Buu Saga Kai

Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby Cold Skin » Fri May 30, 2014 5:58 am

^ It was probably QTEC that took that initiative. Now that it's Toei themselves who remaster the footage, it might be different.
As of now, there hasn't been any redrawn shots if I'm not mistaken. So it seems Toei is not willing to redraw anything.

I guess if they can't cut the shot altogether, they'll just leave it here, not bothering to correct any coloring mistake.

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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby MR.Mark » Fri May 30, 2014 6:40 am

Cold Skin wrote:
MR.Mark wrote:I wait in suspense to see if fight filler bullshit like Goku hanging off a cliff, and dancing cheek to cheek with Vegeta will be left intact.

What is that all about?!
There is actually a filler that spends time showing Goku hanging off a cliff, like literally? (when he could let go and fly back up?)
And... I guess "dancing cheek to cheek" with Vegeta is something that happens during their battle and they end up being cheek to cheek somehow? (seems like a surprising position)


Yep, during his battle with Vegeta, Goku is just hanging off a cliff. Same thing happened during the Freeza arc, Kai wisely cut it out, hopefully they'll do the same here. The cheeks to cheek scene is just dumb, it's Goku and Vegeta filler inside Buu.

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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby thekingfallsdown » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:06 am

When do you think the Funimation dub of KAI's Buu saga will happen? Do you think it'll be 4:3 possibly? I realize the Toei original production is still going on though.
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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby sintzu » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:47 am

thekingfallsdown wrote:When do you think the Funimation dub of KAI's Buu saga will happen? Do you think it'll be 4:3 possibly? I realize the Toei original production is still going on though.


December or January

If toie made it in 4:3 like the first 3 arcs then yes

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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby Gaffer Tape » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:21 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:What do you guys think the chances are Toei will fix the scenes where Super Buu's eyes were white instead of red? Because this happened a few times If I remember right.

So, you think Toei will fix these, or just cut the scenes out entirely? I know they went back and fixed that error where SSJ Goku's eyebrows were still black in Kai.


They didn't really present that as a mistake, though. It's been a while since I watched it, but I remember his eyes being consistently white until he confronts Gotenks in the ROSAT. And then it goes out of its way to show his eyes changing color to red, and they stay that way from then on.
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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby SingleFringe&Sparks » Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:31 pm

MR.Mark wrote:
Cold Skin wrote:
MR.Mark wrote:I wait in suspense to see if fight filler bullshit like Goku hanging off a cliff, and dancing cheek to cheek with Vegeta will be left intact.

What is that all about?!
There is actually a filler that spends time showing Goku hanging off a cliff, like literally? (when he could let go and fly back up?)
And... I guess "dancing cheek to cheek" with Vegeta is something that happens during their battle and they end up being cheek to cheek somehow? (seems like a surprising position)


Yep, during his battle with Vegeta, Goku is just hanging off a cliff. Same thing happened during the Freeza arc, Kai wisely cut it out, hopefully they'll do the same here. The cheeks to cheek scene is just dumb, it's Goku and Vegeta filler inside Buu.

A lot of the fight inside Buu might as well in filler. I'm glad the thing with the crying white worm things is out. WTF was that?

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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby thekingfallsdown » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:22 pm

A lot of the fight inside Buu might as well in filler. I'm glad the thing with the crying white worm things is out. WTF was that?


I realize that was filler, and it was really weird... But at least in the dub, that provided a very hilarious reaction from Vegeta haha
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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby SingleFringe&Sparks » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:45 pm

thekingfallsdown wrote:
A lot of the fight inside Buu might as well in filler. I'm glad the thing with the crying white worm things is out. WTF was that?


I realize that was filler, and it was really weird... But at least in the dub, that provided a very hilarious reaction from Vegeta haha

Yeah if anything, the dub always gives Vegeta funny reactions off script reactions to things. Though I always thought things like the Saiyan bargin sale was a dub-line. I seemed like something strange for him to say. I'd expect Gohan or Yamcha to say something like that.

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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby Hujio » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:05 am

More new episode titles are up, as published in Saikyō Jump. That said, we're starting to get some discrepancies between the episode titles being published by Shueisha and the actual broadcast titles. I've been noticing it for a while, but now it's becoming pretty obvious. Two weeks ago in Weekly Shōnen Jump they also printed upcoming episode titles, only this upcoming week's actual broadcast title (episode 108) was never mentioned. Even in this month's Saikyō Jump it was completely overlooked. Until the next episode preview was shown the other day, that specific title had never appeared anywhere. And the episode before that (107) had its episode halfway rewritten for the broadcast. It appears that Toei has been slightly adjusting things just prior to broadcast, and Shueisha hasn't been kept in the loop.

So, I'm gonna throw out a theory. I may be way off base, but based on what we know, I'm pretty confident it's accurate. I believe Toei is cutting back a bit and drawing things out more than they had originally planned. I'm under the assumption that Shueisha is using an older list of episode titles created by Toei, but Toei has recently been changing things after it goes to print. But, why would Toei start inserting episodes in-between already established episodes? Let me set it up a bit, based on what I think Toei was thinking. Toei wasn't planning to use the show in Japan at all, but then (and this is an assumption) Fuji TV approaches them saying they need something to replace Toriko. Prior to that Toei, which seems rather obvious at this point, wasn't putting much effort or money into the remastering since it was intended for an international-only release. Why would they put tons of effort into something they were just gonna ship overseas? They stood to make much more of a profit by putting little effort into it, at the time. My theory is, the first 5 or so episodes were all ready to go and edited. They were stuck with those as-is. But now that it's airing in Japan and they can personally charge a fee and create more home video releases, both in Japan and internationally, why not add more episodes? Say, up to 69 episodes? While not conclusive, this seems evident with the recent reduction in pacing and odd changes in episode titles (considering this didn't happen with the first iteration of Kai).

So yeah... super well planned out.
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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby Flame Dragon » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:50 am

Hujio wrote:More new episode titles are up, as published in Saikyō Jump. That said, we're starting to get some discrepancies between the episode titles being published by Shueisha and the actual broadcast titles. I've been noticing it for a while, but now it's becoming pretty obvious. Two weeks ago in Weekly Shōnen Jump they also printed upcoming episode titles, only this upcoming week's actual broadcast title (episode 108) was never mentioned. Even in this month's Saikyō Jump it was completely overlooked. Until the next episode preview was shown the other day, that specific title had never appeared anywhere. And the episode before that (107) had its episode halfway rewritten for the broadcast. It appears that Toei has been slightly adjusting things just prior to broadcast, and Shueisha hasn't been kept in the loop.

So, I'm gonna throw out a theory. I may be way off base, but based on what we know, I'm pretty confident it's accurate. I believe Toei is cutting back a bit and drawing things out more than they had originally planned. I'm under the assumption that Shueisha is using an older list of episode titles created by Toei, but Toei has recently been changing things after it goes to print. But, why would Toei start inserting episodes in-between already established episodes? Let me set it up a bit, based on what I think Toei was thinking. Toei wasn't planning to use the show in Japan at all, but then (and this is an assumption) Fuji TV approaches them saying they need something to replace Toriko. Prior to that Toei, which seems rather obvious at this point, wasn't putting much effort or money into the remastering since it was intended for an international-only release. Why would they put tons of effort into something they were just gonna ship overseas? They stood to make much more of a profit by putting little effort into it, at the time. My theory is, the first 5 or so episodes were all ready to go and edited. They were stuck with those as-is. But now that it's airing in Japan and they can personally charge a fee and create more home video releases, both in Japan and internationally, why not add more episodes? Say, up to 69 episodes? While not conclusive, this seems evident with the recent reduction in pacing and odd changes in episode titles (considering this didn't happen with the first iteration of Kai).

So yeah... super well planned out.


Predictable really. I throught this from the first moment we heard Kai was going to air in Japan.

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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby Hujio » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:04 am

Flame Dragon wrote:Predictable really. I thought this from the first moment we heard Kai was going to air in Japan.

Yeah, I'm not surprised by it either, but now I feel there's more evidence. The whole thing's just a mess, really.
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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby Blade » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:57 am

The one problem I have with that theory is that the '69 Episodes' total first came from Sabat at a Convention absolutely ages ago. The notion of the series being around 'half' of the Z episode count only came to light recently, before the '69' number cropped up again. It seems difficult to believe that Toei provided Shueisha with an episode title list so old as to pre-date Sabat's quoted episode total - which was stated something like a year and half ago.

However, the theory might also explain the mystery regarding the progress of the Funimation dub. It could well be that the guys at Funimation were given a batch of episodes to work with, started working on them, and then Toei stopped them in their tracks by recalling the original batch. It could well be that Sabat's admission that they hadn't started dubbing the Buu arc of Kai could be true, in the sense that they may have had to scrap what had been done previously due to Toei totally changing the goalposts by adding more content and stretching things out.

I'm still of the opinion that the explanation is fairly simple, in that the change in domestic broadcast plans made Toei flick the 'stop' switch on anything that was happening around the world in other dubs. It's clear that with the change in plans, they wanted to offer a domestic home video release before anywhere else in the world.
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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby MR.Mark » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:54 am

So it's looks like we'll have to go from the average editing style of two episode of Z= one episode of Kai, to one and a half episodes of Z= the rest of the Kai Buu arc? Disappointing to say the least but I'll hope for the best.

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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby BlazingFiddlesticks » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:55 pm

Cold Skin wrote:
MR.Mark wrote:I wait in suspense to see if fight filler bullshit like Goku hanging off a cliff, and dancing cheek to cheek with Vegeta will be left intact.

What is that all about?!
There is actually a filler that spends time showing Goku hanging off a cliff, like literally? (when he could let go and fly back up?)
And... I guess "dancing cheek to cheek" with Vegeta is something that happens during their battle and they end up being cheek to cheek somehow? (seems like a surprising position)


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Oh speak of the... DBZ episode 275, folks!



On one hand it's one of the trippiest episodes in the series, which fits very much with Buu, but then weird choices like that come up.
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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby DBZ_Lee » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:30 pm

Hujio wrote:More new episode titles are up, as published in Saikyō Jump. That said, we're starting to get some discrepancies between the episode titles being published by Shueisha and the actual broadcast titles. I've been noticing it for a while, but now it's becoming pretty obvious. Two weeks ago in Weekly Shōnen Jump they also printed upcoming episode titles, only this upcoming week's actual broadcast title (episode 108) was never mentioned. Even in this month's Saikyō Jump it was completely overlooked. Until the next episode preview was shown the other day, that specific title had never appeared anywhere. And the episode before that (107) had its episode halfway rewritten for the broadcast. It appears that Toei has been slightly adjusting things just prior to broadcast, and Shueisha hasn't been kept in the loop.

So, I'm gonna throw out a theory. I may be way off base, but based on what we know, I'm pretty confident it's accurate. I believe Toei is cutting back a bit and drawing things out more than they had originally planned. I'm under the assumption that Shueisha is using an older list of episode titles created by Toei, but Toei has recently been changing things after it goes to print. But, why would Toei start inserting episodes in-between already established episodes? Let me set it up a bit, based on what I think Toei was thinking. Toei wasn't planning to use the show in Japan at all, but then (and this is an assumption) Fuji TV approaches them saying they need something to replace Toriko. Prior to that Toei, which seems rather obvious at this point, wasn't putting much effort or money into the remastering since it was intended for an international-only release. Why would they put tons of effort into something they were just gonna ship overseas? They stood to make much more of a profit by putting little effort into it, at the time. My theory is, the first 5 or so episodes were all ready to go and edited. They were stuck with those as-is. But now that it's airing in Japan and they can personally charge a fee and create more home video releases, both in Japan and internationally, why not add more episodes? Say, up to 69 episodes? While not conclusive, this seems evident with the recent reduction in pacing and odd changes in episode titles (considering this didn't happen with the first iteration of Kai).

So yeah... super well planned out.


Hi all,

I think Hujio is onto something here. A number of weeks ago, (after I saw the pacing for the first few episodes were lightning fast, with very little room to breathe between scenes) I contacted Ryuji Kochi San, who is Vice President of Toei Animation Europe.
I asked him if the episode count of 69 was accurate, and he told me the following:

There is a difference between international version and japan market version. internation is 69 eps. For japan is still not it confirm, that is what I know.


Image

Now, it would seem that the Japanese decided that they weren't keen on airing it for the full 69 week term in the beginning (possibly due to the lack of popularity in the saga over there), and perhaps were looking to cut it right down to half, which Nozawa mentioned (and was promptly removed almost immediately after being posted).
The first few episodes were suffering from some radically aggressive editing, leaving little to no room whatsoever between scenes, and I believe that this could be due to Toei Japan wanting to streamline as much as possible to lower the episode count.

I think the "missing" episodes listed in Shueisha publications could be down to the fact that if the pacing would have continued as quickly as they started, they would have reached the point where they are at now, an episode or 2 earlier.
Meaning, the episode "Don’t Underestimate a Super Saiyan! Vegeta and Goku’s Full Throttle Power!" would be relevant this week, instead of next.

My theory is, that they realized after the first few episodes that they simply couldn't continue to cut at that pace, it looked far too rushed, and at times, unwatchable, so they decided to edit the fifth episode so that for the next episode they could start using the "International Version" and would simply continue then on with those episodes instead.
Giving us the pacing we have now - much more better, breathing space between scenes, and not rushing it. I think it'll finish at around 66 in Japan, unless they start editing aggressively again later on.

Our version will more than likely retain the filler fight content (meaning some episodes will only cover maybe 1 chapter if it's action packed). But as long as they remove the horrible filler inside of Buu, and the otherworld scenes, I will be very happy with that.
I just hope they sort out the final battle - Vegeta only fights Buu once, not twice. Hopefully they can edit the footage so they remove Goku collapsing & Vegeta stepping in. (in the 30 second trailer, Goku is on the point of collapse, but fires the Kamehameha instead, hopefully they'll edit it so that the scene is backward - Buu fires Ki at Goku, then he responds with the Kamehameha).

Anyhow, that's how I see it. Thanks for reading, and have a nice evening.

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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby Valerius Dover » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:42 pm

Well, that just gave us more questions rather than answer anything. :crazy:

How is the Japanese version going to be shorter? It's the original, so it has to be either longer or the same length as international versions, right?
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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby DBZ_Lee » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:50 pm

Valerius Dover wrote:Well, that just gave us more questions rather than answer anything. :crazy:

How is the Japanese version going to be shorter? It's the original, so it has to be either longer or the same length as international versions, right?


I think it is because they are actually editing the "International Version" (69) not the original (92).

The Majin Buu Arc isn't very popular in Japan, and as a result was probably the reason they never gave it the "Kai" treatment in the first place. However, it is extremely well liked over here in the West, which is the reason why they produced it - for the "International Market".
As we know, the only reason it is airing over there at all is because they needed a replacement for Toriko.

Hence why I think they weren't keen on airing it for the full 69 week term, and tried to get it done in around the 50 mark. But of course, all of this is complete guess work by myself, and I could be totally wrong and it'll finish by next April/early May.

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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby Freeza Soldier #156 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:02 pm

This whole thing really is a mess isn't it? I'm really hoping it will turn out to just be the 48 episodes (4 box sets) that are currently announced for home release. If it does turn out to be that, then it would match nicely with the home releases of the other arcs that were all 4 box sets.

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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby Naruto6583 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:06 pm

you aren't kidding at least with the first iliteration of kai they for the most part knew how many episodes they were gonna do

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Re: Buu Saga Kai

Postby sintzu » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:41 am

Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:I'm really hoping it will turn out to just be the 48 episodes (4 box sets) that are currently announced for home release.


If the current announced 111-112 episode names are true then it's safe to say that it will be 48 cause there is no way they can stretch the rest of the arc up to 69


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