Kai Episode 3 (19 April 2009)

[Herms]

(Looking back, I guess this post doesn’t really relate very well to Kendamu and Mike’s posts, since I don’t think they were really condemning anyone, but I’m posting it anyway because I think it’s a point worth making in general. That, and I already went through all the effort of typing it up.)

While I get where you two are coming from, I think phrasing it as you having “more important things to worry about” is rather condescending, since it implies that the people complaining about this censorship don’t have anything better to do. Surely it’s possible to be upset about something without it being the most important thing in your life. I think in discussions like these, we often overestimate and exaggerate other peoples’…level of emotion and investment? I’m not sure how to phrase that. Basically, what I mean is that this is a DragonBall forum, and so while everyone here has a whole life completely outside the series and this forum, whenever they come here they only talk about DragonBall. And so while each person knows that they themselves have a life outside DragonBall, they don’t get to see everyone else’s non-DragonBall life. I think that this makes it easy in arguments to see others as being obsessive or incessantly whiny. After all, while from your perspective you always just see them complaining, from their perspective, coming on the forum to complain about a bad DragonBall product is just a tiny part of their lives.

So while its fine for you to not care about this censorship, don’t say that it’s because you have more important things to worry about. I think it’s safe to say that everyone here has more important things to worry about than DragonBall. It’s just that this isn’t the place to worry about them. This is a DragonBall forum; it’s natural to see people here worry about DragonBall. Just don’t assume that’s all they ever worry about.

Edit:

I guess it helps when you have other things to worry about... and that's not to take anything away from those that are truly upset and outraged. I'm sure they have other important things too.

Argh...stupid Hujio, saying everything I was trying to say in two sentences. Carnsarnitt!

[VegettoEX]

(Looking back, I guess this post doesn’t really relate very well to Kendamu and Mike’s posts, since I don’t think they were really condemning anyone, but I’m posting it anyway because I think it’s a point worth making in general. That, and I already went through all the effort of typing it up.)

While I get where you two are coming from, I think phrasing it as you having “more important things to worry about” is rather condescending, since it implies that the people complaining about this censorship don’t have anything better to do. Surely it’s possible to be upset about something without it being the most important thing in your life. I think in discussions like these, we often overestimate and exaggerate other peoples’…level of emotion and investment? I’m not sure how to phrase that. Basically, what I mean is that this is a DragonBall forum, and so while everyone here has a whole life completely outside the series and this forum, whenever they come here they only talk about DragonBall. And so while each person knows that they themselves have a life outside DragonBall, they don’t get to see everyone else’s non-DragonBall life. I think that this makes it easy in arguments to see others as being obsessive or incessantly whiny. After all, while from your perspective you always just see them complaining, from their perspective, coming on the forum to complain about a bad DragonBall product is just a tiny part of their lives.

So while its fine for you to not care about this censorship, don’t say that it’s because you have more important things to worry about. I think it’s safe to say that everyone here has more important things to worry about than DragonBall. It’s just that this isn’t the place to worry about them. This is a DragonBall forum; it’s natural to see people here worry about DragonBall. Just don’t assume that’s all they ever worry about.

Wonderful points to make, and I hope it didn't come across that way.

I guess what I was attempting to explain was how my approach to dealing with the issues are different for me, personally than how I would have dealt with them back in 1998 when I first started running the site. I am at a point in my life where it doesn't affect me on this crazy visceral level any time I see something censored in my favorite show. Like I've said time and time again, I don't agree with it, and I don't like it... and therefore have no problem with others taking it to higher discussion levels than I would prefer to do on my own time/terms. In fact, I really like reading through and hearing what everyone else has to say. I encourage it, and hopefully you all know that!

Don't take my "OMGNEWHOUSELEAVEMEALONE! (ohbythewaykaiisontv)" to mean "I LOVE IT when blood is taken out!"

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

....

Well, I'm confused. Ah well.

ANYWAY. I have plenty of other things to worry about, considering college courses don't pass themselves, and in fact they generally work against you passing.

But Daizenshuu EX is my "Dragon Ball Time". When the podcast came out, it became my weekly hour in which I could be a Dragon Ball fan before I went back to other important life things.

Listening to the podcast makes me feel like a fanboy again, same with the forums. So, I'm gonna take it to that other level.

Hope I haven't seemed to abrasive to everybody.

[Saiyavenger2941]

....

Well, I'm confused. Ah well.

ANYWAY. I have plenty of other things to worry about, considering college courses don't pass themselves, and in fact they generally work against you passing.

But Daizenshuu EX is my "Dragon Ball Time". When the podcast came out, it became my weekly hour in which I could be a Dragon Ball fan before I went back to other important life things.

Listening to the podcast makes me feel like a fanboy again, same with the forums. So, I'm gonna take it to that other level.

Hope I haven't seemed to abrasive to everybody. ;)

I second this notion, completely.

[Coola Yagami]

So.. does anyone have any pics of those new added frames? The only one I think was new were the lighting effects and such used when Gohan was flying into Raditz.

Um.. anyone?

[Super Ghost Kamikaze]

So.. does anyone have any pics of those new added frames? The only one I think was new were the lighting effects and such used when Gohan was flying into Raditz.

Um.. anyone?

Which frames are you looking for specifically?

Are you looking for these? This comparison was used a few pages back in the 90-some page "Z being redone for HD?" thread, but I'm not sure if that's what you mean....

[Hujio]

So.. does anyone have any pics of those new added frames? The only one I think was new were the lighting effects and such used when Gohan was flying into Raditz.

Um.. anyone?

Well, I can tell you that there was more than just that scene. From what I can tell, there were a total of 14 scenes with new animation, though I've lumped all of the blood and hole edits into one scene. All the pictures I have will go up with our Kanzentai review of episode 3.

[Kendamu]

EDIT: What Mike said.

I feel the same way. He just said it better and probably isn't typing on a PSP like I am.

I got most of my rage out ten years ago complaining over a dub of my favorite show that got worse just to spite me. I personally look at things a little differently now. Do I like censorship? No. I'm not about to get too worked up over it these days, though.

[FuniYamcha]

Completely. It is a separate entity. We can take the Kai path, or the Z.

I'm going to play devil's advocate and say this. If we are to treat Kai as a separate entity, then I can at least complain about the cropping of it, because I really doubt Toei is going to release an uncropped version of it. No big deal to me, but the cropping thing was equivalent to a kick in the crotch to a significant amount of people for Funi's remastering. Techincally, if Toei doesn't release an uncropped version of Kai, and you guys keep saying "treat it like a separate entity" then I'd say it's just as bad as Funi...since I more than likely won't be able to own a 4:3 version of this new show.

[anomaly]

Just finished Ep 3, it was a good one. I wasn't really prepared for the censorship, but I can live with it. It's still better as the german version of DBZ I had to endure 8 years ago (with 2 to 3 seconds cut out in some scenes).
Did anyone noticed that Piccolo has purple blood now?
The updated frames in the fighting scenes where awesome and stereo sound is a total win.
And finally we got the right colored Vegeta (yeah!!), I was a bit worried after seeing episode 2....
Afterall I'm pretty happy with what kai looks like, pacing is nice, the voice actors are ok (except for Kame-sennin and Nappa)....
can't wait for the next episode!!!

[Kendamu]

FuniYamcha: You could say that if you're comparing Kai to the Z-Anime. Comparing it to the manga panels, though, it works for me. Besides, Kai was intended for 16:9 all along, being a seperate thing and all. Feel free to complain, though. I'm just pointing out how that logic can be used against you.

[Tsukento]

Using my mad kanji looking up skills, I discovered his name is Inada Tetsu. A listing of his other works can be found here (it doesn't list him as being in Kai on ANN, but Wikipedia does). Seems like he done a lot of minor roles, though some bigger ones are in there among all the roles like "man in episode 106 of Sailor Moon"

Aaaah, now I see why I recognize his voice.

Mr. 1, Brogy and Burgess from One Piece.

[Gozar]

OK, I'm going to chime in here with my thoughts on the editing. I despise it, to me it's not a matter of what it looks like in the Manga. But rather what's better in my opinion. I mean I think most of us will agree that we love how detailed Toriyama's drawings were when Gohan was slaughtering the Cell Jrs. The editing just looked really bad and fake, kind of like what it looks like in the Video Game cut scenes year after year. I wouldn't have as big of a problem if it actually did look more like the Manga. But this just made Goku and Raditz look burnt rather than having a gaping hole in their chests.

I'm sorry, but this editing is completely unnecessary. It's not like standards have changed for Japanese TV. Come on, the show that directly follows DragonBall Kai is one piece. Without a doubt the bloodiest Shonen series I know. I think of fights like Luffy against Lucci, near the end of that right. Right before Luffy's Gomu Gomu No Jet Gattling, Luffy takes a blast to the face and blood splatters like nuts.

Uhg, anyway. Now that Raditz is done for the series I have full confidence in saying that I really like Shigeru Chiba a lot better now than in 1989. I like the way his voice sounds better now, it suits Raditz more IMO. Also I think his acting is leagues better.

On the flip side, I still don't feel that Toshio Furukawa is fully into character yet. He still sounds off as Piccolo when Piccolo's talking normally and/or lower. The acting's fine, but the voice feels off.

[JulieYBM]

Honestly, my favorite part was the camaraderie Gokû and Piccolo had. I thought that Nozawa and Furukawa were playing off each other quite nice.

[jda95]

Completely. It is a separate entity. We can take the Kai path, or the Z.

I'm going to play devil's advocate and say this. If we are to treat Kai as a separate entity, then I can at least complain about the cropping of it, because I really doubt Toei is going to release an uncropped version of it. No big deal to me, but the cropping thing was equivalent to a kick in the crotch to a significant amount of people for Funi's remastering. Techincally, if Toei doesn't release an uncropped version of Kai, and you guys keep saying "treat it like a separate entity" then I'd say it's just as bad as Funi...since I more than likely won't be able to own a 4:3 version of this new show.

I'm getting so confused by all of this.

But this new show was intended to be seen in widescreen. FUNimation has presented no other option to get the original show (at least not now), and Z was always meant to be fullscreen. This is not just blatant cropping, Toei is reframing shots.

I don't know enough about Kai to have a good argument.

[DemonRin]

Completely. It is a separate entity. We can take the Kai path, or the Z.

I'm going to play devil's advocate and say this. If we are to treat Kai as a separate entity, then I can at least complain about the cropping of it, because I really doubt Toei is going to release an uncropped version of it. No big deal to me, but the cropping thing was equivalent to a kick in the crotch to a significant amount of people for Funi's remastering. Techincally, if Toei doesn't release an uncropped version of Kai, and you guys keep saying "treat it like a separate entity" then I'd say it's just as bad as Funi...since I more than likely won't be able to own a 4:3 version of this new show.

I'm getting so confused by all of this.

But this new show was intended to be seen in widescreen. FUNimation has presented no other option to get the original show (at least not now), and Z was always meant to be fullscreen. This is not just blatant cropping, Toei is reframing shots.

I don't know enough about Kai to have a good argument.

Yes, Kai is a complete Re-framing.
Yes some shots are cropped, but some shots they do MORE than that.
During the Fight, there was a scene where originally, Raditz and Son weren't in the frame together. It was two separate shots of them one after the other. In Kai, when they re-framed the shot they didn't crop this scene AT ALL, they took the two shots and combined them so Son and Piccolo are now in the Frame together.
This is exactly what I've been saying is probably going to happen. When they can crop and you only lose a bit of sky or ground, or just the characters' Stomachs, then they Crop, but during the fights when more important stuff gets lost, they are much more creative with the re-framing and redrawing.
there's also the completely new frames we're getting.
Kai is being MADE for 16:9. But that's the point, Toei has Made DBZ available in 4:3 and aren't discontinuing it. if you want 4:3, get DBZ. If you want 16:9, Get Kai

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

The Ad Campaign pretty much lied to people by calling it "Dragon Ball Z: The way it was MEANT to be seen" and showed Movie Footage to prove their point (the movies WERE meant to be seen in Widescreen, unlike the series)

Lying? How? Some one please explain it to me.

[B]

The Ad Campaign pretty much lied to people by calling it "Dragon Ball Z: The way it was MEANT to be seen" and showed Movie Footage to prove their point (the movies WERE meant to be seen in Widescreen, unlike the series)

Lying? How? Some one please explain it to me.

Dragon Ball Z was not meant to be seen with black bars at the top and bottom of the footage or with loss of outline detail due to poor remastering. I'm also pretty sure they actually plastered grain on to a Raditz shot in order to make the remastered footage look better in comparison.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

If he doesn't have a hole in his chest, what exactly was so devastating about the blast that it would cost him his life?

Surely the mighty Goku could recover from a burn, no?

Think of a lightsaber wound. Surely, have you watched The Phantom Menace? Darth Maul delivered a killing blow via lightsaber to Qui Gon Jinn. I have seen a few scenes involving lightsaber wounds. Most notable wounds are Anakin cutting off Count Dooku's hands and you could see smokes coming from them and Luke cutting off Darth Vader's hand at the conclusion of Return of the Jed and there is smoke. So what I am trying to say is that if Makankosappo and lightsabers deliver a burning wounds, then it can never be recovered. The wounds are so deep that it is impossible to heal. Qui Gon and Son Goku both suffer from severe wounds thus perished.

[Tsukento]

It's not like standards have changed for Japanese TV. Come on, the show that directly follows DragonBall Kai is one piece. Without a doubt the bloodiest Shonen series I know. I think of fights like Luffy against Lucci, near the end of that right. Right before Luffy's Gomu Gomu No Jet Gattling, Luffy takes a blast to the face and blood splatters like nuts.

On the contrary, times have changed. During the encounter between Law and Kid in One Piece, Law gives Kid the finger in the manga. In the anime, however, he just gives him a smug look. Same animation company and network as DBZ, which had its share of middle fingers.