wearing orange here, even red on one artwork, but never pink in that outfit, that's just what the anime staff chose.
I guess he didn't made Baba's hair white for like 20 years just to have her suddenly with purple hair like the anime either - what a coincidence, Toriyama's style has always conflicted the anime's style in shocking ways, not caring a bit about what they did, but he suddently chooses an overall look that feels close to the anime and won't shock anime fans?! But guess what, people following only the anime wouldn't have recognized Baba or Bulma, it's a game, people need to recognize the anime, not the manga, ever! Just like a Dragon Ball Evolution needed to show a hint of BLUE in Bulma's hair, anime is more famous, hence the fact that all medias try to keep in line with the anime for the most recognizable elements.

As for Goku, I think if he had wanted his ultimate version of him to wear blue, he would have shown it on the ultimate cover of the ultimate version of his manga. This was his chance to make "definitive covers" for the "definitive version" defintively showing his art through his characters. He updated them, not just went for one-shot delirious stuff, as is shown by Kaio Shin and Kibito, or Gohan, or Vegeta: it all wasn't just a "let's try this new version once for a cover", but a "this is my new version, I stick to that for all subsequent covers cause that's how I definately see them in a defintive way".

[hleV]

The truth is, even in full-color pages, Toriyama has been inconsistent with colors. The perfect example would be Goku's initial clothes portrayed as orange, yet in all the non-color pages the clothes remained dark, meaning that it wasn't orange after all. The conclusion? The colors Toriyama chooses for his characters are not necessarily the right ones. He probably just takes whatever colors he wants at the time. Surely you can speculate that for Kanzenban, Toriyama's "gotten serious" and decided to recolor his characters the way he really wanted, but that would only be speculation at best. Nothing more.

Now again, I really doubt anything in DBO is based on the anime. They went with Piccolo's belt being Red, other Freeza's skin color than in the anime, other things exclusive to the manga, and yet you say that they went with Bulma's outfit being pink to reflect the anime? Really, don't you think it's too minor of a thing to be worth referencing from the anime? Maybe her having pink is Toriyama's idea, which went both to the anime and DBO.

And I think Uranai Baba's hair is purple in the only possible full-color page where she's apparent, but she's drawn very small so it's unclear.