Dub Watch Through Suggestions?

[Akumaito Beam]

I've decided to watch through DB/DBZ/DBGT with a friend but he wants to view the English version. I was wondering which way to watch the dub would be best?

No matter which version of the dub you're watching it's going to be riddled with inconsistencies. The 276 episode count is censored and has a voice change mid way through, the 291 uncut has the 2005 ultimate uncut voices fused with the old 2001-2003 voices and the Kai dub doesn't match the voices in Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball GT.

So It's kind of a toss up in the air, I figure the DB/DBGT dub voices match the old DBZ dub so should I go with that one? That being said overall DBZ Kai is more accurate but it doesn't have a Boo saga. My only goal is not to have too jarring of a time watching the show.

[matt0044]

Try Dragon Ball's dub, then Kai's dub. The former isn't too bad and the latter will be better.

[TheBlackPaladin]

My guess is you're going to get recommendations all over the place. As I am in a similar situation with a friend who's watching the series for the first time, I went ahead and did a lot of date cross-referencing. Using the release dates of the movies in Japan, cross-referencing those dates with the release dates in Japan of the closest TV episodes (for both DB and DBZ), and guesstimating where the closest TV episodes would be in the Kai dub based on episode content...here's what I believe should be the proper viewing order:

------------WITHOUT MOVIES------------

1) DB: The uncut FUNimation dub. Entirely.

2) DBZ: a. Watch "Bardock, Father of Goku" TV Special.
b. Watch the uncut Kai dub all the way up to episode 54.
c. Watch "The History of Trunks" TV Special.
d. Resume the Kai dub up to episode 97.
b. Finally, finish by watching the uncut FUNimation dub of DBZ at episode 194 (when Trunks goes back to his own timeline), until the remainder of the series.

3) GT: a. Watch the uncut FUNimation dub up to episode 39.
b. Watch "A Hero's Legacy" TV Special.
c. Resume the uncut FUNimation dub for the remainder of the series.


As for the movies...here it's a little bit tougher. Technically the movies are non-canon, therefore they don't count, and exist in their own little "what-if" universe. However, be too random about it, and a few spoilers (mostly relating to power statuses and physical appearances of the characters) will be given away. Again using the "date cross-reference" method, here's what I came up with.


MOVIES

1) "The Path To Power" can be watched after DB episode 39.
2) "Curse of the Blood Rubies" can be watched after DB episode 41.
3) "Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle" can be watched after DB episode 66.
4) "Mystical Adventure" can be watched after DB episode 118.
5) "The Dead Zone" can be watched after Kai episode 5.
6) "The World's Strongest" can be watched after Kai episode 18.
7) "The Tree of Might" can be watched after Kai episode 24.
8 ) "Lord Slug" can be watched after Kai episode 39.
9) "Cooler's Revenge" can be watched after Kai episode 53.*
10) "The Return of Cooler" can be watched after Kai episode 61.
11) "Super Android 13" can be watched after Kai episode 70.
12) "Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan" can be watched after Kai episode 87.
13) "Bojack Unbound" can be watched after Kai episode 97.
14) "Broly: Second Coming" can be watched after DBZ episode 220.
15) "Bio-Broly" can be watched after DBZ episode 232.
16) "Fusion Reborn" can be watched after DBZ episode 258.
17) "Wrath of the Dragon" can be watched after DBZ episode 270.


SO...if you want to include the movies (while explaining that they exist in an "it doesn't count" universe)...then the final, proper viewing list is THIS:

------------WITH MOVIES------------


1) DB: a. The uncut FUNimation dub up to episode 39.
b. Watch "The Path To Power."
c. Resume the DB dub up up to episode 41.
d. Watch "The Curse of the Blood Rubies."
e. Resume the DB dub up to episode 66.
f. Watch "Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle."
g. Resume the DB dub up to episode 118.
h. Watch "Mystical Adventure."
i. Complete the remainder of the DB dub.

2) DBZ: a. Watch "Bardock, Father of Goku" TV Special.*
b. Watch the uncut Kai dub up to episode 5.
c. Watch "The Dead Zone."
d. Resume the uncut Kai dub up to episode 18.
e. Watch "The World's Strongest."
f. Resume the uncut Kai dub up to episode 24.
g. Watch "The Tree of Might."
h. Resume the uncut Kai dub up to episode 39.
i. Watch "Lord Slug."
j. Resume the uncut Kai dub up to episode 53.
k. Watch "Cooler's Revenge."
l. Resume the uncut Kai dub up to episode 54...so....one episode, I guess....
m. Watch "The History of Trunks" TV Special.
n. Resume the uncut Kai dub up to episode 61.
o. Watch "The Return of Cooler."
p. Resume the uncut Kai dub up to episode 70.
q. Watch "Super Android 13."
r. Resume the uncut Kai dub up to episode 87.
s. Watch "Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan."
t. Resume the uncut Kai dub up to episode 97.
u. Watch "Bojack Unbound."
v. Begin the uncut DBZ dub at episode 194, and watch up to episode 220.
w. Watch "Broly: Second Coming."
x. Resume the uncut DBZ dub up to episode 232.
y. Watch "Bio-Broly."
z. Resume the uncut DBZ dub up to episode 258.
aa. Watch "Fusion Reborn."
ab. Resume the uncut DBZ dub up to episode 270.
ac. Watch "Wrath of the Dragon."
ad. Conclude DBZ by watching the remainder of the uncut DBZ dub.

3) GT: a. Watch the uncut FUNimation dub up to episode 39.
b. Watch "A Hero's Legacy" TV Special.
c. Resume the uncut FUNimation dub for the remainder of the series.



*I figured, since you'll be starting DBZ with Kai, it only made sense to see the entirety of the story of Bardock.
**Technically, it should be a few episodes earlier, but it seems odd to me that Japan would release the first Cooler movie before Freeza was killed, so I took some liberty in that one case. To me, it makes more sense to see this movie AFTER Freeza's death.

FURTHER NOTES:
a. In the case of DBZ, its movies and TV specials, GT, and it's TV special, you'll have an option of listening to either the dub score or the original Japanese musical score. I know there are some people who don't like to watch the Japanese score with the dub, but I honestly can't relate to that. Especially since you'll be starting off with DB, and the FUNimation in-house dub of DB never had a dub score, so it's best to stick to Kikuchi's score for consistency's sake.
b. While I do like the Ocean dub, I did not include it here for the sake of remaining with as consistent a voice cast as possible (even though, as you noted, it's impossible to go through the dub with a completely consistent voice cast).

[LiamKav]

The voice changes between DB and Kai aren't too bad. You will only ever have one child Goku (outside of brief flashbacks) and one child Gohan. You'll have flipped back to the original DBZ dub by the time you get to 16 year-old Gohan, so again, just once voice. The biggest one will be Bulma, and Freeza in the Bardock special (oh god, how I want them to redub that with Chris Ayres.)

[TheBlackPaladin]

...(oh god, how I want them to redub that with Chris Ayres.)

ME TOO! Every time I hear Chris Ayers as Freeza, I just smile and say out loud, "MAN he's perfect for this character!" While I fully understand that there's no way this will happen, I would very much like to see that TV special re-adapted and re-dubbed.

If someone is determined to watch only the dub, then Chris Ayers alone is reason enough to necessitate the inclusion of the Kai dub in the viewing experience. Yes, it will be a tad more on the inconsistent side as far as voice changes are concerned, but Anime News Network called his performance "one of the best dub performances in the last decade," and I fully agree. Not one to be missed.

...Not to mention that the acting and writing in Kai are much better. If you start off with the Z dub, then Seasons 1 and 2 will be pretty good (still not quite at Kai's level of quality), but beginning at episode 68, when the dreaded "Season 3" era begins, you will find a very noticeable drop in quality, for both the acting and the writing. That, more than anything else, will be jarring.

To Akumaito Beam, I would echo LiamKav's words that, if you watch Kai as a substitute for (roughly) the first half of Z, then the only voice "change" will be that of Bulma. By the time Kai is over, Gohan has become a teenager voiced by Kyle Hebert anyway, so the Colleen Clinkenbeard/Stephanie Nadolny issue is irrelevant by that point. Unless you include the movies, of course, but as they exist in a non-canon universe, it might be easy to just tell your friend that Colleen Clinkenbeard plays Gohan for the TV series, and Stephanie Nadolny plays him for the movies.

[Zephyr]

Show him the full old FUNi dub, with the subs on. See how long he lasts having to see the dub pack dialog in where there is no talking in the subs, having to see just how corny and off the wall the dub dialog is in comparison to the subs.

It'd make a great drinking game too.

[shonenhikada]

Try Ocean Dub for episode 1- 47 of dbz then Fun for the rest of the saga, and I'm talking funi version from like 2000

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I think Black Paladin just posted the longest post I've ever seen on this forum. That's going into notepad for future reference.

Show him the full old FUNi dub, with the subs on. See how long he lasts having to see the dub pack dialog in where there is no talking in the subs, having to see just how corny and off the wall the dub dialog is in comparison to the subs.

It'd make a great drinking game too.

So "Purist jerkery Kazenshuu hopes to be above" is a valid answer to these things now? Duly noted.

It's not like you're not going to have that problem with the other three series. Regardless, if the Dragon Ball, Kai, Z-Buu, GT route is feasible, it is the ideal unless there's nostalgia or a demand for utter consistency involved.

[LiamKav]

...Not to mention that the acting and writing in Kai are much better. If you start off with the Z dub, then Seasons 1 and 2 will be pretty good (still not quite at Kai's level of quality), but beginning at episode 68, when the dreaded "Season 3" era begins, you will find a very noticeable drop in quality, for both the acting and the writing. That, more than anything else, will be jarring.

I hadn't thought of that, but I agree. Going from DragonBall to DBZKai, he'll notice a sudden spead up and a couple of voice changes, but mainly improvements for the better. When he drops "back down" to regular DBZ for the Buu arc, the voice will take a small hit, but only a bit, and from what I remember (it's been a while) the Buu arc is supposed to be fairly accurate, right? The Japanese score changes completely for the Buu arc anyway, so that's not an issue either. He'll have to get used to one eye catch for over a hundred episodes, rather than them changing every 4, but hey ho.

Of course, with Kai, you then get the question of which score to go with. If possible, I'd try and get the Yamamoto score for the first 4 parts. Then, at least, the score change happens during a break in the series (between the Freeza and Android arcs) rather than in the middle of one. Unless you want to go with the replaced score for the whole thing, but I'm not a fan...

[dprez]

(oh god, how I want them to redub that with Chris Ayres.)

O snap. Yea, he's great as Freeza. No joke, he's knocking on Ryusei Nakao's door with this performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWZoYjVNl1s

Anyway, you can't go wrong with the english Kai dub. For the Boo saga just watch the standard Funi Dub. The voice actors were much more experienced by then.

Show him the full old FUNi dub, with the subs on. See how long he lasts having to see the dub pack dialog in where there is no talking in the subs, having to see just how corny and off the wall the dub dialog is in comparison to the subs.

It'd make a great drinking game too.

Preach brother preach!

[Zestanor]

The Japanese score changes completely for the Buu arc anyway, so that's not an issue either.

Do you mean that the Buu arc Z music is completely changed from the 'Cha-La' era Z music? Because this isn't really correct; other than the sparse 'Cha-La Head-Cha-La' variations that get replaced with sparse 'We Gotta Power' variations, none of Kikuchi' score is completely removed for the Buu arc. The music that is played most often in an episode does generally come from the most recent movie, but everything from DB movie 1 through DBZ movie 13 is still fair game for Boo arc placement. (Of course, movie 13 music barely made it into the show...)

Since the episodes tend to draw from the most recently released movie, and each movie has its own motif, there is a noticeable progression of musical motifs thoughout the series. Honestly, I think the Kai replacement score botches this by equally sprinkling Kikuchi music from all the movies throughout its episodes (regardless of the current story arc.) That's the only reason I can think of to watch the Z dub over the Kai dub though.

[VegettoEX]

So "Purist jerkery Kazenshuu hopes to be above" is a valid answer to these things now? Duly noted.

I don't even know what this means, so I'm not sure if I should take offense to it. Should I?

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

So "Purist jerkery Kazenshuu hopes to be above" is a valid answer to these things now? Duly noted.

I don't even know what this means, so I'm not sure if I should take offense to it. Should I?

Well, to illustrate, I just don't see the point in going into a topic asking "Which order of dubs should I show a new viewer?" and answer "Punish a new viewer for doing the natural thing of wanting to watch it in their native language- despite that factoring Kai it's one that's gotten decent-to-spectacular adaptions of the entire animated canon (Collection of works, not story elements) almost across the board."

I suppose I took the post too seriously.

[Zephyr]

So "Purist jerkery Kazenshuu hopes to be above" is a valid answer to these things now? Duly noted.

I don't even know what this means, so I'm not sure if I should take offense to it. Should I?

Well, to illustrate, I just don't see the point in going into a topic asking "Which order of dubs should I show a new viewer?" and answer "Punish a new viewer for doing the natural thing of wanting to watch it in their native language- despite that factoring Kai it's one that's gotten decent-to-spectacular adaptions of the entire animated canon (Collection of works, not story elements) almost across the board."

How is that punishment in any way shape or form? The FUNi dub is the most well known and complete English dub out there, as far as I'm aware, so my suggestion was to go with that. I added the suggestion of putting subs on as well (if even available, that is), so it could also be illustrated how different said dub is to the original.

And I fail to see how pointing out facts like 'FUNi put in dialog where non was present in the original', and 'FUNi's scripts are more hammy and cheesy than the original' is supposed to be smug, purist, or snobby. That's like attacking someone for pointing out the issues with the Orange Bricks.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

How is that punishment in any way shape or form? The FUNi dub is the most well known and complete English dub out there, as far as I'm aware, so my suggestion was to go with that. I added the suggestion of putting subs on as well (if even available, that is), so it could also be illustrated how different said dub is to the original.

And there we go; I straight up misinterpreted you.

And I fail to see how pointing out facts like 'FUNi put in dialog where non was present in the original', and 'FUNi's scripts are more hammy and cheesy than the original' is supposed to be smug, purist, or snobby. That's like attacking someone for pointing out the issues with the Orange Bricks.

When you make a drinking game out of it that'd be over before it got anywhere.

Of course there's nothing wrong, just seems a bit too much micromanagement for an actual viewing. Probably why you'd have the subs on the first place.

[Zephyr]

And there we go; I straight up misinterpreted you.

Nothing wrong with misinterpretations, it happens.

Of course there's nothing wrong, just seems a bit too much micromanagement for an actual viewing. Probably why you'd have the subs on the first place.

Personally, I own the FUNi Dragon Boxes, so it's quite an easy task for me to put subs on with dub dialog, and having been a fan of both versions at one point or another it can be pretty entertaining to see both scripts running simultaneously. That's actually how a friend of mine, who I recently got into the series, is viewing it. I'm not sure if any of the other releases have such a capability so I can understand if that's not such an easy thing to do. And the drinking game comment was more of a suggestion for anyone who wanted to have fun re/watching the series or something.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Personally, I own the FUNi Dragon Boxes, so it's quite an easy task for me to put subs on with dub dialog, and having been a fan of both versions at one point or another it can be pretty entertaining to see both scripts running simultaneously. That's actually how a friend of mine, who I recently got into the series, is viewing it. I'm not sure if any of the other releases have such a capability so I can understand if that's not such an easy thing to do. And the drinking game comment was more of a suggestion for anyone who wanted to have fun re/watching the series or something.

Oh, I've done it myself. Makes comparing the two really easy, just struck me as a bit too much for a first time viewer. But then you have a friend whose doing it, so you learn something new everyday. I believe the orange bricks can do it too.

[desirecampbell]

"Punish a new viewer for doing the natural thing of wanting to watch it in their native language."

We don't want to punish a new viewer; which is why we don't suggest watching the dub.

Burn!

[VegettoEX]

Just to follow up on that slightly...

So it wasn't natural for me to want to watch the series NOT in English, but in Japanese, cuz it's a Japanese show...?

The overall consensus you'd get if you weren't limiting it to an English dub would be, yeah, watch it in Japanese. Consistent voice cast for the entire run, consistent composer and gradual introduction of new pieces for the entire run (minus GT of course), etc.

All the benefits that you are looking for, and none of the drawbacks. Except that whole "in English" thing you want. But hey, the subtitles are "in English"...!

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think the difference is that some people just don't like having to look at the subtitles, or even just watch a show not in their native language because they might feel as if they're missing something (e.g. little nuances in voices and whatnot).